Fel Flame should not be removed!

[Gardrenn]

Please keep fel flame and drain soul. Remove soulswap/malefic grasp. That is all.

[Deleted]

Yes, the interaction with our lvl 90 talents is another reason why this is a bad choice - but how do you conclude that KJC is to blame for them making this decision? Anyway, this is a shit change, we should definitely lobby for them to add FF back and that's it.

[Kryos]

Nobody will care or see your green fire anyway since we will get new ways to suppress the graphical effects from other players spells. I for one will turn them down to the absolute minimum/deactivate them. I hate the visual clutter WoW got over the years. Watch an old Vanilla raid video. That's how I want it to look like. Not a bright white chaos at the feets of a boss.

[Yuyuli]

I actually used Fel Flame and Soulshatter quite a bit, there are always situations...

Instead of them removing abilities like these how about they just finally fix the damn macros? 255 char limit? Just a bunch of Macros per char.. they are not stored on the server so why the hell are there so small limits.

[Deleted]

I've played a Warlock for years and almost never would use Fel Flame....Very situational and see's very little use. Same with Soulshatter why it's getting removed also.

If you've never used soulshatter your burst must not be optimal

[shinewaylee]

Playing mainly PvE Demonology, without KJC on any fights, I use carrion swarm a great deal more than fel flame. I'm crying more about the knockback/aoe interrupt utility than a spell you don't have to use if you can plan your movement at all well.

Also - it's freaking alpha patch notes people. You have ~6months or more to create forum threads and rally against this like people did for KJC if you feel so inclined.

Appreciate how significantly this could affect PvP though.

Yes,carrion swarm ,a nice spell in pvp, I just play destro and demo for pvp, and fel flame is vital for demo's fury.

[Danifilth]

One button to the whole,pve playes can keep it in spell set.
But without this button,pvp playes will lose much.

- - - Updated - - -



Pve playes perhaps never use FEAR, also should be removed?

Last time i used fear was in Karazan i really think that should be removed also.

[Jessicka]

Yes, the interaction with our lvl 90 talents is another reason why this is a bad choice - but how do you conclude that KJC is to blame for them making this decision? Anyway, this is a shit change, we should definitely lobby for them to add FF back and that's it.

Because so many people default to the talent (like Affliction has a choice), that its caused the spell to be flagged up as under utilised.

Not much different to the nerf to Void Ray and set bonus leading us Demo locks to not use that spell anymore.

Its about bad design decisions causing the very redundancy they're trying to fix, which is in turn making other abilities redundant.

[Deleted]

Because so many people default to the talent (like Affliction has a choice), that its caused the spell to be flagged up as under utilised.

Not much different to the nerf to Void Ray and set bonus leading us Demo locks to not use that spell anymore.

You don't know, you only assume. KJC is completely pointless on half of the fights in SoO, maybe useful on some more and only really good on 2-3. That's hardly "default".

[Jessicka]

You don't know, you only assume. KJC is completely pointless on half of the fights in SoO, maybe useful on some more and only really good on 2-3. That's hardly "default".

Depends on spec. Doesn't change that regardless of how optimal or otherwise it is, most Affliction and Destruction Warlocks default to it almost 100% of the time.

Maybe they could re add it as a talent to replace Mannoroth's Fury. I hate that talent even more.

[Alexieel]

Without Fel Flame, are you still going to use AD or MF? Destruction has -one- instant cast in order to plan before the execute.

Rain of Fire
Conflag

That are 2 GCDs for moving.

Arcane has only AB iirc?
Shadow has only SW:P and Halo
Ele has only his shocks and Lavaburstprocs, and every minute his flametongue totem.
Affli has only Corr and CoA, iirc?

Dont know about Moonkin, Firemage, Icemage and Demo (last one would use Demonic Touch, I guess?)

On fights with minor movement I guess AD will be better, in fights with longer and/or frequent movement we have KJC and in fights with massiv aoe, well MF.

[Tya]

So when people whine about PvP changes affecting PvE, we can point to this.

Because that's a pretty core PvP spell that's being removed right there.

[aviectus]

Nobody will care or see your green fire anyway since we will get new ways to suppress the graphical effects from other players spells. I for one will turn them down to the absolute minimum/deactivate them. I hate the visual clutter WoW got over the years. Watch an old Vanilla raid video. That's how I want it to look like. Not a bright white chaos at the feets of a boss.

i was thinking the same Vanilla /BC raids were fine, now it looks like mini nuclear explosions near boss with NO visual distinction over class spells... so SAD

[Yuyuli]

I really hope people in beta complain enough, neither Soulshatter nor Fel Flame is button bloat... they are useful abilities.

[Jessicka]

Rain of Fire
Conflag

That are 2 GCDs for moving.

Arcane has only AB iirc?
Shadow has only SW:P and Halo
Ele has only his shocks and Lavaburstprocs, and every minute his flametongue totem.
Affli has only Corr and CoA, iirc?

Dont know about Moonkin, Firemage, Icemage and Demo (last one would use Demonic Touch, I guess?)

On fights with minor movement I guess AD will be better, in fights with longer and/or frequent movement we have KJC and in fights with massiv aoe, well MF.

Well that's kinda how its meant to work, with Fel Flame being the trade off for the small amount of movements every encounter has. Without it, those small moves become a much bigger deal. It is a nerf therefore to AD and MF which were already barely competing as it stands.

[Deleted]

Last time i used fear was in Karazan i really think that should be removed also.

This guy gets it! No really dont let changes to the pvp-minigame affect pve anymore please.

[Deleted]

Depends on spec. Doesn't change that regardless of how optimal or otherwise it is, most Affliction and Destruction Warlocks default to it almost 100% of the time.

"citation needed"

[Jessicka]

"citation needed"

Subjective observations based on an awful lot of playing. Would love to see some data if you have anything counter to it.

[Deleted]

Subjective observations based on an awful lot of playing. Would love to see some data if you have anything counter to it.

I don't, but I seem to remember there was a tweet/blue post about Blizz seeing AD being rather popular in comparison to KJC. Also, my subjective observations are to the contrary (people use AD unless they are forced to go KJC by fights with ludicrous movement requirements, e.g. Blackfuse), which obv means that we can't reconcile our anecdotal "evidence" on this. But anyway, "regardless of how optimal or otherwise it is, most Affliction and Destruction Warlocks default to it almost 100% of the time" is such a strong statement, you can't just throw it around without accepting the burden of proof, your (well known) dislike for the talent notwithstanding.

[Jessicka]

I don't, but I seem to remember there was a tweet/blue post about Blizz seeing AD being rather popular in comparison to KJC. Also, my subjective observations are to the contrary (people use AD unless they are forced to go KJC by fights with ludicrous movement requirements, e.g. Blackfuse), which obv means that we can't reconcile our anecdotal "evidence" on this. But anyway, "regardless of how optimal or otherwise it is, most Affliction and Destruction Warlocks default to it almost 100% of the time" is such a strong statement, you can't just throw it around without accepting the burden of proof, your (well known) dislike for the talent notwithstanding.

Sounds like your anecdotal evidence is based on a very small sample size in your own Heroic difficulty raid. That's not at all representative. I do a lot of LFRs and Flexes, and I only ever seem to see players specced into KJC for everything.