Resto - 6.0 latest patch notes discussion

[Deleted]

Has anyone been able to trigger echo of the elements as resto by casting healing spells?
I couldn't get it to proc from healing spells, it seems to trigger only by using dps spells.

when I tested it, while not in group it didn't proc at all. But in raid tests it was proccing from heal spells.

[Koor]

When I used it a week or two ago It would proc 90% of the time on the first heal when combat started, never saw it proc off Elemental blast or other DPS spells myself.

when I tested it, while not in group it didn't proc at all. But in raid tests it was proccing from heal spells.

Ah it only procs while in combat. After entering combat, healing spells proc it as well.

[Aviators]

Next time there is a play with the blues, better vote for resto shaman

[seismo93]

From my experience so far raid testing bosses.

HST: Isn't worth the GCD to drop unless you have elemental damage to mitigate via glyph. Dropping this on a normal attempt ended with it doing 2-3% of my overall healing.

Chain heal: Is great but with the latest patch the mana cost skyrocketed and is now not spammable. To me this means UE might be actually worth using now to buff CH.

High tides: Chain heal not bouncing to people with riptide unless they are within range of the chain heal itself seems kind of silly and forces us to put our excess riptides exclusively on melee.

Healing rain: Is O.K. but conductivity is needed on most fights to keep it rolling (because it decimates our mana). The healing also seems a bit paltry in our healing breakdowns compared to live.

Ascendance: Doesn't do nearly as much as I think it should be doing. Possibly because of the changes to smart healing. I have no idea why but it seems to be underperforming.

Spirit-link: 90% of the time all the time it's amazing.

HTT: as expected is the best throughput cooldown out there right now because it isn't reliant upon channeling. Hit it and forget it.

Elemental blast: Since the mana nerfs we seem to be able to OOM ourselves in about 20 seconds of CH spamming. EB is supposed to help remedy that. In reality it's a stationary mana buff that we have to cast so we don't go oom. Other than doing some paltry damage and some secondary stats it's nothing more than a crutch in a terrible talent tier that needs revisiting.

Generally right now while testing if the fight goes long and everyone gets a chance to use their cooldowns Shaman's seem a little lackluster IMO. We fall behind 10-20% from other healers and without the health buff or mana tide totem it seems that we will be in a very niche position again next expansion. Some of the fights I tested shamans healing was just awful and we fell behind quite a bit more than the 10-20% I mentioned because of healing rain not being able to be utilized properly and high movement.

Who are shaman's falling behind? Who is wrecking the healing as far as we beta is telling us? Just curious.

[SaracenSz]

Who are shaman's falling behind? Who is wrecking the healing as far as we beta is telling us? Just curious.

I haven't beta tested with a monk at all but Priests (both specs), HPals, and RDruids currently have more output than us. Initially we can keep up but our mana issues and having to hard cast EB put us behind in the long term.

[Khai]

I've tried different approaches to encounters, and I feel nowhere near as powerful as other healers. I know for a fact I am not a bad healer(not bragging), I am confident in my abilities, yet I cannot keep up with the other healers. RNG plays a role when deciding whether or not to glyph Riptide or not and it is extremely frustrating. I can keep up and put out high output with Riptides rolling and spamming Chain Heal with Conductivity allowing for a longer healing rain, but it cannot be sustained, no way. I am currently trialing for a guild and I am more and more concerned about WoD at this point with the current state of Resto Shaman >.>

Druid's can yawn afk rejuv and wild growth and put out excellent heals, and for us, not being able to use CH as frequently along with the nerf to Resurgence makes me feel crippled. Prior to 25m raiding on live, I raided 10m at high levels, Riptide on cd, and single target heals worked well, along with HR and CH accordingly on the situation. With Mythic 20man, it will be questionable how it all plays out if we continue with the single target playstyle with CH only with riptides on people with High Tide talent, AND having good RNG. I am completely frustrated at the moment. EB is ridiculous with a 2s cast timer as well.

/venting&crying

brb sitting in the corner of the room facing the wall

[shammypie]

I've tried different approaches to encounters, and I feel nowhere near as powerful as other healers. I know for a fact I am not a bad healer(not bragging), I am confident in my abilities, yet I cannot keep up with the other healers. RNG plays a role when deciding whether or not to glyph Riptide or not and it is extremely frustrating. I can keep up and put out high output with Riptides rolling and spamming Chain Heal with Conductivity allowing for a longer healing rain, but it cannot be sustained, no way. I am currently trialing for a guild and I am more and more concerned about WoD at this point with the current state of Resto Shaman >.>

Druid's can yawn afk rejuv and wild growth and put out excellent heals, and for us, not being able to use CH as frequently along with the nerf to Resurgence makes me feel crippled. Prior to 25m raiding on live, I raided 10m at high levels, Riptide on cd, and single target heals worked well, along with HR and CH accordingly on the situation. With Mythic 20man, it will be questionable how it all plays out if we continue with the single target playstyle with CH only with riptides on people with High Tide talent, AND having good RNG. I am completely frustrated at the moment. EB is ridiculous with a 2s cast timer as well.

/venting&crying

brb sitting in the corner of the room facing the wall

welcome to the purge. We have complimentary boxes of tissues and new revamped rerolling system for instant level 90 restart. Finally there is a diehard room in the back if you don't have anywhere to stay. See you in 1/2 tiers.

[Deleted]

You guys high? I took active part of the last two testing sessions and the previous before the last was awful but after the following patch i was higher (pun intended) than all healers by 5-10 % margin. Something happened when i was gone?

[Tiberria]

According to Celestalon, due to incessant Mistweaver whining, their solution to Revival sucking as a raid cooldown is to nerf the hell out of HTT.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1494589?page=6

"1) Revival isn't underpowered (at least not by the giant amount you're talking about). Healing Tide Totem, which you're comparing to, is very overpowered. Tranq and DH are channeled and delayed. HTT is instant and delayed. Revival is instant and immediate, so absolutely should do the least net healing. The problem is that HTT was doing healing comparable to Tranq/DH, which is being fixed."

[Hoptam]

I thought we are at the bottom of the badnewsflask but that one seems to be bottomless.

Celestalon strikes again!

O.o

[Zaxvriin]

In a way, they're right that healing tide did too much healing compared to other raid cooldowns. In another way, they're still idiots for not addressing how weak revival is as a raid cooldown.

[Koor]

In a way, they're right that healing tide did too much healing compared to other raid cooldowns.

How is healing tide overpowered? In the current build -- before the incoming nerf:

Healing tide: http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/108280-healing-tide-totem
91.95% SP every 2 sec for 10 sec. With restorative waves: 91.95*1.25*1.5 = 172.4%

Tranquility: http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/740-tranquility
250.2% SP every 2 sec for 8 sec

Divine Hymn: http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/64843-divine-hymn
560% SP every 2 sec for 8 sec, and increases healing done by 10%.

Allowing the shaman to continue casting while HTT is active costs extra mana, and our own healing spells aren't even close to HTT since the raid cooldowns now heal the entire raid. It's also rare that the channeled spells must be interrupted, and if there is a high chance for that (e.g. a thok like encounter), a pala hand of protection can be used to allow the full duration.

[Aviators]

Resto shaman glyph choice is so meh. Everything is situational. Nothing that says "wow I need that"

[Madelein]

I've tried different approaches to encounters, and I feel nowhere near as powerful as other healers. I know for a fact I am not a bad healer(not bragging), I am confident in my abilities, yet I cannot keep up with the other healers. RNG plays a role when deciding whether or not to glyph Riptide or not and it is extremely frustrating. I can keep up and put out high output with Riptides rolling and spamming Chain Heal with Conductivity allowing for a longer healing rain, but it cannot be sustained, no way. I am currently trialing for a guild and I am more and more concerned about WoD at this point with the current state of Resto Shaman >.>

Druid's can yawn afk rejuv and wild growth and put out excellent heals, and for us, not being able to use CH as frequently along with the nerf to Resurgence makes me feel crippled. Prior to 25m raiding on live, I raided 10m at high levels, Riptide on cd, and single target heals worked well, along with HR and CH accordingly on the situation. With Mythic 20man, it will be questionable how it all plays out if we continue with the single target playstyle with CH only with riptides on people with High Tide talent, AND having good RNG. I am completely frustrated at the moment. EB is ridiculous with a 2s cast timer as well.

/venting&crying

brb sitting in the corner of the room facing the wall

I feel your pain.

I am a raid leader and I am debating my position in the raid once WoD hits because of just how badly WoD is panning out. And while I stare at my little corner with my packet of cookies, I am questioning whether I really want to keep battling (been going as Resto Shaman since vanilla and it has felt like an uphill battle the whole time) or simply just give up and play my druid or priest in WoD 20man mythic. None of the options fill me with much joy and none of it makes me look forward to WoD, even after the nightmarish long SoO tier..

[Koor]

I feel your pain.

I am a raid leader and I am debating my position in the raid once WoD hits because of just how badly WoD is panning out. And while I stare at my little corner with my packet of cookies, I am questioning whether I really want to keep battling (been going as Resto Shaman since vanilla and it has felt like an uphill battle the whole time) or simply just give up and play my druid or priest in WoD 20man mythic. None of the options fill me with much joy and none of it makes me look forward to WoD, even after the nightmarish long SoO tier..

My sentiments as well, mainly due to the addition of RNG into healing on a massive scale. It just ruins the healing game.

[Deleted]

son of a bitch! Does anyone remember any blue posts saying something around the lines: You cannot compare one spell of one class to the other? well that's a major example right there. leave mah cooldowns alone that's all i've got...

[Deleted]

son of a bitch! Does anyone remember any blue posts saying something around the lines: You cannot compare one spell of one class to the other? well that's a major example right there. leave mah cooldowns alone that's all i've got...

We've been talking about that double standard for a while now. All those rules apply only when explaining why you dump on shamans, they aren't an actual thing. Example?

Tremor's fear-break is being removed, because it's not a decision, it's an automated reaction and that's bad gameplay. Totem's have a laughable HP so they can be instantly killed when spotted, making it an automated reaction not a decision, but that's totally fine.

[Deleted]

We've been talking about that double standard for a while now. All those rules apply only when explaining why you dump on shamans, they aren't an actual thing. Example?

Tremor's fear-break is being removed, because it's not a decision, it's an automated reaction and that's bad gameplay. Totem's have a laughable HP so they can be instantly killed when spotted, making it an automated reaction not a decision, but that's totally fine.

Actually, it is very clear when you should talk about individual abilities, and when you should talk about classes as a whole.

You can't compare things like Hex to Polymorph, because both are part of the entire classes spell set. If you take one and say 'Well X spell is better than Y spell, so that means that Class A is better than Class B'. That logic leap doesn't work. Balance is done on the class as a whole, not individual spells.

However, when you have a spell like Tremor Totem that is so strong it skews the rest of the class's power, then you do look at the individual spell. Imagine a spell that has no cooldown, and kills everyone within 1000 Yards instantly, but every other spell the class has does 1 damage at the cost of 99% Mana Pool with a 10 second cooldown. Obviously, the class is freaking broken, not because of their entire package, but because of the one single spell. That single spell needs to be addressed. Compensation may well be required after the fact because that skew in overall class balance has now been addressed, but 'My class is absolutely terrible' is not an excuse for having an overpowered ability (obvious examples are extreme, but the premise is the same).

The confusion comes in because it is never as clear as this when an ability is overpowered or not, and there is a blur between what is a class balance nerf/buff and what is a targetted nerf at a particular ability. Often, it is indeed both. A Class is too strong *because* of a certain overpowered ability, and by nerfing said ability they are already readjusting the class as required. However, there will always be iterations on class power. There will never, ever be a situation where ever class is perfectly balanced, its just impossible unless every class is identical.

tl;dr - 1 to 1 comparisons between classes are *most* of the time a bad idea, because you ignore too many variables. However, on occasion certain abilities that are too overpowered can be taken on their own merit. The line between overpowered and balanced is never clear though.

[Deleted]

I've not been on the beta yet but was looking forward to playing my resto shaman in WoD but now I am worried. I really hope that they don't mess up the spec.

Are we going to be viable in Mythic teams as we stand now? Hopefully they will be doing some more tuning passes and bringing us upto par.

Really going to miss some of my shaman spells, especially mana tide as its so iconic.

Also just wanted to know will we be expected to be spamming CH as much as our mana can allow in Mythic, I usually raid 10M HC so stepping upto 20Man is going to be a fun challenge and will probably have to learn a different way of healing . Still reluctant to change mains though, but if I did it would be a MW Monk as we seem to be lacking monks. Are they performing better than us on the Beta?

[Deleted]

Undefetter to the rescue of the opressed developers once again! You missed my point though. I am not aiming at discussing whether the change to tremor was warranted or not, that is a matter of opinion.

But the idea was defended with the argument of "it promotes gameplay of reaction, not choice, and we oppose that". In discussion about TOTEMS, which are victim of reactionary play since the dawn of WoW ( see totem ---> kill totem, no thought process involved), it's a clear fallacy.

Any attempt to justify why one is fine and the other isn't just further proves my initial statement: somehow shamans always end up on the wrong end of the "Blizzard's developer logic" stick. Like this one. Like the whole HR going smartheal mess. Like LB change. And thats just recent examples. Thats what i call "double standards".

Tl;dr - DO NOT read much into reasons provided for changes. They hardly ever are set-in-stone rules developers live by.