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  1. #1221
    It looks like high tide was changed and the tooltip wasn't updated:

    - It seems the "riptide jump" range was significantly decreased. Not sure how it's calculated, if it's the distance from us or from the last CH jump, but I think before it could be anywhere within 40 yards, now it seems much less -- I could cast riptide on someone but CH didn't jump to him unless I got closer (bigger than the normal CH range but less than 40 yards).

    - Without high tide, I'm getting 10% degradation on each jump, in match with the tooltip:

    9247 (6165*1.5), 5548 (6165*0.9), 4993 (5548*0.9), 4493 (4993*0.9)

    - With high tide, I'm getting slightly different numbers on different tries. When three players are around:

    9247, 7318, 7180, 6912
    9247, 8050, 6912, 6528
    9247, 7318, 6912, 6528
    9247, 8050, 7603, 7180

    Seems to be 20% - 30% bonus on the 1st jump, then 5.5% degradation on the 3rd and 4th jumps.

    - With high tide, with two players in range:

    9248, 7181, 6911 - 16% bonus on the 1st jump, 3.8% degradation.

    - With high tide, only one player in range:

    9248, 7181

    Update: on further testing, it seems like high tide works as follows:

    - First chain heal does its normal jumps.
    - Then, bonus jumps are considered such that the total number of players healed isn't more than 6.

    I was able to get chain heal to jump to 5 additional riptide targets -- I stood far from all of them such that unglyphed chain heal only healed myself. Then, I put riptide on 7 players around me, all further than 12.5 yards. Chain heal jumped to 5 additional players, with the following numbers:

    9248, 6165, 6165, 6165, 6165, 6165

    So CH in total can heal up to 6 players, and if it doesn't find 4 within the "normal" chain heal, it can fill the rest from riptide targets within 25 yards (of anyone in the base group, it seems). The heals on the riptide targets all have equal value, which is lower than the values on the first non-riptide jumps.
    Last edited by Koor; 2014-08-22 at 05:27 PM.

  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by Assun View Post
    Is it a error on tooltip or just they bring back smart heal on chain heal ?
    This is my question as well. I read the description of Chain Heal in the latest beta build, and noticed it was a smart heal, jumping to the most injured target.

  3. #1223
    High Overlord Toolt's Avatar
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    i looked at a resto shaman WoD pvp yesturday and with no everliving or AA, we get shat on, we are forced to cast the most expensive heal we have, and we have no mana tide or a good water sheild,Since riptde ticks for 2-3k its not enough to keep us alive and others, we have the same issue we get trained, have to rely on our juke skills, and uses cooldown after cooldown, but this time we have no burst healing to keep things up. also with AV removed and no reduce dmg cooldown, outside talent its looking Very dark

    Totems, with Tremor beeing changed, and we have to use a glyph slot to make it 2 auto attack to kill instead of one, this now is fairly useless unless u go up againt a warlock and can tremor before hes cast is done, but by then your totem will be killed and u will have another fear on you.

    and as far as ive seen in pve we look strong, but i fear the chainheal spamm from ICC will be back, and yes we liked our class back then but we can all agree it was booring
    Last edited by Toolt; 2014-08-22 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #1224
    @Assun, I don't think chain heal's smart heal was ever removed, it would be pretty bad without it.

    The buff has made a huge difference in the raid testing at least, here are some logs from the first 2 tests:

    - Butcher: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...3#type=healing - HTT was always overhealing a lot regardless of when it was used, but chain heal was excellent, especially with the group taking cleaves dipping so low.
    - Twins: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...p#type=healing - you can seriously abuse HTT with EM + trinket procs on this fight.

    My only suggestion would be to move some of the power from HTT into other spells (Riptide / HST). Without rushing streams I feel like HST is not even worth dropping unless you're moving.

  5. #1225
    Numbers seems more than ok ! I wonder if it seems fun though ?

    Is the spam Chain heal back? if so, is it still fun?

    note: I also noticed you were not using Healing stream totem at all, I know it's been nerf to the ground but still. Isn't it worth a gcd ?

  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by Jelz View Post
    Numbers seems more than ok ! I wonder if it seems fun though ?

    Is the spam Chain heal back? if so, is it still fun?

    note: I also noticed you were not using Healing stream totem at all, I know it's been nerf to the ground but still. Isn't it worth a gcd ?
    If you're referring to the Wrath-style chaining chain heals then the answer is it's never going back and has never been back since cataclysm came out. We're still using hst (with rushing streams is seems worthy like 2x rejuv for 15 sec) and healing rain. Plus chain heal costs a TON of mana now.

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by Puhree View Post
    If you're referring to the Wrath-style chaining chain heals then the answer is it's never going back and has never been back since cataclysm came out. We're still using hst (with rushing streams is seems worthy like 2x rejuv for 15 sec) and healing rain. Plus chain heal costs a TON of mana now.
    Aye sir, I'm aware of that, but I was refering to the logs that dan has posted just above. No HST and CH being far above everything else (apart from HTT that will likely be nerf I fear.)

    Besides, I wonder if the new conductivity is not better than Rushing Stream. Less painful re-application of HR and some mana spared too

  8. #1228
    From my experience so far raid testing bosses.

    HST: Isn't worth the GCD to drop unless you have elemental damage to mitigate via glyph. Dropping this on a normal attempt ended with it doing 2-3% of my overall healing.

    Chain heal: Is great but with the latest patch the mana cost skyrocketed and is now not spammable. To me this means UE might be actually worth using now to buff CH.

    High tides: Chain heal not bouncing to people with riptide unless they are within range of the chain heal itself seems kind of silly and forces us to put our excess riptides exclusively on melee.

    Healing rain: Is O.K. but conductivity is needed on most fights to keep it rolling (because it decimates our mana). The healing also seems a bit paltry in our healing breakdowns compared to live.

    Ascendance: Doesn't do nearly as much as I think it should be doing. Possibly because of the changes to smart healing. I have no idea why but it seems to be underperforming.

    Spirit-link: 90% of the time all the time it's amazing.

    HTT: as expected is the best throughput cooldown out there right now because it isn't reliant upon channeling. Hit it and forget it.

    Elemental blast: Since the mana nerfs we seem to be able to OOM ourselves in about 20 seconds of CH spamming. EB is supposed to help remedy that. In reality it's a stationary mana buff that we have to cast so we don't go oom. Other than doing some paltry damage and some secondary stats it's nothing more than a crutch in a terrible talent tier that needs revisiting.

    Generally right now while testing if the fight goes long and everyone gets a chance to use their cooldowns Shaman's seem a little lackluster IMO. We fall behind 10-20% from other healers and without the health buff or mana tide totem it seems that we will be in a very niche position again next expansion. Some of the fights I tested shamans healing was just awful and we fell behind quite a bit more than the 10-20% I mentioned because of healing rain not being able to be utilized properly and high movement.

  9. #1229
    Has anyone been able to trigger echo of the elements as resto by casting healing spells?
    I couldn't get it to proc from healing spells, it seems to trigger only by using dps spells.

  10. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by Jelz View Post
    Numbers seems more than ok ! I wonder if it seems fun though ?

    Is the spam Chain heal back? if so, is it still fun?

    note: I also noticed you were not using Healing stream totem at all, I know it's been nerf to the ground but still. Isn't it worth a gcd ?
    On The Butcher it was only worth dropping when you get punted back, otherwise there were too many other things to spend globals on (mostly using EB on CD and chain healing the melee whilst keeping riptides rolling)

    On Twins I mostly dropped it whilst moving or just before the flames started hitting people (to proc HST glyph), but most of the time there was again too many things to spend globals on.

    You can't really spam chain heal for long periods of time without going OOM very fast, on The Butcher I was using conductivity, riptide on CD, Elemental Blast on CD (almost!) and chain healing the cleaves and went OOM before 4 minutes (this was with spirit on items and spirit food using the PvP premade)

    Quote Originally Posted by Koor View Post
    Has anyone been able to trigger echo of the elements as resto by casting healing spells?
    I couldn't get it to proc from healing spells, it seems to trigger only by using dps spells.
    When I used it a week or two ago It would proc 90% of the time on the first heal when combat started, never saw it proc off Elemental blast or other DPS spells myself.

  11. #1231
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koor View Post
    Has anyone been able to trigger echo of the elements as resto by casting healing spells?
    I couldn't get it to proc from healing spells, it seems to trigger only by using dps spells.
    when I tested it, while not in group it didn't proc at all. But in raid tests it was proccing from heal spells.

  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by danmofo View Post
    When I used it a week or two ago It would proc 90% of the time on the first heal when combat started, never saw it proc off Elemental blast or other DPS spells myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by xarax View Post
    when I tested it, while not in group it didn't proc at all. But in raid tests it was proccing from heal spells.
    Ah it only procs while in combat. After entering combat, healing spells proc it as well.

  13. #1233
    Next time there is a play with the blues, better vote for resto shaman

  14. #1234
    Quote Originally Posted by SaracenSz View Post
    From my experience so far raid testing bosses.

    HST: Isn't worth the GCD to drop unless you have elemental damage to mitigate via glyph. Dropping this on a normal attempt ended with it doing 2-3% of my overall healing.

    Chain heal: Is great but with the latest patch the mana cost skyrocketed and is now not spammable. To me this means UE might be actually worth using now to buff CH.

    High tides: Chain heal not bouncing to people with riptide unless they are within range of the chain heal itself seems kind of silly and forces us to put our excess riptides exclusively on melee.

    Healing rain: Is O.K. but conductivity is needed on most fights to keep it rolling (because it decimates our mana). The healing also seems a bit paltry in our healing breakdowns compared to live.

    Ascendance: Doesn't do nearly as much as I think it should be doing. Possibly because of the changes to smart healing. I have no idea why but it seems to be underperforming.

    Spirit-link: 90% of the time all the time it's amazing.

    HTT: as expected is the best throughput cooldown out there right now because it isn't reliant upon channeling. Hit it and forget it.

    Elemental blast: Since the mana nerfs we seem to be able to OOM ourselves in about 20 seconds of CH spamming. EB is supposed to help remedy that. In reality it's a stationary mana buff that we have to cast so we don't go oom. Other than doing some paltry damage and some secondary stats it's nothing more than a crutch in a terrible talent tier that needs revisiting.

    Generally right now while testing if the fight goes long and everyone gets a chance to use their cooldowns Shaman's seem a little lackluster IMO. We fall behind 10-20% from other healers and without the health buff or mana tide totem it seems that we will be in a very niche position again next expansion. Some of the fights I tested shamans healing was just awful and we fell behind quite a bit more than the 10-20% I mentioned because of healing rain not being able to be utilized properly and high movement.
    Who are shaman's falling behind? Who is wrecking the healing as far as we beta is telling us? Just curious.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by seismo93 View Post
    Who are shaman's falling behind? Who is wrecking the healing as far as we beta is telling us? Just curious.
    I haven't beta tested with a monk at all but Priests (both specs), HPals, and RDruids currently have more output than us. Initially we can keep up but our mana issues and having to hard cast EB put us behind in the long term.

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