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  1. #1

    [Restoration] Changes in 6.0+ & Discussion

    Warlords of Draenor (ALPHA) - Restoration Druid Changes and Discussion

    TABLE OF CONTENTS

    1.) General Information
    2.) Spells & Abilities
    (a) Changes from Live
    (b) New Spells/Abilities
    3.) Talents
    (a) Changes from Live
    (b) New Talents
    4.) Glyphs
    (a) Changes from Live
    (b) New Glyphs
    5.) Stats
    (a) Changes from Live
    (b) New Stats
    6.) Professions
    (a) Primary Profession Changes
    (b) Secondary Profession Changes
    7) Community Change Requests
    8) Contributions

    ----------------------------------------------------

    GENERAL INFORMATION

    This thread will keep all of the new Restoration Druid changes on the 6.0.x Warlords of Draenor beta client up to date and available for discussion. The purpose of this thread will be to discuss the changes that are being implemented with the understanding that this information is subject to change drastically from one beta patch to the next. Please try to keep this discussion civil and helpful. If you feel like any information from any posters should be added, feel free to send me a message with a link to the post(s) and I will get around to adding it as soon as I can.

    Finally, please understand that MMO-Champion, while frequently visited by members of Blizzard, is not the place to get up in arms about a change, demanding that something be adjusted “or else”. Once open, a similar thread to this will hopefully be made on the Warlords of Draenor Official Beta forums to give direct, visible feedback. Links to the two main threads (this one included) are:

    MMO-Champion: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...amp-Discussion
    Official Blizzard Forums: _

    ----------------------------------------------------

    SPELLS & ABILITIES

    There are going to be several changes to our healing capabilities come the start of 6.0 and into Warlords of Draenor. Blizzard has expressed their philosophy of retuning the healing spells here as well as the abilities they are removing here, but I will summarize them below.

    Changes from Live

    Druids will be keeping many of their signature spells for Warlords of Draenor. Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, and our Efflorescence will stick around as our high efficiency healing spells, while Regrowth and Wild Growth will be designed around higher throughput and less mana efficiency. This will be coupled to our smart heals not being quite so Einstein level of smart and instead randomly picking targets within range of the spell cast rather than the most injured ones.

    As you might have noticed, however, not all key and memorable Restoration spells were kept around and were instead lost in the cut. Innervate has been removed as a mana-returning spell, and Blizzard has stated that our spells have been adjusted accordingly. Nourish has also been removed as a low healing, high efficiency healing spell. Most importantly, Symbiosis has been removed from our repertoire.

    Symbiosis was used by Druids primarily for a defensive purpose, albeit not exclusively (see: SWG). Instead, all Druids, Restoration included, will be given Survival Instincts in a buffed fashion. This ability will now reduce our damage taken by 70%, likely for 12 seconds as it does currently on Live. It is yet unsure if this can be used in all Druid forms, or if it will require shapeshifting into either Cat or Bear forms to use, much like Might of Ursoc.

    Wild Growth has been hit with a major change in addition to it no longer being an entirely smart heal. The spell now has a 1.5 second cast time, much like its other area of effect healing spells from other classes (i.e., Chain Heal).

    Tranquility has been adjusted, and likely for the better. In the new iteration of Tranquility, the spell will now heal every raid/party member within its range every 2 seconds for a total of 8 seconds. As this change will no longer place heals over time on players, it is likely that Haste will not effect its healing done.

    As will be discussed in the Glyphs section, Glyph of Efflorescence has been lost as it is now baked into the spell itself -- meaning that placing your mushrooms to leave Efflorescence active is now baseline for all Restoration Druids.

    Rejuvenation is no longer our blanket spell as we have lost Swift Rejuvenation, making the GCD of Rejuvenation equal to all other spells in our arsenal rather than 1 second.

    Heart of the Wild has been changed to no longer provided bonuses to our primary stats (i.e., Intellect). Nature's Vigil healing done while active has been reduced to 16% while healing from damage done has been increased to 35%.

    New Spells/Abilities

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    Discussion

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    TALENTS

    Warlords of Draenor is introducing new talents for players at level 100 for us to again choose from. There we also some changes made to the existing level 90 talents that was mentioned above. For a look at the talents for Druids, you can check out the original post made, or see if the Talent Calculator has been updated.

    Changes from Live

    In the most recent information, there have been few changes to the Restoration talent tree. It appears that the level 75 talents and below have remained unchanged, but time will tell if changes are incoming. Heart of the Wild now no longer increases our baseline Intellect or Stamina by 6%. Nature's Vigil has also been adjusted to increase healing done by only 16% (down from 25% on Live), but increase our healing via damage done to 35% (up from 25% on Live). No other changes are currently available.

    New Talents

    At level 100, Restoration Druids will be given the choice of three new talents: Moment of Clarity, Germination, and Rampant Growth. Each will be discussed below.

    Moment of Clarity is similar to the current Legendary Meta Gem in Mists of Pandaria, in that it replaces our Omen of Clarity (the next cast time spell costs 100% less mana) and causes all spells cast within the next 5 seconds to cost 100% less mana instead. There was some discussion on Twitter some time ago whether this would include spells such as Rejuvenation and Lifebloom between Celestalon and Hamlet. It is unclear what the end result was at this time.

    Germination is a new ability that allows Druids to place two Rejuvenations on a target simultaneously. It appears that there is already discussion on whether this will be a good choice for us to use, and more theorycrafting data will be placed here as it arrives.

    Rampant Growth forces our Swiftmend to consume a Regrowth or Rejuvenation on our targets, but removes the cooldown restriction of the spell, allowing for burst healing at the cost of our heals over time.

    Discussion

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    GLYPHS

    Blizzard has been working towards making our lives easier, and one such change will allow us to automatically learn some glyphs. The summarized portions, along with any changes, are mentioned below.

    Changes from Live

    Blizzard will be giving all players a few of their Major Glyphs as they level in order to help the average player who has not yet leveled stay up to par and give them some help while playing.

    At level 25, Druids will learn Entangling Roots, Fae Silence, Ferocious Bite, Maul, Omens, and Cat Form.

    At level 50, Druids will learn Might of Ursoc, Nature's Grasp, Rebirth, Rejuvenation, and Savagery.

    At level 75, Druids will learn Faerie Fire, Healing Touch, and Master Shapeshifter.

    New Glyphs

    There have been many new glyphs implemented for Druids to use, many of which appear to be related to the Balance specialization. Regardless, several of them appear to be somewhat useful (or at least situational) for the next expansion Restoration Druids.

    Glyph of Imbued Bark - While Barkskin is active, when you are interrupted the resulting school lock has 50% reduced duration.

    Glyph of Enchanted Bark - For 10 seconds after activating Barkskin, you are immune to Silence and Interrupt effects.

    Glyph of the Shapeshifter - Each time you activate a shapeshift form, you are healed for 5% of your maximum health.

    Glyph of Travel - Travel Form grants an additional 60% movement speed, but can no longer be used while in combat. This effect is disabled in battlegrounds and arenas and cannot be combined with other temporary speed bonuses.

    Discussion

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    STATS

    At this point I'd like to talk about the stat changes that are coming with Warlords of Draenor. There are several major stat changes including the removal of some historical stats (Hit and Expertise), as well as the addition of new, more innovative stats for us to use.

    A link to Blizzard's most recent blog post can be found here that details all of their changes. I will summarize them below.

    Changes from Live

    As an Intellect-centered class, I will focus on the changes to Intellect and how they will impact us. For more information on the changes to Agility and more, please see the above link.

    Blizzard is attempting to normalize all primary stats for players so that balance may be more easily achieved. Intellect in the next expansion will no longer increase the chance to critically strike with our spells, healing or damage. We will be normalized with all other caster classes and be given a baseline 5% chance to critically strike with our spells and abilities.

    Spell Power will continue to influence the potency of our spells and abilities, adding to the entirety of our throughput in healing and damage.

    Since we do have the tendency to cast our damaging spells on occasion (Wrath and Moonfire come to mind), we are subject to the changes of Hit and Expertise. We, along with all players, will now have a 100% chance to hit with our spells against targets that are no more than 3 levels higher than us (including boss targets). As such, spells that modified our ability to hit targets have been adjusted, meaning that Balance of Power for Restoration has been removed.

    New Stats

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    Discussion

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    PROFESSIONS

    Professions are apparently getting some changes in the next expansion, allowing them to be more of a personal choice rather than one that will be of primary benefit to raiders. The short of it can be found here. Any new information posted, including specific information, will be detailed below as it becomes available.

    Primary Profession Changes

    The most important change that is being implemented with Primary Professions is that there are no longer any direct combat benefits that any profession will have, thus allowing players to choose the Primary Profession of choice rather than of necessity.

    There have been minor changes to Herbalism and Mining that will allow them to gather their resources from any node in the world, just at a reduced gain rate.

    Health Potions no longer share cooldowns with other potions, but instead with Healthstones, making Warlocks less necessary in raids and making the potions useful once again.

    Secondary Profession Changes

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    Discussion

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    COMMUNITY CHANGE REQUESTS

    Below are listed any solid community suggestions for change, along with any well-written posts that may support their reasoning:

    1.) _

    ----------------------------------------------------

    CONTRIBUTIONS

    I would like to extend a huge thanks to everyone who has helped make this thread and the thread on the official forums active and full of pertinent information. While I will not be able to list everyone, please know that even the smallest bump or bit of information goes a long way. Below are the people who have contributed largely to keeping this information up to date:

    _

    ----------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by bclumas; 2014-04-05 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Making updates

  2. #2
    Just from the top of my head, you can add:
    Nourish has been removed
    Wild Growth has a 1.5 sec cast time
    Primary professions no longer grants combat benefits
    "The secret of life is to appreciate the pleasure of being terribly, terribly deceived." -Oscar Wilde

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  3. #3
    I will be active here. I will be maining my Druid as Resto in WoD. I'm excited for the changes and im more interested in if the Omen Talen or if Germination will provide better output for us down teh road (Assuming it doesnt get changed which it probably will)

  4. #4
    R.I.P. innervate

    been playing since druids were innervate bots... those days will be missed
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  5. #5
    Some Interesting topics I would like to see discussed but don't feel confident enough to say anything about with any sort of authority. I've gathered these points from various posters on this and other forums.

    1. Druid stat scaling, in particular with haste. As it stands now, haste is a strong stat, and most raiding resto druids stack large amounts of it. With the removal of rapid rejuvenation, it seems haste will become an even stronger stat for us. Whereas before the relation between haste and mastery was such that we still wished to have a decent amount of mastery after going for breakpoints, haste now clearly overpowers mastery.

    2. An additional point I think deserves to be mentioned is the fact that nothing is being done to affect our scaling with crit. The obvious candidate that could receive a change to address this problem is Living Seed, but nothing has been mentioned by bliz concerning this. Currently Living Seed affects mostly tanks, due to the way it works. One possible fix would be to make it proc of rejuvenation, and have the heal go off on any damage taken (since, as far as i am aware, the heal now only goes off when the damage taken is of a particular type).

    3. The relation between Soul of the Forest and the new Rampant Growth talent. As others have pointed out, this would potentially lead to clunky gameplay, since it forces the druid to micromanage the duration of rejuvenation/regrowth through casting SM in order to avoid wasting ticks. This would add rotational gameplay to druid healing, something which goes against what blizzard has stated they want to get healing to. A proposed candidate for change would be SotF, as even in the current iteration of the game, it does not have a positive effect.

  6. #6
    Why do they have to take away our innervate and symbiosis D:

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sertii View Post
    3. The relation between Soul of the Forest and the new Rampant Growth talent. As others have pointed out, this would potentially lead to clunky gameplay, since it forces the druid to micromanage the duration of rejuvenation/regrowth through casting SM in order to avoid wasting ticks. This would add rotational gameplay to druid healing, something which goes against what blizzard has stated they want to get healing to. A proposed candidate for change would be SotF, as even in the current iteration of the game, it does not have a positive effect.
    Highlighted this point in the other thread, but I think it's REALLY important. Early days still but this one scares the crap out of me. Likely getting changed, but if they are ok with letting HT be part of feral gameplay in the past, weird stuff can happen. Don't care if it sounds strong, I don't want a fixed rotation. Actually liking the other end talents so far. Also assuming if efflo stays the way it is a big throughput nerf to the spell is inc. Considering the other healing spell changes, with no cast time and lasting as long as mushroom, bet blizz will think its too mindless, even if it won't target those with the lowest hp :/
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  8. #8
    I'd like to chime in on the SotF / Rampant Growth concerns. I do agree it could very well be clunky in implementation and a bit annoying to some thanks to the likely heavy microing, but I disagree with the fixed rotation part. Healers (the great ones anyway) don't have fixed rotations; they will pick and choose the spells that are optimal for the situation at hand. Sometimes the situation would call for a 'healing rotation' though in all honestly the only healing class I've played at 90 that comes remotely close to that is a shaman and even then not really. It has been like that since 4.0 (WotLK druid in all honesty was pretty close to a rotation though). Even then a good healer would recognize situations where they had to deviate from the infamous 5/1 rotation to use other spells.

  9. #9
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    Not quite what I meant, a rotation of abilities, even with a decent amount of deviation, is inelegant design when they need to be used in a sequence of more than a couple spells at a time. Fully well aware of the way things are now since this has been my class/spec since classic, but doesn't mean it couldn't happen in the future however unlikely- its just a worry. Anything that interrupts a healers ability to react to a situation as fluidly as we do now (which was the point) wouldn't be fun to me, personally.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sertii View Post
    1. Druid stat scaling, in particular with haste. As it stands now, haste is a strong stat, and most raiding resto druids stack large amounts of it. With the removal of rapid rejuvenation, it seems haste will become an even stronger stat for us. Whereas before the relation between haste and mastery was such that we still wished to have a decent amount of mastery after going for breakpoints, haste now clearly overpowers mastery.
    Yeah I have no idea what Blizzard were thinking when they said haste was looking as a poor scaling stat for us. As it looks to stand now haste will increase both the amount of rejuv's we put out and the healing done from each one which is actually pretty unique (and broken in later tiers) for healers, most spells are either tied to cooldowns (HoTs where haste increases the throughput of each one but doesn't increase the amount casted) or direct heals (which is vice versa to cooldown HoTs).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dargone View Post
    Healers (the great ones anyway) don't have fixed rotations; they will pick and choose the spells that are optimal for the situation at hand.
    Obviously good healers will choose the optimal spells for a given situation, that's sort of a tautology isn't it? The issue here is that the combination of SotF and Rampant Growth would lead to the optimal spells being used being solely swiftmend and rejuvenation, for the majority of the time. Imagine having Sotf'd rejuvenations running over half the raid? So much for focusing on single target healing this expansion. You might argue that this may be unsustainable due to mana issues, but still, Soul of the Forest promotes bad gameplay even now, and Rampant Growth isn't going to help that which is why this discussion is relevant.

    It is indeed bad design and does not encourage smart decisions, it encourages blanketing.
    Last edited by Sertii; 2014-04-05 at 12:56 PM. Reason: grammar

  12. #12
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    For the most part there are some good changes for restoration and I look forward to trying out the spec in beta, however I feel there is a serious problem with our level 100 talents. I just find them incredibly lackluster and lacking any sort of innovation, especially Rampant Growth which promotes an extremely mechanical play style, which is counter intuitive to the direction blizzard want healing to go. I hope they alter or completely change the talents, at least Rampant Growth. The current incarnation of Germination is a huge improvement over the previous iteration we saw at blizzcon anyway, so I guess we should be grateful for that change.
    Percolator, Resto Druid
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  13. #13
    I am working on finishing up the post, and there is already a ton of great discussion. I am going to add a section to the bottom of the post titled "Community Change Requests". Basically, anything that you all agree should be changed from the most recent iteration of data will be collected here, along with a link or two to the most well written post(s). Hopefully this will allow any sneaky Blizzard people to easily access great feedback and make changes swiftly. Our goal is a solid playing class come WoD/6.0, so please keep the feedback coming.

    Also, if anyone finds any theorycrafting information that seems very, very relevant, please post it as I will try to throw it into the main post above. Thanks!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sertii View Post
    1. Druid stat scaling, in particular with haste. As it stands now, haste is a strong stat, and most raiding resto druids stack large amounts of it. With the removal of rapid rejuvenation, it seems haste will become an even stronger stat for us. Whereas before the relation between haste and mastery was such that we still wished to have a decent amount of mastery after going for breakpoints, haste now clearly overpowers mastery.
    You aren't understanding what Blizzard is trying to say. Right now haste's scaling is limited, like they say. Right now any haste that is above or below the breakpoint of 3043 or 13163 (depending on where you are at) is completely useless. All other classes/specs don't have this limitation because haste makes their casting speeds better or reduces the GCD on all of their abilities. Obviously, we are mostly instant-casts so cast time scaling with haste is mostly irrelevant to us. The issue is further exacerbated because our rejuv is naturally going to be at "GCD cap" with swift rejuvenation and a low haste level.

    Your claim that haste is a resto druid's strongest stat currently is just wrong. Like I said, haste is only good for breakpoints, and nothing more. This makes haste significantly weaker for a resto druid when compared to haste's relative strength to other classes/specs. Furthermore, the removal of breakpoints in WoD would have made haste 100% completely useless for a resto druid. Thus, by removing swift rejuvenation, haste becomes useful (although its hard to value it compared to mastery without WoD beta being out).

    Basically, with the removal of hard breakpoints, something had to be done to make haste worth anything to a resto druid. Although it is impossible to predict how our stats will scale and interact in WoD release right now, ceteris paribus mastery still looks to be our strongest stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sertii View Post
    3. The relation between Soul of the Forest and the new Rampant Growth talent. As others have pointed out, this would potentially lead to clunky gameplay, since it forces the druid to micromanage the duration of rejuvenation/regrowth through casting SM in order to avoid wasting ticks. This would add rotational gameplay to druid healing, something which goes against what blizzard has stated they want to get healing to. A proposed candidate for change would be SotF, as even in the current iteration of the game, it does not have a positive effect.
    First, I agree that Rampant Growth + SotF presents a problem. Although it seems obvious that rampant growth was made purely to interact with SotF (meaning, without SotF rampant growth seems pretty useless), it would make resto healing very clunky. The rotation would probably be: Apply Rejuv -> SM it off -> Reapply Rejuv. That just sounds terrible.

    However, I think your suggestion that SotF should be changed to counter this isn't ideal. Rampant growth is the major problem, not SotF. Soul of the Forest can (and currently does) work on its own. However, rampant growth cannot work without SotF. Thus, logically, rampant growth is the problem. I just think the entire idea behind the rampant growth talent is bad, and they should make a completely new talent there. The other two level 100 talents are fine, albeit pretty "boring."

    Finally, I'm not sure what you meant by "SotF, as even in the current iteration of the game, it does not have a positive effect." I'm assuming you're claiming that SotF should be changed (rather than rampant growth) because SotF is currently bad? If so, that's just wrong. SotF is far and away the highest throughput talent of the level 60 tier. Incarnation is by-and-large a mana CD, as it's throughput gains are lower than SotF across an entire fight. Then, Force of Nature's throughput is significantly lower than SotF, especially at the 13,163 breakpoint. I wouldn't change SotF much at all, it works fine right now and is a giant boost to overall throughput.

  15. #15
    How do you all feel about the change to Wild Growth being a 1.5 second cast time spell? I feel as if it being a heal over time spell should exclude it from the cast time since it uses its throughput over roughly 8 seconds as opposed to instant throughput from similar spells (i.e., Chain Heal).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bclumas View Post
    How do you all feel about the change to Wild Growth being a 1.5 second cast time spell? I feel as if it being a heal over time spell should exclude it from the cast time since it uses its throughput over roughly 8 seconds as opposed to instant throughput from similar spells (i.e., Chain Heal).
    Assuming the cast time scales with haste (I don't see why it wouldn't), and SotF remains unchanged, the cast time will be incredibly quick. It won't change much in terms of the useage or gameplay of WG. The only thing it does it make us stop for less than a second (with SotF and haste scaling) to cast, making it so we cannot cast WG on the run. All-in-all, its not much of a change for us if we are standing still.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bclumas View Post
    How do you all feel about the change to Wild Growth being a 1.5 second cast time spell? I feel as if it being a heal over time spell should exclude it from the cast time since it uses its throughput over roughly 8 seconds as opposed to instant throughput from similar spells (i.e., Chain Heal).
    I like it for the precasting potential. In most situations, it's going to end up being a (very small) buff.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavathing View Post
    You aren't understanding what Blizzard is trying to say. Right now haste's scaling is limited, like they say. Right now any haste that is above or below the breakpoint of 3043 or 13163 (depending on where you are at) is completely useless. All other classes/specs don't have this limitation because haste makes their casting speeds better or reduces the GCD on all of their abilities. Obviously, we are mostly instant-casts so cast time scaling with haste is mostly irrelevant to us. The issue is further exacerbated because our rejuv is naturally going to be at "GCD cap" with swift rejuvenation and a low haste level.
    Plenty of other classes have haste breakpoints however resto is a bit unqiue due to so much of our healing being done by a single HoT spell and it makes our breakpoints a bit more infrequent than other classes at the moment. Also haste still reduces the gcd down to a possible one second which means it works for instant cast spells the exact same way it works for cast time spells, albeit with a smaller cap (that we haven't reached yet). The issue for druids was swift rejuvenation got us down to a 1s gcd from rejuv anyway which meant haste didn't allow us to cast more of them in a given time.

    Your claim that haste is a resto druid's strongest stat currently is just wrong. Like I said, haste is only good for breakpoints, and nothing more. This makes haste significantly weaker for a resto druid when compared to haste's relative strength to other classes/specs. Furthermore, the removal of breakpoints in WoD would have made haste 100% completely useless for a resto druid. Thus, by removing swift rejuvenation, haste becomes useful (although its hard to value it compared to mastery without WoD beta being out).
    Haste is our strongest stat at the moment, if it wasn't then druids would be staying at 3k and just stacking mastery (or crit if it's not shit in the scenario). Perhaps I should clarify; haste is our strongest stat when at a rejuv breakpoint at the moment. The removal of breakpoints in WoD is going to make any haste level become a breakpoint as we currently think about it, which means it's going to be all strengths for haste rather than all weakness. By removing swift rejuvenation our rejuv will scale with haste twice effectively and it's going to be broken as fuck come later tiers.

    Basically, with the removal of hard breakpoints, something had to be done to make haste worth anything to a resto druid. Although it is impossible to predict how our stats will scale and interact in WoD release right now, ceteris paribus mastery still looks to be our strongest stat.
    I don't think you're getting what the removal of hard breakpoints means. Currently our rejuvenation only gets value from haste up to 3k or 13k and anything above that is wasted and will do nothing for our rejuvation. The removal of breakpoints will mean no amount of haste is wasted for our rejuv and it's scaling will work like it currently does for our breakpoints, however it'll work for any value of haste (basically consider the value per point of haste at exactly ~3k and ~13k and it'll stay at that value per point for any amount of haste).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavathing View Post
    You aren't understanding what Blizzard is trying to say. Right now haste's scaling is limited, like they say. Right now any haste that is above or below the breakpoint of 3043 or 13163 (depending on where you are at) is completely useless. All other classes/specs don't have this limitation because haste makes their casting speeds better or reduces the GCD on all of their abilities. Your claim that haste is a resto druid's strongest stat currently is just wrong. Like I said, haste is only good for breakpoints, and nothing more. This makes haste significantly weaker for a resto druid when compared to haste's relative strength to other classes/specs. Furthermore, the removal of breakpoints in WoD would have made haste 100% completely useless for a resto druid. Thus, by removing swift rejuvenation, haste becomes useful (although its hard to value it compared to mastery without WoD beta being out).
    Basically, with the removal of hard breakpoints, something had to be done to make haste worth anything to a resto druid. Although it is impossible to predict how our stats will scale and interact in WoD release right now, ceteris paribus mastery still looks to be our strongest stat.
    I'm not sure you understand what the removal of breakpoints means. All it will do is make our haste scale linearly. Currently, if I'm sitting at 7k haste, one extra point of haste is almost useless. If I'm sitting at 13162 haste however, 1 point of haste has huge value. The fact that hard breakpoints are removed simply means that 1 point of haste will be have approximately the same value regardless of the amount of haste I have. In WoD, it will be ok for us to sit in between current breakpoints, due to how partial ticks work. If i'm sitting at exactly between the 3k breakpoint and the 13k breakpoint in 6.0, I will get 5 and half ticks of rejuvenation, instead of 5, and then sudenly 6 ticks at 13k haste. The fact that swift rejuvenation is removed, as I see it, is a flat buff to the scalar of haste.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lavathing View Post
    Finally, I'm not sure what you meant by "SotF, as even in the current iteration of the game, it does not have a positive effect." I'm assuming you're claiming that SotF should be changed (rather than rampant growth) because SotF is currently bad? If so, that's just wrong. SotF is far and away the highest throughput talent of the level 60 tier. Incarnation is by-and-large a mana CD, as it's throughput gains are lower than SotF across an entire fight. Then, Force of Nature's throughput is significantly lower than SotF, especially at the 13,163 breakpoint. I wouldn't change SotF much at all, it works fine right now and is a giant boost to overall throughput.
    Oh, I'm not denying SotF provides powerful throughput currently. Soul of the Forest is bad from a gameplay perspective, in the context of where blizzard wants healing to go to (smart decisions etc etc). Already, it encourages rotational gameplay and bad healing behaviour (often you're only casting swiftmend to buff your WG, or waiting for one of the two abilities to come off cooldown in order to use them together, when you could have found a smarter use for them had you not specced into SotF). Rampant Growth is, in my opinion, not creating a new problem, but exasperating an already existing problem, namely SotF encouraging rotational gameplay.

  20. #20
    The nature's vigil nerf is wrong though

    the most important things to note is that the healing and damage increase is 16% (up from 12%, not down from 25%) also the major change in the 2nd part of the spell which is why it's a nerf, reduced the extra heal from single target heals from 25% -> 0% while increasing the damage from our healing spells to 35% (up from 35%).

    they removed the smart heal component and buffed the rest of the spell, which overall keeps it as the best lvl 90 talent.

    on lvl 100 talents what seems most likely is that moment of clarity will be our talent of choice early on due to obvious reasons, more mana = more healing, while germination will be our late game talent when spending mana is more important than saving, while rampant growth will be our aoe talent, more sotf wg's = more aoe healing.

    depending on cost of wg we can expect sotf to be more of a situational talent, while force of nature will be our standby talent, and pick the 2 others depending on fight.
    FoN for standard fights, SotF for high aoe damage fights, and tree of life for burst fights.

    glyph of enchanted bark is expected to be quite baseline, I will stick with the glyph of healing touch if it stays (3 sec reduced nature's swiftness cd), glyph of wild growth seems like a must too, due to high mana cost on wild growth you rather want to increase it's power than having a reduced cd.

    Also I like the rampant growth talent a lot actually, as it can provide really fun gameplay sniping rejuvenations that almost healed it's full amount and adding some extra healing to that target than apply a stronger rejuvenation at a new target.
    Last edited by theburned; 2014-04-06 at 08:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.

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