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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceveda View Post
    Don't see why they're removing Fel Flame, I wish they'd remove KJC instead and keep Fel Flame.
    Ha, would be hilarious if they took out KJC as a talent and put Fel Flame as a talent in it's place.


    (Tbh, I'd consider taking it to, in certain situations)
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Ha, would be hilarious if they took out KJC as a talent and put Fel Flame as a talent in it's place.


    (Tbh, I'd consider taking it to, in certain situations)
    What I think would be awesome is bringing Fel Flame back baseline, and change KjC into something different that fits that row of talents better. This lets them give every lock spec a baseline amount of movement DPS and only that movement DPS and giving us a more interesting choice for that tier. The way it is right now makes KjC too powerful compared to MF and AD with the removal of FF.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    What I think would be awesome is bringing Fel Flame back baseline, and change KjC into something different that fits that row of talents better. This lets them give every lock spec a baseline amount of movement DPS and only that movement DPS and giving us a more interesting choice for that tier. The way it is right now makes KjC too powerful compared to MF and AD with the removal of FF.
    Every talent teir that people complain about is when they dont follow a theme. Our 90 talents dont follow any kind of theme, and that's the problem. (they follow a lore theme, but nice idea, doesnt work without a gameplay theme as well)

    There's a deathknight tree like this, one is mobility, one is a silence, and one is anti-fear

  4. #44
    Pandaren Monk Agent Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I understand the spell is iconic, but it's clear that it just can't be balanced. Every expansion it's reworked, with talents and Glyphs to attempt to support it, and still sees very little if any use. It's simply caught in TWO Catch-22 positions:
    - If it can outheal or even significantly buffer incoming damage, it's too strong, if it can't, it's no use.
    - If it does enough damage to be worth casting, it screws up rotations, if it doesn't do enough damage, it's not worth casting.

    They are very clear irreconcilable issues. So why does it continue to be reworked, and reworked, with attempts to support it with Glyphs and Talents added which simply can't be allowed to go far enough to fix either of those issues lest the Talents and Glyphs themselves become regarded as "too mandatory".

    It really feels like a whole lot of wasted effort; it's had the same problems for over 9 years, they aren't going to go away now.
    2nd point is wrong. It should be able to keep you alive longer not be more than the damage incoming or too little. Keep you up for another CD or while DoTs do some work.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    What I think would be awesome is bringing Fel Flame back baseline, and change KjC into something different that fits that row of talents better. This lets them give every lock spec a baseline amount of movement DPS and only that movement DPS and giving us a more interesting choice for that tier. The way it is right now makes KjC too powerful compared to MF and AD with the removal of FF.
    I know. No clue what they'll do about it. Celestalon seemed to indicate that they weren't happy with KJC today, so I'm expecting a change to it. Tbh, I don't expect Fel Flame to be in that solution. It's too easy a spell to use all the time while moving. Celestalon clearly stated (and I think specifically mentioning Warlocks in that answer) that in our efforts to use KJC while moving we forget we have other options too.

    Trouble is I'm not sure he realises how restricted we are and how little movement our abilities allow us. I mean, Affli can put up Corr. and Agony. That's 2 GCD's. Demo has plenty in Meta, but as a caster they have Corr. and then we WOULD have HoG if it weren't imperative that we weave them with Meta. I'm pretty sure we're better off weaving them and not doing anythign while moving then using their charges when we move. And then there's Destro, which only has Conflag, which should not afford us more then 1 GCD, if that. So where are these instants and abilities we can use to move?

    I suppose we can get some relief from moving with our Portal (assuming Gateway is there as a raid transportation device, what with it's 90 sec. debuff) but with placing it, and maintaining it, and always runnign the risk it's in a bad spot when we need to move, or worse not being where we need to move to (tanks rarely seem to take into account our Portal when they move ). All in all I don't think Portal is much of a soultion either.

    So, KJC makes the other talents on the 90 row less appealing and can't possibly stay in this form or it will get used most of the time, Fel Flame is presumably deemed too good a movement ability to keep, and our normal toolkit allows us barely anything. Not sure where the solution lies with this. I mean that's the joke really. Replacing KJC with Fel Flame changes very little, it would still probably be the go to talent, even if slightly less appealing then having our normal filler. You'd try to get away with it more and use Archi's, but enough movement needs in a fight and we'd use it.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Ha, would be hilarious if they took out KJC as a talent and put Fel Flame as a talent in it's place.


    (Tbh, I'd consider taking it to, in certain situations)
    I'd love that, I'd spec it :P

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Paarthurnax View Post
    I've used Soulshatter more then i have used drain life this expansion.
    Exactly!!!

  8. #48
    God this class is going in the gutter as an effective BG class when KJC dies. I mean, I just said farewell to Elemental Shaman's viability with their ability to cast lightning bolt on the move. At least they have instant LvB.

    What do we have?

    A 2.5 Chaos Bolt
    A 2.0 Incinerate
    A 30-second cooldown Mesmerize

    Yeah, good luck fighting a warrior with that one. Oh, and I thought I would see more warrior nerfs seeing as how they are ridiculous now. The hell these people designing, do they even PVP???

  9. #49
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Drain life should be gone now. there is no point to it. I do not even use it while Im soloing raids, or in pvp, as it get hard core interrupted.

    Felflame is mainly needed for pvp, and helps steer people away from kjc all the time right now. If it goes away, and they leave kjc, then everyone, but demo locks are going to pick it. (demo locks have 2 gcds during movement, unless you are able to weave hog, then its 3. corruption and lifetap the other 2). Once they realize this, they will need to make fel flame BASELINE, and get rid of KJC, and replace it with something like... summon 20 wild imps or pitlord or some bs. Celestalon never mentioned anything for pvp, and it is pretty clear he has no idea how to play or has played a warlock. From my understanding, he simply saw abilities to cut that had movement, with no idea the consequence.

  10. #50
    Maybe having a cd and inceasing effact is a good decision.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by shinewaylee View Post
    Maybe having a cd and inceasing effact is a good decision.
    May be fair enough given the effective loss of Healthstones.

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I understand the spell is iconic, but it's clear that it just can't be balanced. Every expansion it's reworked, with talents and Glyphs to attempt to support it, and still sees very little if any use. It's simply caught in TWO Catch-22 positions:
    - If it can outheal or even significantly buffer incoming damage, it's too strong, if it can't, it's no use.
    - If it does enough damage to be worth casting, it screws up rotations, if it doesn't do enough damage, it's not worth casting.

    They are very clear irreconcilable issues. So why does it continue to be reworked, and reworked, with attempts to support it with Glyphs and Talents added which simply can't be allowed to go far enough to fix either of those issues lest the Talents and Glyphs themselves become regarded as "too mandatory".

    It really feels like a whole lot of wasted effort; it's had the same problems for over 9 years, they aren't going to go away now.
    Sounds more like PvE issues to me, and in PvE, healers take care of healing, yea?

    Drain Life is very powerful in soloing situations, and decent in PvP situations if you can get the cast off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  13. #53
    Warlocks need to be overhauled big time, there a complete mess and totally broken.

    Enslave Demon - Next to never gets use
    Banish - Never used
    Unending Breath - Junk Spell/Filler
    Drain Life - Completely Broken ATM
    Malefic Grasp - Absolute crap and boring spell
    Dark Bargain - CD to high with the penalty is bad, needs to reworked.
    Mannorth's Fury - Still not up to par completely
    Shadowflame - Complete joke, especially compared to the other two. Need it back to it's former glory as a damage aoe spell.
    Haunt - Rather underwhelming feeling, doesn't feel like a hard hitter when you cast it..Pretty boring atm.
    Life Tap - Completely useless now. I went the entire expansion without using it once.
    Curse of Enfeeblement - Almost never see's use.
    Eye of Kilrogg - Junk filler spell

    Think that pretty much sums it up for the most part. And Shadow Bolt needs to be brought back to it's former glory as well being a main cast filler.

  14. #54
    Brewmaster Eace's Avatar
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    Couldn't they just make it deal crappy damage while healing for X times the damage done? I.e. doesn't deal much damage, but the healing is decent.
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  15. #55
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    Enslave Demon - Next to never gets use
    Something tells me we'll be able to use this plenty soon enough.

  16. #56
    My solution:

    -drain life for affliction (CD, istant, heal the caster for X sec and deal damage to enemy for X sec)
    -drain life for demonology turn in "dark mending", (CD, istant for demon form and with cast time for caster form)
    -drain life dor destruction turn in ember tap

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Something tells me we'll be able to use this plenty soon enough.
    If you like demons having less dps than your normal demon, go ahead. Death Knights gained Control Undead and what use they had this expansion? Skeleton guards in Scholo BUT you can't even use that in Challenge Modes.

  18. #58
    Drain Life is not a lost cause.

    It may not be very useful if you play destruction but it looks like if those Warlord of Draenor perks stay in, then it will be more useful.

    Also, thats just one spec. Affliction and Demonology use that spell alot, and now that healthstones are being nerfed in Warlords, that makes Drain life even more desirable and better.

    Even now though, Demo and affliction has these for defensives: healthstone, unending resolve. Those are the baseline defensives we have. They can me modified via glyphs and additional defensives added via Talents.

    If you are not using drain life you're putting more pressure on your healers.

  19. #59
    I think it was at its best in TBC/Vanilla where you had a talent that increased its damage by x% per DoT on the target. That way Drain Life is useful for affliction - the whole draining your enemies with curses/spells to heal yourself vibe - and less useful for Demo/Destruction who have better defenses anyway.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    Warlocks need to be overhauled big time, there a complete mess and totally broken.

    Enslave Demon - Next to never gets use
    Banish - Never used
    Unending Breath - Junk Spell/Filler
    Drain Life - Completely Broken ATM
    Malefic Grasp - Absolute crap and boring spell
    Dark Bargain - CD to high with the penalty is bad, needs to reworked.
    Mannorth's Fury - Still not up to par completely
    Shadowflame - Complete joke, especially compared to the other two. Need it back to it's former glory as a damage aoe spell.
    Haunt - Rather underwhelming feeling, doesn't feel like a hard hitter when you cast it..Pretty boring atm.
    Life Tap - Completely useless now. I went the entire expansion without using it once.
    Curse of Enfeeblement - Almost never see's use.
    Eye of Kilrogg - Junk filler spell

    Think that pretty much sums it up for the most part. And Shadow Bolt needs to be brought back to it's former glory as well being a main cast filler.

    drak bargain need a passive bonus, like 10% dmg reduction from all damage

    drain life need a rework: CD, istant, heal the warlock over time and damaging the target with a dot

    i'd like malefic grasp with graphic and name of drain soul...
    Last edited by Xanatas; 2014-04-10 at 02:55 PM.

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