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  1. #61
    Dreadlord MetroStratics's Avatar
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    Should only have gotten better over time. Just have a super geared friend, especially DPS, join and carry. When it scales per player, and you have a person doing more dps than 2-3 people put together, the place is a complete joke.

    Depending on what you are after, you can find 3-4 people interested in running. You run 2 groups. First group has you and one other person on their alts, and the other two people on their main. Then you run a second group with the options switched opposite.
    This works very well if you are doing Garrosh heirloom farm, but either way is the best option for avoiding failure.

    Either way, at this point, if you are upset about flex, its probably time to find a guild.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    The problem is the boosted 90's. It came at the worst possible time, as there is nothing to "force" them into learning the class like levelling does. We had bad 90's before but not on this scale.

    It's come to the point now where the good players are no longer queueing for LFR or joining Flex raids, so it will just end up with a bunch of boosteds running around getting nothing done, lol.
    And did traditionally levelled players always have this great amount of skill ?
    No they did not, so cut out that kneejerk reaction that is just the latest bandwagon for people to jump onto.
    Levelling does not ensure skill, nor will it ever do as long as there is this constant rush to get the level cap as soon as possible.
    Heirloomed dps tanking half a dungeon are more of a problem than the boost.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  3. #63
    Honestly, I feel like the the big downside here is that people refuse to use any voice coms. Everyone thinks they are a pro and they don't need to be on vent or whatever for flex. It's so easy, right?! Then when someone starts messing up, there is no way to tell them other than stop playing and type it in chat hoping that they will see which is more of LFR behavior than one of organized group. My guild used to do flex runs on Mondays and we would bring our alts that dinged couple of days ago with an avrg ilvl of 500 and maybe 1-2 guys carrying if they didnt want to play alts. As long as random pugs were on mumble, we were good. That time when couple of tanks in a row were refusing to get on, we were experiencing lots and lots of trouble.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Diggy View Post
    Honestly, I feel like the the big downside here is that people refuse to use any voice coms. Everyone thinks they are a pro and they don't need to be on vent or whatever for flex.
    Some people despise voice communications. I personally detest the idea of meeting random gamers in chat.

    I play WoW to enjoy a fantasy world, not to listen to nasal post-adolescent voices emanating from some room at Mom's house.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Diggy View Post
    Honestly, I feel like the the big downside here is that people refuse to use any voice coms. Everyone thinks they are a pro and they don't need to be on vent or whatever for flex. It's so easy, right?! Then when someone starts messing up, there is no way to tell them other than stop playing and type it in chat hoping that they will see which is more of LFR behavior than one of organized group. My guild used to do flex runs on Mondays and we would bring our alts that dinged couple of days ago with an avrg ilvl of 500 and maybe 1-2 guys carrying if they didnt want to play alts. As long as random pugs were on mumble, we were good. That time when couple of tanks in a row were refusing to get on, we were experiencing lots and lots of trouble.
    I have paid for a personal ventrilo server for ... 3 years now? maybe more. I'm on it almost all the time with my brother and friends while we play WoW and other games.

    To be expected to join vent/mumble/TS for repeatable content below the heroic tier just instantly turns me off on the content. As a point of reference, I progression raided in EQ1 during Planes of Power, with no voice chat at all and somehow our raid leader did just fine with typing things out. We still pulled our collective butts together enough to reach #3 on our server back in those days - without someone going all drama-queen/king on vent with every mistake.

    I'm continually amazed that some people post about how easy WoW supposedly is while they can't run fast enough to install every single tool and mod possible to make playing the game even easier.
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-04-08 at 09:15 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Smudge View Post
    Some people despise voice communications. I personally detest the idea of meeting random gamers in chat.

    I play WoW to enjoy a fantasy world, not to listen to nasal post-adolescent voices emanating from some room at Mom's house.
    Then enjoy LFR and stop trying to ruin the experience for the rest of us who actually want teamwork and cooperation to account for something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggy View Post
    That time when couple of tanks in a row were refusing to get on, we were experiencing lots and lots of trouble.
    "I'm 13/14HC, I don't need mumble for Flex Garrosh." Dies to first weapon. Can't pay attention to chat to know he's being asked to combat res someone. Gets ass handed to him on DPS meter by others despite failing at mechanics.

    You want voice comm free PUGs? Make your own, but don't come to mine. You want voice comm free content? Get lost.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Adhemar View Post
    Then enjoy LFR and stop trying to ruin the experience for the rest of us who actually want teamwork and cooperation to account for something.
    Voice chat is not a requirement for "teamwork and cooperation" in an MMORPG.

    Raid guilds would be better served to teach their members to be responsible and come stocked up, repaired and on time before getting all wound up over someone not wanting to be bothered with joining their voice chat.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    I'm continually amazed that some people post about how easy WoW supposedly is while they can't run fast enough to install every single tool and mod possible to make playing the game even easier.
    The amount of tracking required for high-end raiding is pretty serious and anyone who says WoW is easier now than (vanilla/BC/whatever) is basically full of crap. The tools have gotten better and the information is more readily available, but you still have to be able to apply them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Voice chat is not a requirement for "teamwork and cooperation" in an MMORPG.

    Raid guilds would be better served to teach their members to be responsible and come stocked up, repaired and on time before getting all wound up over someone not wanting to be bothered with joining their voice chat.
    Completely false. Or the whiners here wouldn't be whining about its necessity.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Adhemar View Post
    Then enjoy LFR and stop trying to ruin the experience for the rest of us who actually want teamwork and cooperation to account for something.

    - - - Updated - - -


    "I'm 13/14HC, I don't need mumble for Flex Garrosh." Dies to first weapon. Can't pay attention to chat to know he's being asked to combat res someone. Gets ass handed to him on DPS meter by others despite failing at mechanics.

    You want voice comm free PUGs? Make your own, but don't come to mine. You want voice comm free content? Get lost.
    Someone dying to the first weapon on Garrosh isn't going to be saved by voice chat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adhemar View Post
    The amount of tracking required for high-end raiding is pretty serious and anyone who says WoW is easier now than (vanilla/BC/whatever) is basically full of crap. The tools have gotten better and the information is more readily available, but you still have to be able to apply them.
    For heroic raiding, I would completely agree.

    For Flex though? don't think so. There is a multitude of things telegraphed by Blizzard now and other addons.

    Do you remember back in the days when people used to set timer clocks on their desk to time boss abilities? Now they are all just tracked by an addon - with no additional player effort other than downloading and unzipping the addon.

    Completely false. Or the whiners here wouldn't be whining about its necessity.
    Many raids were completed before Teamspeak and Ventrilo were even created. They are not a requirement in order to raid. They are considered a requirement by people who want to make raiding as easy as possible.
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-04-08 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Someone dying to the first weapon on Garrosh isn't going to be saved by voice chat.
    An obvious exaggeration, but I've had several people with this attitude screw up very basic encounter mechanics because they weren't in mumble for explanations and couldn't pay attention to it in chat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    For heroic raiding, I would completely agree.

    For Flex though? don't think so.
    Let's start by defining "necessary" here then, because I'm just adopting the definition the QQers are using. Voice communication is not ever necessary in WoW, not even for heroic Garrosh. A deaf person could play WoW and beat every encounter in the game. So what's there to QQ about (remember, the topic is banning voice comms from WoW)? It's a competitive advantage, and therefore deemed "necessary" by many. And that adds to the game, in my opinion. If you want content designed to be done without those competitive advantages, you have it. It's called LFR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Many raids were completed before Teamspeak and Ventrilo were even created. They are not a requirement in order to raid. They are considered a requirement by people who want to make raiding as easy as possible.
    Many raids were also very simple in comparison to modern encounters, so this argument is stupid.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post

    I'm continually amazed that some people post about how easy WoW supposedly is while they can't run fast enough to install every single tool and mod possible to make playing the game even easier.
    this is just how people are - making false statements to make themselves feel better about themselves - instead acknowledge that yes they are really good and supperior players and therefore should teach weaker players how to play better they all go into "false modesty asshole mode" and try to convince everyone how easy the game is when in fact they play on lv that 99.9 % of wow population will never reach. yet they demand those 99 % to play on exackly same lv as they do from day 1 forgeting it took them often 10 years to get to hte place they are now not 10 days -_-

    what is worse they demend that the blizzard will cater content only for those 1 % of playerbase cause eveyrthign is "so loleasy" whioch is pure bs from the veyr begining - and blizzard is lswoly starting to see it - thus making lfr into tourist mode and changes to first talent system now gear system //shrug - so the game was more plug&play not plug and spend hours researching internet how to play efficiently .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2014-04-08 at 10:42 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Many raids were completed before Teamspeak and Ventrilo were even created. They are not a requirement in order to raid. They are considered a requirement by people who want to make raiding as easy as possible.
    Voice comm is a great convenience. It is also a huge disruption to immersion. When someone comes up with a way to make voice chat immersive (as in, people speak in-character with character-appropriate voices) then let me know. Until then, it can go fuck itself.

    And voice comm is in no way necessary for raiding at any level. However it obviously makes many encounters easier, and makes learning them faster.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Many raids were completed before Teamspeak and Ventrilo were even created. They are not a requirement in order to raid. They are considered a requirement by people who want to make raiding as easy as possible.
    You need to look at your timing better, because voice chat existed before WoW did.

    Ventrilo: Initial release August 3, 2002

    WoW: Release date(s) AUS / NA November 23, 2004

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    You need to look at your timing better, because voice chat existed before WoW did.

    Ventrilo: Initial release August 3, 2002

    WoW: Release date(s) AUS / NA November 23, 2004
    And I'm afraid you need to check your source.

  15. #75
    Flex hasn't been messy only since Boost to 90. It's always been messy. It just depends at what ilevel/experience your group is sitting at. I'll generally minimize my risk and grab a Warlock friend of mine who's sitting on 565 so he makes the group. We'll generally grab around 540-545 geared folk since that's where our alts are at right now. Once we hit 550, we'll just move onto Normal and go from there. Pugging Flex can be extremely painful and is not really worth the aggro of ragequitters.

  16. #76
    How is voicecomms a disruption to immersion? Are all the heros in raids mute in lore?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Imhere View Post
    And I'm afraid you need to check your source.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventrilo
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

    Seems like good enough sourcing for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    How is voicecomms a disruption to immersion? Are all the heros in raids mute in lore?
    I guess he wants his guild to RP with him. Or he wants everyone who plays WoW to be a hardcore RPer who never breaks character. Out-of-character text chat seems just as "immersion" breaking to me, but it's his silly hang-up, not mine, so I guess I don't really get it, either.

  18. #78
    Epic! theostrichsays's Avatar
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    I posted a while back about Flex getting worse. I just left with the feeling that the more random people I had in the group the worse it will be. I imagine most people who are still flexing on alts don't have the same number of friends that need to do it or will do it, thus just praying that people have any clue what they are doing. Honestly the only 2 things that most people on flex seem absolutely horrendous at is Malk soaking and Garrosh mind controls. I would add orbs on Norushen but besides not soaking which isn't the issue in my experience it is just not a raid wiping ordeal if Johnny Awesome the pug goes in at the wrong time.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    grab a Warlock friend of mine who's sitting on 565
    grab around 540-545 geared folk
    Once we hit 550, we'll just move onto Normal and go from there
    See, that's the rub. I did Flex PUGs in the first month of SoO with people in 520-530 gear and we got through them just fine. But now that so many less-experienced/committed/skilled players have higher item level gear from LFR (536), Celestials (561), Ordos (567), legendary cloak (608) and whatever they might have had their friends help boost them out of flex and normal, the item level requirements for most PUGs have shot through the roof. It's not uncommon to see people demanding 550+ for Flex 3/4 on my server and you basically can't get into a Flex under 530, which is massive overkill for Flex. We started normals at 530 and 550 is over-geared for anything short of Garrosh (which is tuned for 545-550).

    Meanwhile, a lot of more experienced players have graduated away from Flex entirely, decreasing the overall competency of the Flex-PUG pool. I have just finished getting my 5th alt Flex-ready, but I doubt I will spend more than 2-3 weeks running Flex on him before moving to normal as he is already 533.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    How is voicecomms a disruption to immersion? Are all the heros in raids mute in lore?
    Have you actually compared the environment in voice chat with ... you know ... sword and sorcery and all that shit?

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