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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Aere View Post
    Source?
    Celery mentioned on twitter once that CoP will be more than just Mindspike/MB and will include DP/MF and SW.

    So something like: Msp + MB until 3(5) Orbs followed by DP + Mindflay Channel. But that's just theory and it's actually pretty much impossible to tune single-target with Mastery as the single target stat:

    DPs damage is not increased by Mastery.
    Mindflays damage is only increased by Mastery.
    Mind Spikes damage is increased by Mastery, but has high base coefficient, plus CoP multiplier.

    For the above rotation to work DP DoT + MF has to always be better than spamming Mindspike. DPs instant damage has always to be better than Mindspike, etc. Bash me for taking current numbers: Even at entrance level stats Mindspike currently beats DP in damage. So currently CoP would consist of one button to press.

    As long as Mastery does not increase DPs damage or Mindspikes damage is increased by Mastery there will be a point when casting DP is no longer worth it (or T90 talents). Only change that would prevent this from happening is to remove Mind Spike from Mastery.
    Last edited by Kaesebrezen; 2014-04-06 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #22
    Even though it's not worded in the Mastery specifically in the patch notes, I would have to think that Insanity would also benefit from mastery, as it does a percentage difference of Mind Flay damage that IS affected by the mastery. So double damage, mastery buffed mindflay ticks (aka Insanity), will be more than Mind Spike whenever they get around to balancing numbers.

    As long as they have Mind Spike be just under Mind Blast, and Mind Flay just under Mind Spike, then when Insanity is applied, it will be in the rotation. Especially with DP ticking during the Insanity it will be greater than casting mind spike over the same duration. Just have to have Mind Flay close to Mind Spike, and with DP and Insanity it'll push over Mind Spike DPET

    90 Talent > Mind Blast > SWD sub 20% > DP3 + Insanity > Mind Spike

    Something to that effect. They will have to buff the 90 talents, but Celestalon has already said they will be in single target rotations so, that is going to happen I'm sure due to the healing component getting removed.

  3. #23
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Besides, it won't take very much for DP + MF to stay better than MSp through the entire expansion. Both FDCL and S&I give DP effective mastery scaling anyway. It's Mindbender that's going to be left out in the cold.

    Really, though. Mindbender should get mastery scaling too. Since it's got "Mind" in the name!
    {[( )]}

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinalcrack View Post
    Even though it's not worded in the Mastery specifically in the patch notes, I would have to think that Insanity would also benefit from mastery, as it does a percentage difference of Mind Flay damage that IS affected by the mastery
    I did take that into account but:

    1) It would pretty much make CoP + MFI mandatory - while the only choice left is between ToF/PI (DI is bad because by default CoP uses MB every 4.5 sec - resetting the CD doesn't do much - instant cast MB waste a full -1 sec of MB CD for a spike as you still have to cast 3 mindspike between MBs)
    2) Insanity has seen major buffs through mechanic changes - expect it to be reduced to 50-60% damage increase to keep it in line with FDCL/Mindbender:
    - Extra Orbs through SW:Smiley double tap
    - 4th Mindflay tick
    - Orb banking to 5 allows far more freedom to plan your DP action on movement encounters (this is huge)

    FDCL on the other hand has seen a very big nerf to it's multi-DoT potential. Also DP at a < 1 sec ticktime plus VT ticking can cause a proc overflow much more easily on single-target.
    DI as written above doesn't go well with CoP, but the changes made to FDCL/DI combines to a rather nice synergy for it outside of CoP.
    As long as they have Mind Spike be just under Mind Blast, and Mind Flay just under Mind Spike, then when Insanity is applied, it will be in the rotation.
    It's currently not that way because MB is not on CoP, but that can easily be changed. Still the problem is DP - not Mind Blast. DP has to be above Mindblast and Mindspike, but Mastery can (and will) put both of them above it.

    CoP has massive restrictions to it's tuning that have to be met:
    1) Mindspike has to deal more damage than Mindflay - this means it needs an higher coefficient than Mind Flay. (Currently it's 218% vs. MFs 100% per GCD)
    2) Mindflay + DP DoT has to deal more damage than Mindspike.
    3) DP always has to deal more damage than Mind Spike and Mind Blast.
    4) It has to be best at single target.

    Solving #1 and #2 with DP unaffected by Mastery is difficult, while also trying to get to #4. At the same time MFs damage has to be tuned for all other talent options, while Mindspike still should keep it's original intent of nuking down not-dot-worthable adds for non CoP specs.
    #3 can't really be solved - and adding DP to Mastery can't work between CoP and non-CoP as CoP would then have a huge part more of it's damage affected by Mastery than non-CoP does.

    You can now either alter CoP itself - or change the mastery. Removing Mindspike will result in too little damage affected by Mastery for CoP, while adding DP will be close to all of CoPs damage output.

    will be more than Mind Spike whenever they get around to balancing numbers.
    What i'm trying to do is to point out potential problems that will arise when tuning happens - and that will more likely require mechanic changes, not tuning. There just are things that can't be tuned.

    They will have to buff the 90 talents, but Celestalon has already said they will be in single target rotations so, that is going to happen
    And how hard are they supposed to hit? Take the current live scenario: DS is exclusively used when it heals, Cascade is and very rarely has been used for damage (the mechanics just are too bad for it - mobs that spawn that way are also in Halo range), Halo is the DPS talent.

    DS, Cascade and Halo have to be always ahead of Mindflay and Mindspike in damage. As none of them benefits from Haste, Mastery and Readiness, they pretty much need a large headstart on damage to be good in later tiers, or be buffed every new tier.
    Thing just is as Mastery affects only a small part of our damage, it needs a large % gain per point. Single-Target you take Mastery, T90 damage stays same, filler spells that T90 actually replaces, grow fast in damage done per point of Mastery,etc..
    Last edited by Kaesebrezen; 2014-04-07 at 11:26 AM.

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