1. #1

    Quick question on resto druid trinkets, flex vs normal

    I have 561 cleave trinket, 561 multistrike trinket, and 548 Prismatic Prison of Pride.

    Mrrobot suggests I use the two 561-trinkets and drop the amp trinket.

    But I shouldn't, right? I should keep the 548 amp trinket and swap between cleave and multistrike per fight?

  2. #2
    I would recommend you keep the AMP trinket. Even at flex values, I find it more beneficial than having both cleave/multistrike. I'm not calcing it, but the int you lose on lower ilvl trinket will likely be made up in gained secondaries; especially if you're going for 13163 haste breakpoint and not matching some of your sockets in order to achieve it.

  3. #3
    Thanks, I'll stick to it.

  4. #4
    Use the amp and cleave trinkets.
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  5. #5
    Shouldn't multistrike outperform cleave on encounters where people aren't stacked? 561 multistrike should add 5% healing, if the tooltip percentages are correct and straightforward to interpret, which is what I got out of cleave at today's Thok Normal.

    What I really want is the Samophlange, and trade intel procs that I don't find much use for for more mastery.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Teryx View Post
    Shouldn't multistrike outperform cleave on encounters where people aren't stacked? 561 multistrike should add 5% healing, if the tooltip percentages are correct and straightforward to interpret, which is what I got out of cleave at today's Thok Normal.

    What I really want is the Samophlange, and trade intel procs that I don't find much use for for more mastery.
    The multistrike trinket is really really bad. When I got it as WF HC, I tried to replace cleave with multistrike for some bosses in 10 man, but the results were always worse. Also, all healing-wise meaningful fights have people more or less stacked, and there are always melees/tanks stacked. Especially at (heroic) Thok, cleave increases my healing by about 10% in 10 man, 15% in 25 man. No other trinket can get anywhere near those values.

    DSD is my personal favorite trinket, and the cleave trinket is just too good not to use it on most important fights.

  7. #7
    What Thaldor said is very true, even more if you are doing 25 mans. I'd take even raidfinder of the other three trinkets over a HWF multistrike trinket. It just doesn't do anything good.
    DruidShamanPaladinMonk
    StreamVigil, US #5 25 Man

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    at (heroic) Thok, cleave increases my healing by about 10% in 10 man, 15% in 25 man.
    That puzzles me, since it's far off from the values I see. Here's the log from my last Thok kill. I've looked at some other logs from heroic Thok and the cleave is typically alot higher than I get.


    Can only single-target heals cleave or multi-strike? Cleave range is 8 yd from the target of the heal, right?

    Edit: Another normal log with low cleave values.
    Last edited by Teryx; 2014-05-23 at 03:40 AM.

  9. #9
    I disagree with the spirit of much of the advice given so far. Multistrike is fine. Even if it's generally weaker than equal ilvl trinkets it's almost always superior to lower ilvl trinkets and situationally superior to Cleave and Prismatic Prison of Pride.

    --

    561 Multistrike is basically always a 5% healing increase. It can do quite a bit less due to overheal, but in the scenarios where its overheal is high the Cleave trinket's overheal will probably be much higher (because it's a less frequent and larger proc). There aren't really any fights in 25 man where a 561 Cleave will do less than 5% but there are several where it may in 10-H: Immerseus, Iron Juggernaut, Shamans (depending on strat/role/split), Nazgrim, Malkorok, Paragons. If your 10-man is melee heavy (3+) the Cleave trinket will be a bit more consistent. If you're running logs you can always just check how much of your healing the Cleave trinket is on each fight and for any fights its less than 3% or so you can use Multistrike over it.

    I assume the reason the Cleave trinket does a relatively low amount of healing on your Thok parse is because you're exiting the phase on the early side. This is completely fine on normal, but it does make it so that your trinket and your own HPS don't really peak the way they have to on Heroic.

    --

    Pristmatic Prison of Pride's value depends too much on your stats to make a random guess as to its effectiveness. Using what seems to be your armory (based on the logs):
    548ilvl = 6.68% increase
    20.90% Crit: 1.15% healing increase
    Haste+Mastery+Spirit (32245 total pre-PPP): 2154 stats from PPP (converted to mastery)= 3.34% healing increase
    Total: 4.49% healing increase

    That's very close to a 561 Multistrike and probably makes PPP worth using over Multistrike since you can't swap PPP in for your Cleave or Multistrike without wasting about 1/3 of its value on meaningless Haste (unless you can reforge on the spot). If you're comfortable with using Cleave for all fights you can use Multistrike over PPP until you get a little more gear or a better PPP.

    --

    Slightly off-topic, regarding taking a 528 Dysmorphic Samophlange over a 580 Nazgrim's:
    Let's assume you're around 570ilvl and you have 54k SP and 40% Mastery.

    580 Multistrike is a 6% healing increase.

    The 528 DSD's 1552 Int is 1792 SP which is a 3.3% increase in SP which is actually more like a 2.5% healing increase (using Rejuv as our basis: 3.3*.392*54000/(4234+.392*54000)). Dysmorphic also has 2011 Spirit which at 40% Mastery converts to a 2.99% increase (2011/480)/1.4)-- combined those are a 5.49% healing increase which is less healing than Multistrike even if we ignore the Int proc.

    Ramping up from 548, to 561, to 574 those DSDs only beat a 580 Nazgrim's if the proc is less than 10%, 30%, and 70% respectively. The only number that seems reasonable to me there is 70%. So, as far as I'm concerned, DSD never beats Nazgrim's if Nazgrim's is from a higher difficulty but is superior to a Warforged version of Nazgrim's of the same difficulty. Granted at lower SP and Mastery values DSD will perform better compared to Nazgrim's, but it will also be worse at higher values.
    --

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Skagasm View Post
    I disagree with the spirit of much of the advice given so far. Multistrike is fine. Even if it's generally weaker than equal ilvl trinkets it's almost always superior to lower ilvl trinkets and situationally superior to Cleave and Prismatic Prison of Pride.
    Yea multistrike gets a lot of hate for no reason. People just regurgitate what they read about it being bad and the hate train just keeps on going. I use HWF cleave/multistrike. 50% of the time the cleave does more healing, and 50% of the time the multistrike does more healing. Both get above 8% of my healing done depending on the fight, and both average around 4-5% healing done on a typical encounter.

    It's a toss up for the most part, and the PPM based proc on the multistrike trinket is nice to have when the other options are the same 115 sec ICD on all the other trinkets.

    I don't think I would use a DSD if I got one, already have tons of spirit after reforging out of basically all of it.

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