The 6.0 Protection warrior thread.

[Leih]

Good thing we have two AMs then!

[Griffeth]

So due to changes in guild and server I will be maining prot in WoD. Got into the beta a couple days ago and started leveling as prot just to get a feel for the changes. It is 100% viable. you wont 1-2 shot stuff like you would as arms, but I have been 2-3 shotting most stuff and I am able to solo elites and rare mobs very easy.

[booi]

Don't have rights to link the simulation, but we're looking at ~94% uptime on shield block with 4 set. That combined with the fact that we'll be approaching crit block cap in mythic gear... the only melee hits we'll be taking will be for 22% of the full hit. Definitely overpowered, and certainly does not reward intelligent decision making.

not a fan.

[idefiler6]

It's a joke.

Regardless, if you're potentially getting 90+% uptime on Shield Block then there's very little opportunity for the more skillful player to use it more effectively.

Usually the divide is between someone who uses their AM properly, and someone who is completely clueless and uses Heroic Strike rather than dumping that rage into something useful.

[Gliff]

I think we are safe to bet those will not be our exact bonuses once it hits live.

I'd like to see a reduction in Shield Block CD and give us the option of when we want to use it. It will have the same result as the current 2-set but it will give us control of when and if to use it.

If the 4-set is multiplicative then it is a lot more realistic that it hits live.

They need to be switched though because that 2-set is WAY better.

[Callsignecho]

I think we are safe to bet those will not be our exact bonuses once it hits live.

I'd like to see a reduction in Shield Block CD and give us the option of when we want to use it. It will have the same result as the current 2-set but it will give us control of when and if to use it.

If the 4-set is multiplicative then it is a lot more realistic that it hits live.

They need to be switched though because that 2-set is WAY better.

I'm not sure if it's the 2 piece or 4 piece of the PvP set, but if the 2 second Shield Block duration increase in still there and is the 2 piece, 2 piece PvE + 2 piece PvP would be ridiculous.

[Requiel]

I'm not sure if it's the 2 piece or 4 piece of the PvP set, but if the 2 second Shield Block duration increase in still there and is the 2 piece, 2 piece PvE + 2 piece PvP would be ridiculous.

I think that was the old PVE 2 set bonus, the pvp bonuses are extra crit chance on SS after charge and the 4p is you gain rage from damage taken (1 per 1% MAX 5)

[Karnudge]

Ok so tank tuning, other tanks have had their HP brought down closer to warriors. Do we think that when they tackle AM tuning they'll nerf the warriorness?

[Breccia]

Eh...I hate to say "Celestation has a point" but Garrosh N's melee attacks instantly destroy anyone he hits that isn't a tank. Tanks can sit there and take the beating for quite a while. So understand what "tank power creep" is. I just hope his number tuning works.

[Naequin]

I just hope his number tuning works.

If it works as well as his DPS warrior design philosophy, gods help us.

That said, I do welcome the idea of a DPS being able to jump into a defensive "stance" and safety netting while a tank gets brezzed or whatever. I suspect it'll be a fine tuning line though.

[Karnudge]

If it works as well as his DPS warrior design philosophy, gods help us.

That said, I do welcome the idea of a DPS being able to jump into a defensive "stance" and safety netting while a tank gets brezzed or whatever. I suspect it'll be a fine tuning line though.

As long as it doesn't become like a leveling dungeon where the tank role is optional.

[Leih]

Not at all surprising there will be across the board tank nerfs though. Painfully obvious in a lot of the raid testing that in some situations the tank survivability is super overtuned. The only mobs that are any threat at all have to hit insanely hard to really make much of a dent, and we're completely immortal against non-boss or world mobs, even worse than we already were in MoP It's definitely understandable they're doing this.

Only concern is Blizzard doing what they often do and totally overkilling the changes, but we'll see!

[Deleted]

This is one of the changes that it is supposedly better for the game, but worse for the tank as individual, so whatever, I am not going to discuss it too much since they will keep their own consel.

Anyways, it is very probable that it will be overdone and that whatever you do as a tank will become irrelevant (both DPS and mitigation). I kind of agree that our DPS becoming a non factor was good for the game (although it strips tanks of a very fun aspect). Even if it ends up not overdone, I absolutely disagree with reducing the second point and increasing our dependance on healers. It is just stripping power and responsability for our role to one that already has enough. Not good. Tanking things that would overkill 100 times a dps is when tanking really felt alive. At this rate, things like tanking Empress addsx6, all Meljarak, Raden, etc will be remembered as the peak of this game tanking, and all the bosses from now on will feel just tasteless and unstressful.

[Gliff]

I'm fine with the change and putting more pressure on the healers as long as they do not overdue it and go back to pre-AM where we are just meat-shields.

[Deleted]

I'm fine with the change and putting more pressure on the healers as long as they do not overdue it and go back to pre-AM where we are just meat-shields.

Exactly this but when I'm reading that they're nerfing our base mitigation and things and then also weaken the effects of our AM abilities I wonder how much of a difference there will be (mitigation wise) between a good and a bad tank.

Afterall currently if you don't black/barrier things your healers will know about it and it ups the risk, if the AM abilities simply become 50% less effective I'm afraid we'll turn into exactly what you're saying Gliff, meat-shields.

That's just a fear though, not based on anything real like testing experience on the Beta or any of that (Curious when they'll roll out these changes anyhow because I do feel it's rather late in the 'game' to just rush this change through)

[Deleted]

Even if they doesn't end fucking it up, it's a step in the wrong direction for tanks: getting strip of power and responsability when tanks should be the job heavily loaded with it. What exactly is a tank responsible of? His DPS now won't matter that much. At bosses mechanic level, it's the same as other players in these last expansions. One boss would ask more of tanks, the other will be a trivial unmoving pingpong debuff and rely on healers or DPS.

Now, let's keep stripping the responsability of tanks over their own health, making our gear and skill use even less relevant and there you have it, tanks are a very pretty lamp post. If you have a dead weight in your raid, ask him to become a tank. It's probable that you won't notice the difference.

[Teye]

Even if they doesn't end fucking it up, it's a step in the wrong direction for tanks: getting strip of power and responsability when tanks should be the job heavily loaded with it. What exactly is a tank responsible of? His DPS now won't matter that much. At bosses mechanic level, it's the same as other players in these last expansions. One boss would ask more of tanks, the other will be a trivial unmoving pingpong debuff and rely on healers or DPS.

Now, let's keep stripping the responsability of tanks over their own health, making our gear and skill use even less relevant and there you have it, tanks are a very pretty lamp post. If you have a dead weight in your raid, ask him to become a tank. It's probable that you won't notice the difference.

Except, when you take the passive mitigation of Defensive Stance away, and make things like Shield Wall and Demo Shout last for less time, it causes AM to become more important, effectively giving the tank more responsibility.

I swear, people just read the AM part of the post and assumed the world was ending.

[Deleted]

Ts, slow down with me. They have reduced passive mitigation, CDs and AM. If you have the patch notes, please post them, because you seem to know that they have changed everything in a way that results in more emphasis placed into AM. Which, if you only have the blue post as me, it's not their objective at all. Their objetive is to reduce the power of tanks, just as they reduced the DPS they bring, they have also reduced their capability to mitigate, along with the bosses damage without changing the healers. See where the shift goes?

[Teye]

They have reduced passive mitigation, CDs and AM. If you have the patch notes, please post them, because you seem to know that they have changed everything in a way that results in more emphasis placed into AM.

Many tank abilities that increase maximum health have been reduced in effectiveness: Guarded by the Light, Stance of the Sturdy Ox, Bear Form, Empowered Bear Form, Blood Presence, Veteran of the Third War, Shadow of Death (Enhanced Death Coil), Ursa Major. In most cases, the magnitudes of these effects have been reduced.
Many tank abilities that passively reduce damage taken in some way have been reduced in effectiveness: Unwavering Sentinel, Improved Defensive Stance, Mastery: Critical Block, Defensive Stance, Sanctuary, Guarded by the Light, Stance of the Sturdy Ox, Bear Form, Blood Presence, Primal Fury. In most cases, the magnitudes of these effects have been reduced.

Many tank abilities that provide Active Mitigation have been reduced in effectiveness: Shield Block, Shield Barrier, Shield of the Righteous, Mastery: Divine Bulwark, Bastion of Glory, Guard, Stance of the Sturdy Ox, Shuffle, Savage Defense, Pulverize, Frenzied Regeneration, Tooth and Claw, Death Strike, Rune Tap. In most cases, the frequencies or magnitudes of these effects have been reduced.

Many tank abilities that provided long-cooldown temporary defensive buffs have been reduced in effectiveness: Shield Wall, Last Stand, Demoralizing Shout, Divine Protection, Guardian of Ancient Kings (Protection), Fortifying Brew, Barkskin, Bristling Fur, Survival Instincts, Might of Ursoc, Bone Shield, Dancing Rune Weapon, Icebound Fortitude, Vampiric Blood. In most cases, the durations of these effects have been reduced.
[/B]

Did you actually READ the blue post? Or did you skim over it and panic? Read the bold parts and THINK about the effects that they will have on the game.

When you reduce boss damage and reduce tank health, those effectively cancel each other out. Less required EH, less EH.

When you make major CDs last for less time, it makes externals and AM more important. Your job of calling for externals when you predict spikes in damage becomes more important. AM being "nerfed" is simply an reaction to the reduction of incoming Tank damage. AM will still matter, unless Blizzard overdoes it. If they do, I'm confident it won't go live that way. They wouldn't let the game go live with Fury Warriors tanking.

Tanks have gotten a lot of power creep. A tanking specialized character should be better at tanking than a non-tanking specialized character, obviously. But by how much? 3x? 5x? 10x? It's gotten to be more like 50x or even 100x. Fun fact as a point of comparison: Most of the Mythic raid bosses (first raid tier) we've been testing deal tank damage roughly equivalent to what Heroic Lei Shen (second raid tier) did, after accounting for the squish and level difference. Some even more.

Think about that quote. That's also in the Blue Post that I suspect you skimmed through. That explains the reasoning behind these changes very effectively. If you don't get it, you simply don't get tanking, to be frank.

Again, the sky is not falling. Dry your tears and relax.

[Leih]

Well, the point has been addressed, so not much really we can do until we see the exact changes ingame. Until then it's just their word vs. our random speculation.

Also I have to echo the opinions above about AM. If AM is nerfed too much it will get to a point where it doesn't matter if you use it or not. AM should feel meaningful to use.
Fear not. We're not making anywhere close to that level of change.