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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    My raid group still can't kill him and it's been months. It's those stupid adds. They just randomly all pile onto one person and it's game over. A healer, a dps etc. It's completely random. We easily have the dps by now, but those adds are just not playing nice. lol
    All those kills, just luck I guess.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    All those kills, just luck I guess.
    It is not luck AT ALL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    That's complete rubbish. Theres a million threads explaining how the adds work. If you still think they all randomly just run around after months of trying then you need to l2p. (And I rarely to never say that)
    don't bother. They won't listen to you. They will ALWAYS find some trivial mechanic to blame instead of getting their act together.
    Last edited by Simmias; 2014-04-08 at 07:40 AM.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    My raid group still can't kill him and it's been months. It's those stupid adds. They just randomly all pile onto one person and it's game over. A healer, a dps etc. It's completely random. We easily have the dps by now, but those adds are just not playing nice. lol
    If this is the case, you should consider replacing both of your tanks.
    I've never had this issue, not in LFR, Flex, Normal or Heroic.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Doing a mechanic that stops you from dying is not small.
    It's a small detail of the fight. A very small detail. It is not clearly explained in any of the guides I read. It was never explained clearly to me to anyone I raided with. I often picked up the buff by accident simply by making sure I was close to the adds to the adds when they died, and I am guessing that between deterrence, healthstones and good healers, I often got away with it without realising I had missed a trick. But I did die a few times, and because I am a decent player I figured it out all by myself before the pugs I was with even realised I was screwing up.

    But I guess you aren't interested in all that. You just want to be able to bully some random "bad" on the internet. Grow up dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Completely wrong. I reiterate, PuGs are not for progression.
    No, it is you who are completely wrong. Stop being so hard-headed and incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who have/are continuing to pug SoO. You cannot reasonably argue that they are all the same, with the same motives, expectations, experience, skill etc.

    There are a lot of people who will not, for any number of reasons, progress through the entire raid in an organised group. They will try to do so in a pug if the opportunity presents itself.

    You might not ever do any progression in a pug, and you may even decide you don't want anyone in your pugs who are there for progression, and that is your choice. I would argue that it is a selfish and short-sighted choice*, but it remains your choice.


    *The reason it is short-sighted is as follows:

    If you are joining a pug it means you are using random strangers to help you achieve your objective. In essence, you need the community to supply you with competent pugs to help you steamroller through the instance. It is in your own best interests to help the community to get better...


    PS, the whole rationale behind Blizzard making SoO normal/heroic Cross-Realm capable was precisely to help people who hadn't cleared the instance yet to find pugs to do so with. So stop talking rubbish.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2014-04-08 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #45
    No not really. My 1st kill on garry was a pug. Got it 2nd attempt
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
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  6. #46
    And to stick to the topic, no, Garrosh isn't too hard for a pug.
    If you wipe, replace the people responsible for it.

  7. #47
    Banned Ashtwo's Avatar
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    I've tried pugging normal for weeks, both on my realm and through Openraid.
    I have 14/14hc progress myself and I can say without a doubt that once people get to Garrosh they lose about 70% of their functional skills and all hell breaks loose.

    Seriously, I've seen 14/14hc healers playing on healers die to Iron Star FOUR TIMES in 2 pulls.
    I've seen 14/14hc raiders not know they have Wind Sheer as restoration shaman, even though they kicked Chain Heal on Galakras.
    I've seen people stand in annihilate thinking "It'll be okay, I used Shamanistic Rage".
    I've seen people get to the last phase and flat out ignore the MC even though the boss was on 100m+

    Garrosh is an incredibly easy fight after you've read the tactics and done 2-3 pulls. The fight itself drains all intellectual gameplay and people just start licking windows.

  8. #48
    There's that one PUG I have for my rogue toon that isn't even able to kill Garrosh on flex even though they kill the other 13 bosses on their first attempt. The problem isn't so much understanding of the fight, bringing the DPS or executing a proper movement path, they are just incredibly poor at coordinating interrupts on the mind-controlled players. They get to P3 on one leg and then it all goes boom. Doesn't matter if it's flex, normal or HC if you wipe on that.
    There are too many design flaws in your game. As a result, your customers' game experience may be degraded. Fire or replace the failing developers if you don't want to see this message again.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by qweez View Post
    If this is the case, you should consider replacing both of your tanks.
    I've never had this issue, not in LFR, Flex, Normal or Heroic.
    in lfr you can just stack them up and aoe them down....

  10. #50
    No version of Garrosh can be done with a random group w/o vox that needs any gear from it. (Except Normal geared players looking for Flex heirlooms I suppose.)

    Blizzard should just go ahead and nerf the MC mechanism, or something along those lines.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Smudge View Post
    No version of Garrosh can be done with a random group w/o vox that needs any gear from it. (Except Normal geared players looking for Flex heirlooms I suppose.)
    Nice hyperbole. Too bad it's completely untrue. Unless by random group you mean only people that have never done it before, don't know how to play their class and/or don't know how to gem/enchant their gear. Killed it multiple times in a pug, usually with couple of wipes due to group never having played with each other but it goes down. We didn't bring 530 geared people, no, but that's not what garrosh normal is tuned for anyway. Mostly mixture of 545-565 people, with - say- 6-9 or so that have done it before on normal.

    I don't see what the problem is with the endboss being slightly harder btw. It gives you a bit of a goal to look forward to while still being able to kill 13 other bosses to get more gear. Horridon in ToT was a lot more hassle for pugs to overcome for example, and gave you exactly 1 "easy" boss.

    As to people leaving after 1-4 wipes only: people may not always see the reason for leaving. I've left certain groups (not per se on garrosh) as well quite quickly. Dieing from iron star from a person who's never done the fight before (without voice comm) is perhaps even expected, and that's not the stuff I leave for immediatly. But if you all of a sudden notice tank is super-spikey and died couple of times, then your choice is to suck it up big time and try to explain him how shuffle works for brewmaster, or to just leave. I don't feel like the former most of the time, mostly because people can be quite stubborn and relearning your class while learning a fight doesn't ever seem to end well.

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  12. #52

  13. #53
    for me here is why i wipe on puggarosh:
    75% cause people stop caring about mindcontrol at about 5-10% bosshealt which is always a wipe
    10% low dps leads to a second whirlwind in p3
    10% clumping up of the whirlwind adds when they need to get killed wich leads to tankdeath most of the time
    rest of it is dieying to random crap

    if everybody in the group has killxp and the focus to not tunnelvision in the end it normaly is a sure kill. but i learned to not go with a group where some havnt killed garosh. that might be fine with a guildgroup, but "progress" in pugs is muc harder.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post

    I don't see what the problem is with the endboss being slightly harder btw. It gives you a bit of a goal to look forward to while still being able to kill 13 other bosses to get more gear. Horridon in ToT was a lot more hassle for pugs to overcome for example, and gave you exactly 1 "easy" boss.
    but heres the thing this boss isnt hard at all on flex/normal- its stupitibly easy boring mindnumbing liek fuck 10 minutes of fight and then sudden 3 seconds window where people need to wake up and interupt and most fail on this teribly - and its the same reason horridon was percived so hard for most groups cause most of wow players are to dumb to sudden switch targets and interupt - its jsut a fact most people are to slow if the mc cast was 7-10 seconds the succes rate on garosh would be immensly higher but 3 seconds is just not enough for most - and u end up with having to go thrugh the same boring liek fuck 10 minutes of fight to wipe again on the same 3 second window - this mechanic would be great for hc version of garosh but on normal its just fucking people up like crazy -_-

  15. #55
    High Overlord Xkiller9000's Avatar
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    The difficulty curve jump should happen for the last boss, and either way, Garrosh is insanely easy, its common sense mechanics, kill MCd people, and stand on him when he whirls, dont stand in bad stuff, kill adds, taunt rotation.

  16. #56
    the biggest problem with garrosh is mcs. when the boss is about to die they get excited and just start tunneling.. ignoring the mcs and then they realize its suddenly too late. if he didnt mc he'd be much easier. but its and end boss so its fine being difficult. expecting pugs to kill garrosh on norm is a tall order imo.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    the biggest problem with garrosh is mcs. when the boss is about to die they get excited and just start tunneling.. ignoring the mcs and then they realize its suddenly too late. if he didnt mc he'd be much easier. but its and end boss so its fine being difficult. expecting pugs to kill garrosh on norm is a tall order imo.
    If there's a change I'd like to see in WoD, it'd be that if you are trying to interrupt a target that has just been interrupted by someone in your party, the target is IMMUNE and your interrupt attack is "refunded" to you.

    That would eliminate the need for people to use voice comms or count-and-pray just to do shared interrupts.

    Echo of Tyrande used to annoy the hell out of me that way until everyone overgeared it enough to just miss half (or all) the interrupts.

    Also, bosses that are just blah blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah blah then after seven minutes ONE TRICKY THING, I really despise in random groups. They are so demoralizing. "Single target the tentacles" et cetera.

  18. #58
    Personally, I think Garrosh is *much* more approachable for pugs then Lich King was when it was current.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    but heres the thing this boss isnt hard at all on flex/normal- its stupitibly easy boring mindnumbing liek fuck 10 minutes of fight and then sudden 3 seconds window where people need to wake up and interupt and most fail on this teribly - and its the same reason horridon was percived so hard for most groups cause most of wow players are to dumb to sudden switch targets and interupt - its jsut a fact most people are to slow if the mc cast was 7-10 seconds the succes rate on garosh would be immensly higher but 3 seconds is just not enough for most - and u end up with having to go thrugh the same boring liek fuck 10 minutes of fight to wipe again on the same 3 second window - this mechanic would be great for hc version of garosh but on normal its just fucking people up like crazy -_-
    3 seconds is plenty, it's also a nice preparation for the next few bosses on heroic because you'll also need interrupts on protectors, galakras and nazgrim hc (and to a lesser extent on some of the other bosses too). On my shaman I can drop my stun totem pre-emptively and interrupt myself for full 5 seconds actually, it's really not hard.
    One of the other issues is stubborn raid leaders who only know 1 tactic and stick with it. If you got 3 good ranged dps or healers who have done it before, the best tactic is definitly stack up so MC's get broken easily, and then the 3 run out for his axe. But noooo, let's split into 2 groups because "that's how I learned to do it".

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  20. #60
    When I tried it x-realm, it was full of fail, even at 565+. I've tried it in 3 groups, for a total of 4 hours (just Garrosh, mind you). In all 3 groups the tanks were bad, and people didn't get the whole "kill adds apart from each other," because we sure as hell didn't have the dps to force phase 3 (in part because these pug groups are organized by people who think you need to 2-tank it).

    Sigh.

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