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  1. #121
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    I have not been playing a rogoue for some time, but the backstab thing will certanly not bring me back. Whats the point of playing a backstabing class if you do it from the front? For all you others that like this change, have fun.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    I have not been playing a rogoue for some time, but the backstab thing will certanly not bring me back. Whats the point of playing a backstabing class if you do it from the front? For all you others that like this change, have fun.
    All my "Wat?"
    Are you seriously elevating Backstab to the sole single reason people are attracted to the entire rogue-archetype?

  3. #123
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    All my "Wat?"
    Are you seriously elevating Backstab to the sole single reason people are attracted to the entire rogue-archetype?
    Jumping from stealth on to people, yeah. And amubsh. Hitting people on the back when greeting them from behind yelling backstab/ambush is a normal thing in my town due to wow.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofer View Post
    Uh, no. Mangle got removed off cat due to the ability pruning. Same way Swipe got removed from bear, rogues losing a CD etc etc.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zaxHhGI#t=1216

  5. #125
    Man, i love you. No homo. That quote is a friggn treasure.

    But hey, lets prune Premed instead of Backstab.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    I have not been playing a rogoue for some time, but the backstab thing will certanly not bring me back. Whats the point of playing a backstabing class if you do it from the front? For all you others that like this change, have fun.
    Did you ever play rogue? They already took away your backstab from everything that used it originally. They just shoved it elsewhere, specifically in a place it had no god damn business being... so yeah, I want it gone because the only place it exists now is the place where it never belonged.

    If you were going to complain about losing the 'flavor' of backstab, you should have launched your campaign at the start of BC when they killed combat daggers because that is when phasing out backstab started... and it ended with MoP when they removed backstab entirely from assassination.

    Also, rogues as a class haven't been a backstabbing class since vanilla. SS/Hemo ruled BC, mut got its positional req removed in wotlk.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    I have not been playing a rogoue for some time, but the backstab thing will certanly not bring me back. Whats the point of playing a backstabing class if you do it from the front? For all you others that like this change, have fun.
    You think people roll this class because they like their abilities being limited to position/facing requirements?

  8. #128
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    What irks me most is that people justify bad design by effectiveness. Yeah, duh, rogues are consistently top melee DPS, that alone doesn't make them fun (besides for min-maxers who focus on numbers.). Gameplay does.
    I enjoy playing a rogue. I think it's fun. It would not be fair to everyone who actually enjoys playing rogue if they changed the class to cater to all the people who don't like playing rogue, but for some reason want to. If you don't like they way rogue plays then reroll to something else. There surely is some other class out there that you can have fun with? (And if not, it's probably not the class, but rather the game.) Leave the rogue class as it is for the people who enjoy it to continue to enjoy it. Huge overhauls is not a good thing, and surely not needed for the rogue class.

  9. #129
    Brewmaster Nurvus's Avatar
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    Backstab is going to be useable from the side.
    It's a very iconic ability and unless Blizzard manages to dynamically change its name when you're in front of a target to "Facestab", I don't see the point in changing it.

    On a side-note:
    Subtlety should really be about shadowy stuff and stealth abilities.
    I'd completely replace Honor Among Thieves with a "Shadow Blade" proc that enables the use of stealth abilities for the next 3 seconds, and has 1 charge (means you can only use one).
    Furthermore, Shadow Dance should trigger and maintain Master of Subtlety while active.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    I enjoy playing a rogue. I think it's fun. It would not be fair to everyone who actually enjoys playing rogue if they changed the class to cater to all the people who don't like playing rogue, but for some reason want to. If you don't like they way rogue plays then reroll to something else. There surely is some other class out there that you can have fun with? (And if not, it's probably not the class, but rather the game.) Leave the rogue class as it is for the people who enjoy it to continue to enjoy it. Huge overhauls is not a good thing, and surely not needed for the rogue class.
    So the only solution for thinking that a class needs something is to not play it?
    Jeez, that nobody thought of that…
    oh wait… most people did and rerolled. It is the very reason why the population is so low.
    People are getting chased away from the class, and in the meantime the class apparently does not appear to be interesting enough for people to start a new one.

    You say it would not be fair to anyone who does enjoy the current state of rogue, but that way of thinking is what drove people away from the class in the first place.

    As for myself: I do like the class, but I can clearly see the flaws. Just go level a rogue from 85 to 90 right now, and step into Mogushan vaults with an ilvl of 463 (the level most of us were when we started raiding) and you will notice what the problem is after you have played for half an hour before you look at what your damage is comprised of.

    No matter how much you love the class, saying there are no issues with the current state of it, seems a bit shortsighted i.m.o.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellash View Post
    Backstab is going to be useable from the side.
    Backstab is already usable from the side try it out on a dummy.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    I enjoy playing a rogue. I think it's fun. It would not be fair to everyone who actually enjoys playing rogue if they changed the class to cater to all the people who don't like playing rogue, but for some reason want to. If you don't like they way rogue plays then reroll to something else.
    So its completely fair to everyone who originally liked sub that they changed the spec to cater to people who didn't like sub and liked the backstab mechanics of the other two specs? Sounds like a pretty glaringly obvious contradiction. I don't see how you can be against changing the spec now to cater to all the people who dont like playing with backstab, but think its fine that backstab is a part of sub at all when it is only there for that same reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellash View Post
    Backstab is going to be useable from the side.
    It's a very iconic ability and unless Blizzard manages to dynamically change its name when you're in front of a target to "Facestab", I don't see the point in changing it.
    Your logic is god awful. By your logic, they need to dynamically change the name to side stab when you're attacking from the side. Just because it isn't the front doesn't mean the side is somehow equivalent to the back.

    And again, backstab is an iconic rogue ability, but backstab is not an iconic sub ability.

  13. #133
    Somebody enlighten me as to where I should be standing to Backstab this guy:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7875680/noback.png

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    I enjoy playing a rogue. I think it's fun. It would not be fair to everyone who actually enjoys playing rogue if they changed the class to cater to all the people who don't like playing rogue, but for some reason want to. If you don't like they way rogue plays then reroll to something else. There surely is some other class out there that you can have fun with? (And if not, it's probably not the class, but rather the game.) Leave the rogue class as it is for the people who enjoy it to continue to enjoy it. Huge overhauls is not a good thing, and surely not needed for the rogue class.
    FYI, i didnt talk about enjoyment. i talked about justifying stuff like backstab with "but it deals more damage than hemo".
    the "enjoyment" of backstabbing would still be there with the proposal from the OP.

    i think that having three specs has enough room for conservative players (mut and combat especially). sub has undergone so many iterations from vanilla that i think it's just muddled at this point, so yeah, why not risk some things from time to time. look at the work mages got for example.

    and, yeah, i rerolled many times. doesn't make me give up on my favourite archetype.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dak1 View Post
    Somebody enlighten me as to where I should be standing to Backstab this guy:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7875680/noback.png
    Step 1: Recieve Error Message
    Step 2: Move randomly
    Step 3: ???
    Step 4: Profit!

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    ...
    The second is situational: your Tank is a independent entity which doesn't care for you stabbing shennanigans. It moves out of bad, it tries to catch adds, etc. The boss usually follows those (sometimes quite spastic) movements.
    ...
    As a tank, I have always taken melees' positioning into account. For the longest time, there were some who refused to dps from behind the boss. Including encounters where it boned me over trying to compensate for their poor positioning. There are still melee dps who screw up pulls because they can't wait for a boss to get into position.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by dak1 View Post
    Somebody enlighten me as to where I should be standing to Backstab this guy:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7875680/noback.png

    Looks like a UI issue my friend.
    Dropndestroy | i7-3770k 4.6Ghz | EVGA GTX 680 SC Signature+ SLI | ASUS Maximus V Formula | G.Skill 16gb 2400 | AX850

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Dropndestroyrr View Post
    Looks like a UI issue my friend.
    That is a hit and miss. His UI isn't good by any stretch, but UI isn't able to resolve any problems with that position in that situation.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    That is a hit and miss. His UI isn't good by any stretch, but UI isn't able to resolve any problems with that position in that situation.
    Appreciate the judgmental attitudes toward my UI. There were very few sprites over the actual battle, so my UI had effectively no impact there... as for the rest of the UI... it works for me. If you prefer something different, great, use what works for you. My focus is keeping track of DRs, juggling debuffs/buffs, and tracking things like Subterfuge, trinket procs, enemy trinkets/racials, and offensive/defensive CDs. It seems to work for me.
    Last edited by dak1; 2014-04-25 at 04:21 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by dak1 View Post
    Appreciate the judgmental attitudes toward my UI. There were very few sprites over the actual battle, so my UI had effectively no impact there... as for the rest of the UI... it works for me. If you prefer something different, great, use what works for you. My focus is keeping track of DRs, juggling debuffs/buffs, and tracking things like Subterfuge, trinket procs, enemy trinkets/racials, and offensive/defensive CDs. It seems to work for me.
    Didn't want to offend you or sound condescending, but as a designer i can tell you that there would be better solutions for most of your needed information.
    I know many people still think that stuff like that is subjective, like aesthetics or art: but thanks to perceptual psychology etc. today, we know for fact how we digest visual information. So yeah, of course it's okay if you can work with that, but it isn't optimal. That's all i wanted to say no offense.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    i think that having three specs has enough room for conservative players (mut and combat especially). sub has undergone so many iterations from vanilla that i think it's just muddled at this point, so yeah, why not risk some things from time to time. look at the work mages got for example.
    Maintaining 3 different specs is no excuse to needlessly screw one spec out of 34 over due to positioning. Its muddled because they're forcing something in that doesn't belong. They could easily put it back where it was in the first place...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    As a tank, I have always taken melees' positioning into account. For the longest time, there were some who refused to dps from behind the boss. Including encounters where it boned me over trying to compensate for their poor positioning. There are still melee dps who screw up pulls because they can't wait for a boss to get into position.
    As do most good tanks, but you can't seriously tell me that you have never once turned a mob out of backstabable positioning suddenly for any reason whatsoever right? Mechanics, picking up loose mobs, etc, anything that causes you to move potentially screws over positional attacks.

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