1. #1

    No Hit Rating for PVE Rogues in WoD?

    Am i the only one freaking out about this? Maybe my perception is wrong but if i remember correctly, when my rogue is a fresh max level with zero hit rating it's impossible to do decent DPS.
    Any pro PVE Rogue around here that could elaborate on this topic and the consequences for rogues?

    "Dual-wield classes (rogues, enhancement shamans, frost DK's, fury warriors, potentially windwalker monks) will have an additional 17% chance to miss with no way to improve it in order to balance their DPS out against 2h users."
    WoWinsider

    Nowadays all rogues have 24% chance to miss attacks (19% of DW + 5% base miss chance).
    So this means in WoD will be 17% + 5% = 22% to miss attacks or will simply be 17% miss chance? What are the consequences of this?
    The primary stat to improve on a fresh rogue raider was always "hit rating". Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Shadowpunkz; 2014-04-30 at 04:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Everyone will get the equivalent of 7.5% hit and expertise. You won't notice a change.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    953
    the 5% is being removed so it'll be 17% miss chance for all dual wielders.

    looks like single 2h is the way to go.

  4. #4
    EDIT: Nevermind I should read entire articles before posting about it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezhial View Post
    "All players now have a 100% chance to hit, 0% chance to be dodged, 3% chance to be parried, and 0% chance to glance, when fighting creatures up to 3 levels higher (bosses included)."

    That's from a blue in the post you linked, and I thought I remember hearing this at last Blizzcon.
    Might want to read the WHOLE quote:

    All players now have a 100% chance to hit, 0% chance to be dodged, 3% chance to be parried, and 0% chance to glance, when fighting creatures up to 3 levels higher (bosses included).
    Tank specializations receive an additional 3% reduction in chance to be parried, so tank attacks have a 0% chance to be parried vs. creatures up to 3 levels higher.
    Creatures 4+ levels higher than you still have a chance to avoid your attacks in various ways, so as to discourage you from attempting to fight enemies that are much stronger than you.
    Dual Wielding still imposes a 17% chance to miss, so as to balance it with two-handed weapon use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  6. #6
    Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.
    Also no numbers tuning has been done yet at this stage of development, they are more concerned about getting everyones rotations right with everyones new abilities and perks and changes.
    Randomly speculating that because of X mechanical change; damage might be lower, doesn't make sense because they will tune all the numbers to where they want them to be once they have finished with the mechanical changes.

    They went though this process in MoP beta too.
    Class changes first.
    Number changes second.
    _____________________________________________
    Also known as Kalrell ingame and @Kalrell on Twitters.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinzaram View Post
    Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.
    Niiiiice! That's what i always wanted. The 24% miss chance on rogues is the most frustrating thing ever. I made my decision, i am going to be combat rogue for the first time in WoD ^-^)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Am i the only one freaking out about this? Maybe my perception is wrong but if i remember correctly, when my rogue is a fresh max level with zero hit rating it's impossible to do decent DPS.
    Any pro PVE Rogue around here that could elaborate on this topic and the consequences for rogues?

    "Dual-wield classes (rogues, enhancement shamans, frost DK's, fury warriors, potentially windwalker monks) will have an additional 17% chance to miss with no way to improve it in order to balance their DPS out against 2h users."
    WoWinsider

    Nowadays all rogues have 24% chance to miss attacks (19% of DW + 5% base miss chance).
    So this means in WoD will be 17% + 5% = 22% to miss attacks or will simply be 17% miss chance? What are the consequences of this?
    The primary stat to improve on a fresh rogue raider was always "hit rating". Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.

    Thoughts?
    There is no base miss chance anymore other than the 17% you mentioned which only goes for auto attacks. Specials will never miss anymore, and specials were the main reason you go for hit rating above all else. Once you have enough hit rating to never miss specials, the value of hit rating dived or became completely useless if you weren't dual wielding.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinzaram View Post
    Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.
    Nice, I'm really happy about this. Not even because of damage increase, but just because not being able to miss "feels" more fun. Having also played hard hit capped lowbie combat rogue alt (not my main rogue) always landing auto attacks felt much more rewarding.

  10. #10
    Improved Ambidexterity also boosts energy regen.

  11. #11
    The question is not wether this will be better or worse, the answer is obviously better.

    The question is why they even added Hit rating into the game in the first place...

    Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.
    While I primarily agree with this, this isn't what Blizzard thinks, or we'd never have seen RPPM trinkets pop up, or cloaks/meta run on the same system, and see gargantuan DPS swings for equal play from 1 pull to another. If you have a crucial time in the fight that occurs at the same time every time, you can save CDs for it... but since CDs alone pale hard in comparison to CDs and trinkets, you really shouldn't expect to get the same DPS each pull, generally with the exception (not always) of the first 20 seconds. Granted, there are specs that suffer from this way more than any rogue spec (feral, affliction, demo, balance, others I'm not thinking of), but the DPS swing is fairly large even for us -- and outside of snapshotting issues, Blizzard likes that aspect.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    The question is not wether this will be better or worse, the answer is obviously better.

    The question is why they even added Hit rating into the game in the first place...

    Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.
    RNG isn't inherently a bad thing, without RNG rotations would be totally static. Obviously too much RNG is bad but no rogue spec is really a casino spec like an undergeared boomkin or a cata ret pally. There is a sweet spot for RNG and I think Blizzard has done a pretty good job with it for rogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    While I primarily agree with this, this isn't what Blizzard thinks, or we'd never have seen RPPM trinkets pop up, or cloaks/meta run on the same system, and see gargantuan DPS swings for equal play from 1 pull to another.
    '
    RPPM is a great system for thinks like the legendary items and weapon enchants, it is a strictly better version of the old PPM system which they used for those in previous expansions. RPPM isn't so good for trinkets but that is partially related to trinket procs being insanely powerful rather than any inherent problems with the rogue spec. Blizzard has said they don't like the results of the really powerful trinket procs so they plan to tone those way down, if trinkets do get toned down substantially then RPPM could be a fine system for trinkets. I really like the approach they used this tier, basically RPPM trinkets had more average case stats to compensate for the reduced reliability, just like on use trinkets tend to have less average case stats than a proc trinket.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •