1. #1

    SUB Rogue Horrible Consistancy, low DPS, and overall blah (Logs/Armory included)

    Alright, now I boosted this rogue about a month ago, and only really started playing him hard for the last 2-3 weeks.

    I am looking for some OBVIOUS errors i am making. Thanks for the help!

    Entire Log from BRF/HM
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/fPdCqM2rvHmTBkJF/

    Butcher Fight (I did decent on by my standards)
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/fPdCqM2rvHmTBkJF/#fight=13&type=damage-done

    Brack fight (Did the best)
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/fPdCqM2rvHmTBkJF/#fight=16&type=damage-done

    And my armory:
    epicwowarmory.com/wow-armory-14254409.html

  2. #2
    Only looked at Butcher and Gruul, because those are easy to analyze.
    Slice and Dice uptime and Rupture uptime are both low. You should aim to have both up 100% of the time. If you are having a hard time tracking these, look into an addon solution such as Weak Auras.

    Cooldowns weren't used often enough. Cooldown management is cruical to playing Sub properly. You should aim to be using Shadow Dance and Vanish pretty close to on cooldown (without overlapping them with eachother) in order to maximize your uptime on Find Weakness. Always aim to cast an Ambush as soon as you activate the CD in order to get Find Weakness started ASAP, and also make sure to cast Ambush right before Shadow Dance / Subterfuge end in order to maximize the duration of FW.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Cedande's Avatar
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    Why use epic armory if your toons name is on your logs? No one is going to name and shame you. Anyways, your biggest issue by quite a large margin is that your rupture uptime is below 50% and your Slice and Dice is below 95. You should be aiming for as close to 100 as you can get.

    You're missing enchants on all of your enchantable items and missing a gem in your gloves, huge amount of multistrike you're missing out on. After getting your rupture uptime as close to 100% as you can you want to start working on pooling energy before using shadow dance so that you can fit as many eviscerates into Find Weakness as you can. Almost everything after that is learned by playing the spec and having it become natural.
    Last edited by Cedande; 2015-02-21 at 01:20 AM.

  4. #4
    You're using subterfuge without glyph of vanish, the glyph allows you to get 3 ambushes off with vanish as opposed to 2, use the glyph for a dps gain (remembering to pool to 100+ before to ensure 3 ambushes, and more importantly to increase FW uptime even more.) or if you do not wish to use this glyph take shadow focus instead.

  5. #5
    This is some amazing information! Thank you all!
    How are you able to tell the rupture uptime from the logs? (So I can track my progress)

    Also, I used epic armory not for being secret, it just happened to be the first on Google lol.

    Lastly, do I pool energy throughout the fight or just when I am about to dance?

  6. #6
    Pool it for dance and vanish and when you need to pool in the encounter, that depends on the encounter. The more you play the rogue the more you will get a 'feel' for it.

  7. #7
    Usually when you don't have find weakness up you have no reason to cast much other than if your going to cap energy cast backstab, apply hemo (don't refresh it when Find weakness is up and dont refresh it until its run out) keep your rupture and silce and dice up.

    When Shadow dance gets to like a 15sec CD, stack your CPs up to ten with anticipation then rupture slice and dice and go ham with shadow dance and ambush. You need to remember that in a raid combo points will generate themselves through honour among thieves, so as long as your not capping energy you don't need to really cast much.

    Try to maximise your up time of find weakness it's where most of your damage comes from make sure you utilize your vanishes as its about to run out and end shadow dance with an Ambush. Like already said you wanna fit as much in to shadow dance as you can which is why you pool energy for it and combo points to make sure you don't have to refresh slice and dice or rupture while shadow dance is active.

    Sorry for the wall of text :P

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by moneyblind View Post
    How are you able to tell the rupture uptime from the logs? (So I can track my progress)
    First we go to the logs, let's use this for an example:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    Next you press your name, and you'll come here:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5

    Next you can do a few different:
    Either A) Press rupture and the uptime is on the right.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5&ability=1943

    Or B) Press the tab called "Debuffs" and then just under it "Cast by friendly" and you'll be taken to a screen where you can see all debuffs:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uffs&by=target

    I prefer B since it easily shows where it's down (this works the same way for buffs if you press the "Buffs" tab). In your case, it's very spread. You NEED a way to track your rupture. Try to refresh it with 5 combo points when it goes under 7.2 seconds duration. You'll get a feel for planning ahead

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosvall View Post
    First we go to the logs, let's use this for an example:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    Next you press your name, and you'll come here:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5

    Next you can do a few different:
    Either A) Press rupture and the uptime is on the right.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5&ability=1943

    Or B) Press the tab called "Debuffs" and then just under it "Cast by friendly" and you'll be taken to a screen where you can see all debuffs:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uffs&by=target

    I prefer B since it easily shows where it's down (this works the same way for buffs if you press the "Buffs" tab). In your case, it's very spread. You NEED a way to track your rupture. Try to refresh it with 5 combo points when it goes under 7.2 seconds duration. You'll get a feel for planning ahead
    There is already a uptime tab in the damage done tab, you can also click on the + sign to the right and get a graph above the main damage graph so you can compare when you're doing stuff and how they align.


  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Azerano;32415957]There is already a uptime tab in the damage done tab, you can also click on the + sign to the right and get a graph above the main damage graph so you can compare when you're doing stuff and how they align.

    i.imgur.com/zOkTWxHl.png

    Wow! this helps a ton too, I can visually see that rupture is a huge amount of damage!!

    Ashleybp
    Usually when you don't have find weakness up you have no reason to cast much other than if your going to cap energy cast backstab, apply hemo (don't refresh it when Find weakness is up and dont refresh it until its run out) keep your rupture and silce and dice up.

    When Shadow dance gets to like a 15sec CD, stack your CPs up to ten with anticipation then rupture slice and dice and go ham with shadow dance and ambush. You need to remember that in a raid combo points will generate themselves through honour among thieves, so as long as your not capping energy you don't need to really cast much.

    Try to maximise your up time of find weakness it's where most of your damage comes from make sure you utilize your vanishes as its about to run out and end shadow dance with an Ambush. Like already said you wanna fit as much in to shadow dance as you can which is why you pool energy for it and combo points to make sure you don't have to refresh slice and dice or rupture while shadow dance is active.

    Sorry for the wall of text :P
    Alright, now I am constantly SPAMMING backstab........ is that not right? Should I just use backstab when my energy is about to cap? Would this not lower the number of eviscirates i can cram in there?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by moneyblind View Post
    Alright, now I am constantly SPAMMING backstab........ is that not right? Should I just use backstab when my energy is about to cap? Would this not lower the number of eviscirates i can cram in there?
    Energy pooling (as long as you're not capping) doesn't result in any less eviscerates because spamming won't generate any more energy.

    What pooling does is it shifts energy usage to windows where your cooldowns (Dance/Reflection and Vanish) are up so you can ambush/backstab/eviscerate spam within find weakness and do higher damage per energy instead of spamming backstab outside find weakness and entering these cooldown windows with no energy.

    Granted, you can just watch your CDs and just start pooling 5~ seconds before one's about to be up and spam away before that.

    It should be noted that if you have the T17 2pc bonus, you shouldn't be pooling for Dance but pooling for Vanish is still important

  12. #12
    Common mistakes/advice :
    - Don't waste premeditation points. Only use premeditation if you are at 3 cp or less. You may fail if you macro'd ambush with premeditation.
    - Try to extend Find Weakness uptime as much as you can. For exemple : don't dance after a vanish ambush.
    - Pool your energy before dance : dance is wasted if you can't get the maximum out of it.
    - Don't hemo.
    - Maximize uptime on Slash and Dice & Rupture.
    - Macro Shadow Dance with Shadow Reflection & Trinkets.

    You may check out my UI; it helped some track all important stuff. http://youtu.be/bQczzWCnbUU

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Poimu View Post
    Common mistakes/advice :
    - Don't waste premeditation points. Only use premeditation if you are at 3 cp or less. You may fail if you macro'd ambush with premeditation.
    - Try to extend Find Weakness uptime as much as you can. For exemple : don't dance after a vanish ambush.
    - Pool your energy before dance : dance is wasted if you can't get the maximum out of it.
    - Don't hemo.
    - Maximize uptime on Slash and Dice & Rupture.
    - Macro Shadow Dance with Shadow Reflection & Trinkets.

    You may check out my UI; it helped some track all important stuff.

    Don't hemo at all???? Thats interesting
    Last edited by moneyblind; 2015-02-22 at 10:15 PM.

  14. #14
    The hemo thing is hit and miss tbh, it is a minor dps gain suposedly as in really almost unnoticable, there are times however where using hemo with glyph of hemorrhaging veins is useful when you can't reapply rupture at times, I find it to be a pretty core thing to be able to manage.

  15. #15
    Short story; you want to hemo when
    1) Not using Hemo will make you lose SV.
    2) The Hemo DoT will almost only be up when Find Weakness is down.
    3) Boss is turned facing you and you will cap energy before you can get in position to backstab.

  16. #16
    I have not read all posts but your opener seems horribly wrong, what you wanna do step by step

    - -10s apply Premed & Tricks
    - -1.5s SnD
    - -0.5 PrePot
    - -0 ShadowStep Garrote
    - Ambush
    - pool 5 cp
    - SR+Rupture+Trinkets
    - ShD
    - Ambush/Evis/Rupture till ShD runs out

    from there on you would play normal priority list, wait for fw to go <3 sec pool energy till about ~ 80-100 Vanish and continue with Ambush/evis/Rupture, also keep ab eye on your energy, you want to ambush as late as possible before the second subterfuge runs out.

    you can play with hemo you dont have, i personally do because im used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poimu View Post
    - Macro Shadow Dance with Shadow Reflection & Trinkets.
    Thats something you never want to do, given a fight has a predictable fight length, lets say 3.45 then you would want to use your first 3 shds on CD,
    but you dont want to use SR on cd because there is a chance that you would miss a ShD+SR with Trinket proccs, if your Trinkets would procc at about 3 min because at that point you wouldnt have SR up, since you macroed it into ShD, while its fine to macro 2 minute Trinkets into SR.
    Last edited by Redanqt; 2015-02-24 at 07:59 AM.

  17. #17
    I am thinking that you may not have any sort of timer addons tracking your buffs/debuffs.
    WeakAuras is quite popular and there are many places you can find strings for Subtlety-specific timers.
    There are also a few rogue-specific addons at Curse.

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