crimson tempest

[Ron Burgundy]

are you guys happy with how this spell turned out? when do you guys use it?

[Wow]

For mop overall its a terrible spell what they are doing for it in wod should have happened in mop beta but as we know they wanted nothing but to just say 'we disagree'.

For the most part you'll only use it aoe'ing as sub you can use it as other specs but its barely worth it and rarely are the conditions met for using for them.

[Lesane]

are you guys happy with how this spell turned out? when do you guys use it?

No and never.

[Mascotte]

No and never.
Its just worthless.
Decent idea, horrible execution.

[ro9ue]

hate this ability. everything about it.

[Senftw]

No, and I honestly think it would be alot nicer as a sub only spell. Mut rogue envenom rupture aoe is interesting, combat has blade flurry, keep specs distinct.

[banur]

CT is just bad.

[Verain]

Really great move, but:

1)- It's only gear scaling is sub, where it scales TERRIBLY with haste. The dot doesn't roll, so if you can jam CT every second... well, that doesn't actually deal much damage at all, as you are always overwriting the dot.
2)- The dot isn't good enough for that kind of treatment- if the dot was super powerful, the rotation could involve one CT with, say, three adds, and maintain the dot. But, it doesn't. A ton of adds are needed.
3)- It's optimal for all specs, but when there's that much aoe, the rogue is not needed to aoe. This is the real killer, and why the whole thread is full of people thinking it's bad. What's bad is rogue aoe. It's so bad, in fact, that it's NEVER worth doing- the rogue should tunnel the boss, and the classes who get a trainful of aoe for free should press those buttons instead. The delta is so shocking that aoe is almost never the rogue's job, and no one uses it.


CT needed a pretty solid buff in the first tier of all of this. They actually multiplied the dot portion by like five at one point- that's how bad the move was before. It's still very poor, even though it is totally worth using.

The move FEELS great- it's upfront damage as a finisher, and an aoe finisher is inherently awesome. Then it leaves a dot. The problem is... those numbers are all crap. Just, so so bad.



The bugfix to the nonrolling dot- one of the few like this left in the game- is actually under our class notes as a feature of the expansion. Meanwhile, combat loses the bleed part (combat has had every single dot removed, which will probably remove it from pvp completely). But without massive fixes to the hugely deviant aoe situation, rogues will never use it.



Core issue is, if a lock does quintuple my aoe dps and the fight has a section where aoe dps super matters, you just ignore any raid instruction or whining noob telling you to aoe and tunnel the boss- you turn on flurry if combat, and maybe throw a couple fans and CTs for dots, but mostly your rotation is single target. The exception is if the single target focus is hiding or invincible- then you aoe as best you can and play along as if you were a real class, every single one of which is capable of at least triple your aoe damage (class not spec, browsing trolls- rogues are a whole class with three whole specs, just like yours!).

But mostly you just ignore aoe calls, because any situation where CT is optimal is really optimal for you to tunnel boss and the aoe guys to polish it off. If it's a 20 second aoe phase ,you'll shorten it at most a second, but lose massive single target in exchange.




Now to the other rogues- do any of you dislike Crimson Tempest, or just the version we got that does no damage and is bugged to be crap? Would you like it if it was actually good and made you do good aoe?

[Wow]

CT needed a pretty solid buff in the first tier of all of this. They actually multiplied the dot portion by like five at one point- that's how bad the move was before. It's still very poor, even though it is totally worth using.

I think it was a 700% buff to the dot lol.

I like ct ok as sub, because it works other than the lack of rolling dot and what I mean by that isn't just its dmg its the fact that only sub has the cp's to even really use it. Even if it did real dmg for combat or assassination it would be pretty weak to use and most of the time aoeing in raids is burst aoe and with cp's with fok are so slow compared it barely gets any use for them.

I think the main issue here is its a button for sustained aoe but that very rarely has a use even if it was good/fixed.

[Belize]

"Crimson Tempest" omg. I think I just found my favorite analogy to use in the future. Thank you rogues!

[OneSent]

Not happy with how it turned out, but it sounds great on paper and I think it has potential.

[SilkDath]

The changes in wod, if they go through, will strengthen it, it will become a natural part of our aoe rotation.

[shadowboy]

Core issue is, if a lock does quintuple my aoe dps and the fight has a section where aoe dps super matters, you just ignore any raid instruction or whining noob telling you to aoe and tunnel the boss- you turn on flurry if combat, and maybe throw a couple fans and CTs for dots, but mostly your rotation is single target. The exception is if the single target focus is hiding or invincible- then you aoe as best you can and play along as if you were a real class, every single one of which is capable of at least triple your aoe damage (class not spec, browsing trolls- rogues are a whole class with three whole specs, just like yours!).

You'll want to Fan as a Rogue to boost the effectiveness of your warlock teammate(s)--just to spread master poisoner. Sure an affliction lock can do it too, but it costs him/her a soul shard that could be used for haunt or for a soulburn:soul swap to multidot. That and not many affliction locks these days anyway.

[Verain]

The big problem is how they design aoes to have such wildly different values. Deltas like 15% seem to be unacceptable in their design (but they wont' always fix them, but sometimes will), but deltas of over 400% are for some reason acceptable in burst AND sustained aoe, as are rather crippling limitations. I mean, several fights with meaningful aoe also hurt melee if they stand such that they are capable of said aoe at all.

It's also very "three specs and they all suck shit" when it comes to aoe damage. We should have choices as to how we deal aoe damage- cleave, dot, burst, that sort of thing, and those should actually be good at that.

[Sesshou]

Of course they all suck shit... probably intentional. You remember the whining when we had a cleave spec and an ae spec and omfg people had to swap specs for certain encounters to make use out of it?

I'd love for them to do what you're suggesting and give each spec its niche on non single target situations, but I'm afraid they're intentionally keeping them as homogenized as possible because they don't want people to feel like they need to swap specs for encounters.