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  1. #101
    All you've shown is that everyone except Warlocks are around the same dps wise. Clearly we just need to nerf warlocks and keep everyone else where they are.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    The point I was making is that shadow is not "dead last" for single target dps. Jugg is probably the best fight to judge this by as it's not really a fight you can cheese much (compared to the other 13 bosses) and it is a single target fight that has the least movement required (compared to malk). Juggernaut is basically the "pathwerk" fight this tier.
    I'm sorry but are you actually being serious?
    You are actually hurting my brain.
    Are you really comparing top parses? :P Also even if you were right, you found 1 class on each boss and you're arguing that because we're 10k dps above that class we aren't dead last? Both classes are dead last.
    Also what everyone is trying to make you understand here is that HAVING 1 DOT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A MULTI DOT SPECC... Even if that 1 DoT significally increases your OTHER spells' dmg. If the highest amount of your dps actually comes DIRECTLY from that DoT, THEN it's a multidot specc.
    You've gone full retard with Demo also. Having the choice to play Demo and it being viable doesn't mean that anyone should pick it over affliction. It's like saying "Herp derp i'll play MM hunter on protectors".
    Same with frost mages.
    You quite can't understand the notion of "Those classes have options to increase their DPS, if they take them or not it's at their own discretion, WE DON'T"
    You're arguing with actual data... Statistically sound data, not your data that cut out everything that didn't support your claim.
    Last edited by Zoulis; 2014-04-19 at 01:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    We're driving lemon VWs while everyone else is driving Cadillacs. Warlocks are riding in a limo.
    Zoulis of Uknown Entity

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoulis View Post
    I'm sorry but are you actually being serious?
    You are actually hurting my brain.
    Besides the fact that you're linking only the 2 percentiles that SPs are ahead of rets.. and the rest SPs are dead last, You found 1 class on each boss and you're arguing that because we're 10k dps above that class we aren't dead last? Both classes are dead last.
    Also what everyone is trying to make you understand here is that HAVING 1 DOT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A MULTI DOT SPECC... Even if that 1 DoT significally increases your OTHER spells' dmg. If the highest amount of your dps actually comes DIRECTLY from that DoT, THEN it's a multidot specc.
    You've gone full retard with Demo also. Having the choice to play Demo and it being viable doesn't mean that anyone should pick it over affliction. It's like saying "Herp derp i'll play MM hunter on protectors".
    Same with frost mages.
    You quite can't understand the notion of "Those classes have options to increase their DPS, if they take them or not it's at their own discretion, WE DON'T"
    You're arguing with actual data... Statistically sound data, not your data that cut out everything that didn't support your claim.
    hmm? You realize screaming "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT" but having nothing to prove your claims doesn't actually make you right you know? Read my post where I posted warcraft logs ranking and you'll see the rank 1 spriest is ahead of rank 1 ret pally. Rank 2 spriest is ahead of rank 2 ret pally. Rank 3 spriest is ahead of rank 3 ret pally. Rank 4 spriest is ahead of rank 4 ret pally. It's consistent data. It's not RNG, it's not me screaming "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG". Everywhere you look shadow is ahead of ret. There can only be 1 "dead last" and it isn't shadow.

    If destruction was not a multi dotting spec then they could get away with not multi dotting immolate and not missing out on a large portion of their dps. Sorry but that is not the case. A destruction warlock who multi dots on protectors will do A LOT more dps than one who doesn't. That ONE SINGLE DoT makes a HUGE difference in your dps.
    >Multi dotting immolate as destruction is just as important to their dps as multi dotting on a mage/shadow/affliction/demo/survival is to their dps. If not even more important.
    >To be considered a "multi dotter" your dot(s) have to play a MAJOR role in your overall dps. That is the case with destruction as immolate plays a bigger and bigger roles on destruction damage the more targets you put it on.
    1 DoT significally increases your OTHER spells' dmg.
    Actually that's exactly what a multi dotter is basically. That 1 dot plays a big role in how much dps you do.

    If the highest amount of your dps actually comes DIRECTLY from that DoT, THEN it's a multidot specc.
    It basically does, I could go into some math and tell you exactly how many chaos bolts/shadowburns you could cast from multi dotting immolate on protectors opposed to not multi dotting but I'm too lazy.

    You're arguing with actual data... Statistically sound data
    Exactly. And that's how I know I'm correct.

    not your data
    So in other words... anecdotal data? No because that wouldn't really mean anything.

    You've gone full retard with Demo also. Having the choice to play Demo and it being viable doesn't mean that anyone should pick it over affliction.
    Why not? What if you're highly skilled in demonology but not in affliction? It's a viable spec and you're highly skilled in it so by all means, do it.
    Same with frost mages, since frost is a much easier spec to play, it doesn't really sound unrealistic that someone would play frost over fire/arcane.

    Both classes are dead last.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dead_last

    Finishing in last place in a competition or (in sports) the standings
    There is only 1 last place and out of all the viable dps specs, ret is "dead last" for single target dps.

    You found 1 class on each boss
    I found 1 class worse than shadow on juggernaut. 3 or 4 classes worse than shadow on malk. If you really want me to go through every boss I could find a lot more.

    Besides the fact that you're linking only the 2 percentiles that SPs are ahead of rets
    wat?
    All I have proven is that if shadow is played to it's full potential it will not be "dead last" on any fight this tier unless your group lacks the specs worse than shadow for that particular fight.


    Honestly.... Why are people getting so aggressive? Is everyone who comes to the priest forums supposed to have the same mindset as one another or something? All I'm saying is that shadow is not dead last and people act as if I insulted them.....
    From what I've learned about the priest forums so far is that if you try and say shadow is not the worst dps you will be flamed. Kind of funny really.
    Last edited by Orcindauh; 2014-04-19 at 02:16 PM.

  4. #104
    Parses mean nothing right now with the RPPM system. It's always cool to see people with 15 wrath procs in a 4 min fight.

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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    hmm? You realize screaming "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT" but having nothing to jibberjabberjibberjabberjibberjabber etc etc ....
    If we would go by your logic, then nearly every class in wow would be a multidotter, since almost every specc of every class has a dot and they benefit from having it rolling on multiple targets. Completely flawed logic though. There are multidotters that actually use their dots purely for their tick dmg (Feral,Lock,Shadow and some mage speccs but i guess they are kind of inbetween) and there are Proccfishers that use their dots as means to procc something (Balance Druid, like i said Mage etc etc). Multidotting will mostly be of benefit for most classes, but only a few will actually see their dots on r1,2,3 in their dps breakdown.

    Also, comparing WoL parses is literally the most stupid thing ever since no player is playing in the same environment and not every player has the ambition to aim for rank 1.

    + You know that ret's lose more dps on jugger than shadows since they usually get knocked away in siege phase.

    Some guild rotate rogue tricks to boost certain players damage for ranks every week etc etc.

    Your arguments are meant to impress with accuracy and data, but the way you present them actually displays the opposite.
    There is a big difference between having data to support something and actually knowing how to interpret it. All you do is bent it for personal profit.

    Fact is, to actually not be "dead last" as shadow you basically have to pad the living shit out of everything :P

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazu View Post
    If we would go by your logic, then nearly every class in wow would be a multidotter, since almost every specc of every class has a dot and they benefit from having it rolling on multiple targets. Completely flawed logic though. There are multidotters that actually use their dots purely for their tick dmg (Feral,Lock,Shadow and some mage speccs but i guess they are kind of inbetween) and there are Proccfishers that use their dots as means to procc something (Balance Druid, like i said Mage etc etc). Multidotting will mostly be of benefit for most classes, but only a few will actually see their dots on r1,2,3 in their dps breakdown.

    Also, comparing WoL parses is literally the most stupid thing ever since no player is playing in the same environment and not every player has the ambition to aim for rank 1.

    + You know that ret's lose more dps on jugger than shadows since they usually get knocked away in siege phase.

    Some guild rotate rogue tricks to boost certain players damage for ranks every week etc etc.

    Your arguments are meant to impress with accuracy and data, but the way you present them actually displays the opposite.
    There is a big difference between having data to support something and actually knowing how to interpret it. All you do is bent it for personal profit.

    Fact is, to actually not be "dead last" as shadow you basically have to pad the living shit out of everything :P
    le sigh.

    I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with destruction being called a multi dot spec or not. Like really, is that really what's important.

    Also, comparing WoL parses is literally the most stupid thing ever since no player is playing in the same environment and not every player has the ambition to aim for rank 1.
    >said this a million times in this thread already but I guess no one knows how to read. Well here it is again.

    rank 1 spriest is ahead of rank 1 ret pally. Rank 2 spriest is ahead of rank 2 ret pally. Rank 3 spriest is ahead of rank 3 ret pally. Rank 4 spriest is ahead of rank 4 ret pally. It's consistent data.
    When data is consistent like that it means something.

    Some guild rotate rogue tricks to boost certain players damage for ranks every week etc etc.
    I'm sure just as many shadow priest who do it, there are just as many ret pallys who do to.

    Fact is, to actually not be "dead last" as shadow you basically have to pad the living shit out of everything :P
    You can't pad on juggernaunt.....
    I cannot stress this enough, shadow is not dead last on ANY fight this tier. NOT ONE SINGLE FIGHT.


    >You people need to understand the overall purpose of multi dotting. It's doing constant damage to more than one target at once. Shadow can do this better than most classes (CLASSES I SAID IT. NOT SPECS) in the game.

    >Out of all the CLASSES in the game, the only ones who can distribute more damage to more than 1 spread out targets at a time than shadow are warlocks and mages. (targets are spread out so melee are out of the question). Shadow is not even dead last there. Can hunters or ele shaman do it as well? Nope.
    >It doesn't fucking matter if you want to label it "multi dotting class". It's something shadow can do better than other ranged dps classes. Therefor they ARE NOT DEAD LAST.
    >It's like saying priest and paladin do piss poor single target dps therefor they are not a "single target dps class".



    >So yes, when comparing shadow mutli dotting damage you CAN compare it to ele shaman AND hunters. It doesn't matter if they are shit at it. Shadow is shit at single target YET you STILL compare it to other classes single target. DO you see the logic here?
    Last edited by Orcindauh; 2014-04-19 at 02:59 PM.

  7. #107
    Your class is far from the worst, why complain?

  8. #108
    Why are we comparing Ret's and Shadow?? People say we are last single target to other range. Especially range casters.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinalcrack View Post
    Why are we comparing Ret's and Shadow?? People say we are last single target to other range. Especially range casters.
    ......no one said ranged

    >Claimed to be dead last single target dps -Proven wrong

    >Changes it to dead last ranged dps

    :/ >lost cause. As shown plenty of times in this thread, you guys clearly believe what you want to believe. Clearly there are other classes and specs who deserve buffs a bit more than shadow priest.

    Even with that said, someone's gotta be near the bottom on single target fights. You should be thankful you're not AT the bottom like ret pallys.

    >Very strong healing spec
    >Very strong multi dotting

    You can't have it all you know, take what you have and make yourself useful.

  10. #110
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Well that was fun.

    I'm far too much of a carebear sometimes, I need to trust my intuition on these things more rather than letting them play out.
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  11. #111
    Yvaelle banning anyone who disagrees with him or proves him wrong yet again. Another reason I don't post on the priest forums anymore. Surprised this guy is still moderator.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    Didn't US first 25m Heroic Klaxxi kill have like 2 or 3 shadow priest?
    Top guilds use Shadow priests to replace dedicated AoE healers.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Imhere View Post
    Yvaelle banning anyone who disagrees with him or proves him wrong yet again. Another reason I don't post on the priest forums anymore. Surprised this guy is still moderator.
    The fact this can be quoted from a priest thread kinda proves you do still post in the priest forums /mebeingajackass :P

  14. #114
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imhere View Post
    Yvaelle banning anyone who disagrees with him or proves him wrong yet again. Another reason I don't post on the priest forums anymore. Surprised this guy is still moderator.
    I have banned ~3 people from the priest forums over the course of 3 years. In your case, I gave you the smallest trolling infraction possible, but since you already had 3 outstanding (2 active) trolling infractions from General Discussion - it tipped you into a ban.

    And look, as soon as the ban ended you came right back to lurk - so, welcome back!
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2014-04-19 at 06:15 PM.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post

    >So yes, when comparing shadow mutli dotting damage you CAN compare it to ele shaman AND hunters. It doesn't matter if they are shit at it. Shadow is shit at single target YET you STILL compare it to other classes single target. DO you see the logic here?
    I do see that i should not argue with stupid people.

  16. #116
    Thanks Yvaelle, the hunter SP expert's input and facts based on bias will be sorely missed, but life goes on.. what did we use this thread for again? Oh right, buff SP plez you blizz guyse.

    Where's that beta.
    Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I have banned ~3 people from the priest forums over the course of 3 years. In your case, I gave you the smallest trolling infraction possible, but since you already had 3 outstanding (2 active) trolling infractions from General Discussion - it tipped you into a ban.

    And look, as soon as the ban ended you came right back to lurk - so, welcome back!
    That's more than in total we have at H2P

    You have much more patience than I do. I would have banned that idiot many posts ago or at least have given them a warning. I mean come on. It's pretty embarrassing how little they were capable of interpreting data and know what's going on.

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  18. #118
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    Where's that beta.
    I know right? They better give me access, I'm like - so useful and stuff!
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    HS are gone in MoP,(So is Shadow Cleave Healing) Gateway is close to useless most fights and gets nerfed too(Gateway is a Core Mechnic of 3 out of 4 "Hard" fights in the last quarter of the instance:Thok,Siegecrafter,Garrosh). Take Garrosh hc - only utility a lock have there, is to have strong dps, to burst engineers or adds in first intermission, and HS every third Whirl.(Not to forget having a gate for the way back from the first engineer to ensure nobody aggros the Wolfrider on its way to lose 50% health in the Ironstar) Meanwhile I would kill to have SPriest to have actual root (that can't break from any damage) for adds in p1(There is no point in having a shadow root the adds anywhere since they will kill the tentacles easily and if not will randomly kill every melee that comes near), Halo for EVERY Whirling corruption(For Halo to have any use you have to cast it from range and most times you dont have the possibility since desecrated weapon and whirling are likely to randomly come very close another, same with touch of yshaari) ,(+ for offhealing you would use dstar) and Feathers as best mobility tool in game for kiting Iron Star.(in the toolkit of the class least fit to kite the iron star, combined with an utterly unreliable and random pickup mechanic even if perfectly aimed)

    You can have Gateway if you want it so badly. On current tier it's rather shitty, on 10 only really GOOD use is Thok...blablabla who cares about all the freeloot bosses before the last quarter.(I'd take Mass Dispell all day every day over that though)->only unique shadow utility. So yeah, Gateway was/ IS STRONG, in ToT, for Qon, Megeara, Ji-Kun and Lei Shen. In SoO it's mostly crap on the bossfights that are easy anyway, for progress on the harder ones its almost a must have. I can guarantee if you would replace Warlock with SPriest you wouldn't notice diffrence apart from lower raid dps (much lower on single targets I'll give you that), t90 covering what healthstones could do, and give more with raid healing and mana cds and feathers.
    -> Much lower raid dps.Forcing the shadow to use t90 as offhealing tool and not for deeps ( healthstones are healing on personal demand , like a potion in d3 = way more versatile and useful)
    If you want to feel good, I'm most likely rerolling Spriest next expansion after maining lock since BC. With dev team clearly not knowing how locks work -->>> ??? WHAT ?? they have reworked locks in mop to the best scaling , most fluently running and well rounded class that has every existed in the history of wow. period. (given some straight up stupid changes) and spriest confirmed to being buffed up to pure dps you can be nearly sure it's their time to shine, with one spec having every tool needed ever (multi, burst, aoe, excecute cheese even, it's like perfect amalganation of affli and destro with procs and without shitty pet).
    TL.DR : You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

  20. #120
    Warlock can soak on Klaxxi 25. Priest can once every 2 minutes, making you lose your oh shit button in the process. Void Tendrils is useful but its a DPS loss (you knockback the adds and then root them, they won't melee). Discipline can do it just as well, and Discipline you will guaranteed have in your raid. Gateway is also good on Siegecrafter I forgot that one actually. Feathers yeah they are good on some fights but you are shit with movement yourself, and Discipline can also do it. Leap, same story, about time they introduce that glyph which makes Leap an Intervene instead. I said it probably 3 times already now: Shadow competes with Discipline on Priest utility and you already have 1-2 Discipline Priest on progress. Mass Dispel from Shadow is indeed amazing on Thok, as is the off healing from DS but you can snipe heals which would otherwise have been healed anyway, too. Halo on Garrosh? No. Use DS + Fade and try to combine the off healing with damage. Warlock and Shadow are both good on the Engineer but I think the DPS loss for Shadow is bigger due to the movement (Warlock already uses KJC).
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

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