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  1. #21
    I wouldn't be too worried about Drain Soul just yet; they know it's one of the original Warlock spells and it's just as easily they'll just rename Malefic Grasp into Drain Soul.

    The recent interview with Celestalon and the CM guy they were listing off other class iconic things, and mentioned Paladin wings as one of them; instead of just giving them all the wings ability back they could just give them wings with some other ability they had. Same thing about giving all the DK specs back Army of the Dead. The Drain Soul thing was mentioned in the interview as an example.
    Last edited by arcaneshot; 2014-04-16 at 08:40 AM.

  2. #22
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    I dont really see button bloat as an issue, but I do se a lot of "help my dps/wtf is this shit" after the free 90 boosts.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    I dont really see button bloat as an issue, but I do se a lot of "help my dps/wtf is this shit" after the free 90 boosts.
    It just isn't for Warlocks. But it seems targets had to be met, and some stuff had to go so they didn't get "But Warlocks are OP and you didn't remove any of their stuff" QQ.

    On the other hand, I would contest that Shaman, especially Resto (which laughably Celestalon doesn't think is bloated), Warriors and Paladins are a little, while Hunters and Priests could probably stand a little trimming too.

    On the subject of Priests, how come they keep Mind Spike but we lose Fel Flame? Serves -exactly- the same purpose for them as FF does us.

  4. #24
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    On the subject of Priests, how come they keep Mind Spike but we lose Fel Flame? Serves -exactly- the same purpose for them as FF does us.
    They get a "dotless" gameplay on lv 100
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    They get a "dotless" gameplay on lv 100
    Then perhaps the better answer would have been to give FF some talent support, like the old T11 set bonus, rather than to remove it. Seems to be the answer for keeping Drain Life.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    On the subject of Priests, how come they keep Mind Spike but we lose Fel Flame? Serves -exactly- the same purpose for them as FF does us.
    Mind Spike isn't castable on move, and to do stuff without dots. Since they have only one dps spec, they need to have tools to do every thing, like quick burst (totems), long burst (3 orbs insanity), aoe, multidot etc. while pures can just respec to role they need to do better. At least I remember that was their reasoning in Cata. Also in Cata, particulary DS, Shadow Priest > all 3 specs on every fight and since they even confirmed SPriest loosing utility and therefore need for hybrid tax, I'm expecting repeat of that tier for entire expack and fear about reason to bring Warlock in raid at all.

  7. #27
    With 'From Darkness Comes Light', you get procs for instant casts of it, which frees up globals for movement. It does exactly the same as Fel Flame, just less 'on demand'. Also, without snapshotting, the upfront damage of Shadow Word: Pain becomes spammable again.

  8. #28
    We're fucked. Every new tweet from Celestalon shows how clueless he is.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    We're fucked. Every new tweet from Celestalon shows how clueless he is.
    Talking about a guy who describes a passive mana return as "unnecessary complication" compared to fitting Chaos Bolts into your execute to regen mana? Yep.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    We're fucked. Every new tweet from Celestalon shows how clueless he is.
    This is exactly how I feel. The best you can hope from him is that he doesn't touch anything and reverts most of his warlock changes. I'm just going to see how much damage he does to this class before deciding if the game is still fun enough play.
    Last edited by 6kle; 2014-04-16 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #31
    Like Nargrassh said, I don't understand his conflicting attitudes towards executes. The stupid rework of Monks touch of death is fine, but Drain Soul is a no go?

    And his reasoning is worse then I thought! To cut down Aff's preformance on fights with adds? WTF?
    What kind of fight should a DoT class excell on?
    We can't cast and move anymore so melee has us on that. Take away our resource regen on dying adds to cripple us in another way?
    Oh yeah and by the way, rogues and feral? Como points are on the player rather then the enemy now. So that they can do better on fights with adds.

    After reading his tweet about Drain Soul shard regen, the Shadowburn mana regen has me more worried. I'm thinking they are removing the ember regen part as well and just haven't pointed it out. I'm afraid to even test it.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2014-04-16 at 02:32 PM.

  12. #32
    I don't think they object to the idea of executes, they put the extra damage below 20% on MG afterall. It's more the ideas that:

    - 5% is going to make a blind bit of difference once the Metagem stops working, and stats are rolled back from 40% Haste.
    - It makes up for what we in lose in on-demand generation to set ourselves up for burst.
    - That they can't just refund one shard, or tune adds in encounters appropriately as to whether they return shards or not.
    - Maintaining the exact same rotation through the execute as above 20% will still feel like a cool execute.

    They ruined the spec already by flipping the whole spec philosophy of a slow build on its head and turning it into Firelands Demonology 2.0 by rolling everything into the first 30s burst, and now they've just completely lost the plot as to where they actually want it to finish up.

    It's the same old shit of trying to fix a problem at both ends. Globally removing snapshotting will fix so many of the issues of the spec's overperformance right now, but that's just not enough, they have to be seen to be nerfing the class on top of that. And they have to be seen to be removing abilities from everyone so others don't cry foul that Warlocks didn't get anything cut :/

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post

    It's the same old shit of trying to fix a problem at both ends.
    It's like they forget why they added certain things in the first place. There is a need!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rogue
    Q: I also... I... Subtlety rogues using FoK will be DROWNING in combo points. I don't even.
    A: Yep. That'll be an interesting change to see how it plays out. We'll pull back on it if it ends up too strong, but trying it. (Celestalon)

    And then:

    Warlock
    Q: is a 5% buff to nightfall going to be enough to offset the loss of drain soul?
    A: It's intended to make gameplay more similar between cases where you have adds to kill (way too strong) and you don't. (Celestalon)


    Fucktard.

  14. #34
    I was, still am, more incredulous at the idea of weaving Chaos Bolts into Destruction's execute to regen Mana being considered less needlessly complicated than the passive regen from Shadowburn.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Curious about the Shadowburn change to not generate mana. Without a cast time there's no mana regeneration like with Chaos Bolt.
    Cast time isn't really mana regeneration. It was unnecessary complication.
    It's like he has literally no idea of how the spec actually works as a resource capped "energy" user. >.<

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's like he has literally no idea of how the spec actually works as a resource capped "energy" user. >.<
    Kinda bloodboiling isn't it? It's not nerfs/removals I'm most angry, is fact that now, they don't seem to have dev even playing Warlock, so they play whack-a-mole with changes.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They ruined the spec already by flipping the whole spec philosophy of a slow build on its head and turning it into Firelands Demonology 2.0 by rolling everything into the first 30s burst, and now they've just completely lost the plot as to where they actually want it to finish up.
    I'm not sure how an enormous ramp time was ever an ideal for any spec. Particularly when most of your damage was wrapped up in Shadow Bolt/Embrace/Haunt which meant switching targets and phase transitions just punched a hole in your dps. God forbid you were off target long enough for Embrace to fall off.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jackvii View Post
    I'm not sure how an enormous ramp time was ever an ideal for any spec. Particularly when most of your damage was wrapped up in Shadow Bolt/Embrace/Haunt which meant switching targets and phase transitions just punched a hole in your dps. God forbid you were off target long enough for Embrace to fall off.
    There's a point between slow ramp up with a heavy backload of damage, to reversing it and frontloading everything.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I don't think they object to the idea of executes
    I don't think anyone thinks they are, but Celestalon was boasting about some changes made to touch of death to turn it into a usable execute rather than being based on the bosses health v yours - but that it would still have a huge cooldown, likely 1 use per fight.

    Monks will have a dedicated execute button that they will press ONCE a fight. This is something blizzard seem proud of and are INTRODUCING in WOD.
    Warlocks are losing TWO abilities that were used regularly, fill interesting and niche roles that nothing else on the spec does, but are being cut because button bloat is apparently a problem.

    It's madness. You don't give a class a button they'll press once per fight with no real benefit to the class bar a big hit near the end - it's the very definition of what should be top of the list when removing abilities if button bloat is really an issue.


    I can only hope they tune around the mana thing when it comes to destro, but I find myself thinking that a lot of the time and being disapointed when they don't seem to bother, threat / lack of threat drops is another one of the things on that list. I mean, they said they'd balance our pets threat to compensate, but if you're going to have to go tweaking 5 different things to fix the removal of a button, is it really worth it? I've rarely even had soul shatter on a comfortable keybind, it was about as bloaty as having a mount was. It sat off to the side, out of the way for the most part.

  19. #39
    Kinda off topic but, I also noted in that conversation that Monks have their cleave spell off the GCD now.

    Maybe Havoc should be also.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I was, still am, more incredulous at the idea of weaving Chaos Bolts into Destruction's execute to regen Mana being considered less needlessly complicated than the passive regen from Shadowburn.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Curious about the Shadowburn change to not generate mana. Without a cast time there's no mana regeneration like with Chaos Bolt.
    Cast time isn't really mana regeneration. It was unnecessary complication.
    It's like he has literally no idea of how the spec actually works as a resource capped "energy" user. >.<
    I have no words for what I'm feeling right now in response to that tweet.............

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