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  1. #101
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Are these talents not all about flavor? Isn't that exactly why there is no consensus on which talent to baseline (if that should even be done)?

    And again, if DPS is not balanced around levels 55-59, why does it matter if a talent tier significantly impacts your DPS? Or rather, why does it matter if a tier "brings your DPS up to par" with other classes when that tier is readily attained before the level cap?

    Were you planning to skip that tier entirely to begin with?
    My best example of flavor that already exists withing the DK talents is Asphyxiation, it completely changes what an ability does and reduces its cool down dramatically. That is flavor, not bland band-aiding of a resource system. It just seems to me they could have incorporated those options somewhere else like rune forging and put in talents that augment baseline abilities or add interesting new cool downs.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  2. #102
    Dreadlord Kiru's Avatar
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    Blood Tap back to baseline ability. RE baseline for every spec. Glyph to turn it into RC.

    I take cash or cheques for my work, Blizzard.
    Wharglbargl

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiru View Post
    Blood Tap back to baseline ability. RE baseline for every spec. Glyph to turn it into RC.

    I take cash or cheques for my work, Blizzard.
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    I would be perfectly content with that design.

  5. #105
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    I like RC and BT but dislike BE, a lot
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    This is what a blizz blue said about charge and also they are putting pummel and disrupting shout on the same DR seriously blizzard its hard enough as a warrior to beat casters [...]
    in patch 5.4...

  6. #106
    Dreadlord Kiru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    They should, but they wont. Making them baseline and cutsomizable gets them out of our talent tree, but Blizzard don't have to admit the abilities suck. It's a win for all parties.
    Wharglbargl

  7. #107
    Started to watch the video. First thing OP says is "I made a video a couple days back called "RIP Death Knights."

    That made me stop watching the video, so I thought I'd comment to give feedback. This is either a typically sensationalist title made to click bait, or a genuine one because you actually believe Death Knights will be unplayable in WoD because of an alpha patch notes compendium that is due to change pretty much every 2 weeks between now and release. Frankly, I'm not sure which is worse.

    Dude, you sound well-spoken enough. You can do better than sensationalistic drivel imho. Sorry for the harsh feedback. :/

  8. #108
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    But what happens when you're Haste capped, or rather, when you have so much Haste you simply have infinite Runes?

    I mean I'd love to literally be pulling Runes out of thin air too but there's the whole issue of not being overpowered.

  9. #109
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    But what happens when you're Haste capped, or rather, when you have so much Haste you simply have infinite Runes?

    I mean I'd love to literally be pulling Runes out of thin air too but there's the whole issue of not being overpowered.
    Well thats just an example, they would have to set % of which the second starts regenerating lower than 50% with base haste, probably like 30%.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    That an amazing fucking idea. Woah + 100 internets to you sir!

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiru View Post
    Blood Tap back to baseline ability. RE baseline for every spec. Glyph to turn it into RC.

    I take cash or cheques for my work, Blizzard.
    Seeing as RC is probably used the least of any of the regen talents this would be foolish. Better idea, as has been stated before is making Blood Tap back twords what it used to be, and RC baseline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly, RC and RE should go out the window, there's 1 REALLY easy way to fix the regeneration, allow secondary runes to start regeneration when the first one is at 50%, and this would be affected by haste as well.
    This would have obvious scaling and balance issues. As I said above, RC baseline with Blood Tap with what it used to be (or close to it) is a popular running idea.

  12. #112
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Seeing as RE is probably used the least of any of the regen talents this would be foolish. Better idea, as has been stated before is making Blood Tap back twords what it used to be, and RC baseline.

    This would have obvious scaling and balance issues. As I said above, RC baseline with Blood Tap with what it used to be (or close to it) is a popular running idea.
    I mean whatever scales the best, but you must agree that having them as talent choices seems like a poor design choice on their part.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    you must agree that having them as talent choices seems like a poor design choice on their part.
    Not necessarily. This particular implementation is a failure because all three talents offer the same performance and the same gameplay (assuming macroed BT).

    If all three talents offered the same performance but not the same gameplay, that would be fine. But you can't do that without substantial changes to what the talents currently do. It can't be the "rune regen on runic power usage" tier any more. The triggers would need to change.

    For example, imagine if Blood Tap was made unmacroable but still offered identical performance to the completely passive Runic Corruption. Who would choose that talent? And imagine if it was made unmacroable and offered a substantial performance gain over Runic Corruption-- who would take RC? The gain would have to be tiny, so only the hardcore feel the micromanagement is worthwhile. But at that point, who the heck cares?

    If I were to fix this problem, I would make Runic Corruption baseline. Then the formerly rune regen tier would look something like this.

    Blood Tap
    Each Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike generates 2 Blood Charges, up to a maximum of 22 charges. Multistrikes generate 3 Blood Charges. Blood Tap consumes 5 Blood Charges to activate a random fully-depleted rune as a Death Rune. Replaces Runic Corruption.
    Runic Consumption
    (Frost)
    Each Frost and Death rune consumed has a [crit chance%] chance to envelop you within a frozen shield absorbing W% of your maximum health and granting X Mastery for 4 sec. Stacks 4 times.

    (Unholy)
    Each Unholy and Death rune consumed has a [crit chance%] chance to cause your next Death Coil to deal F% additional damage and heal you and your ghoul for Y% of damage dealt.

    (Blood)
    Each Blood and Death rune consumed has a [crit chance%] chance to spawn a Ghast for 10 sec. The Ghast's attacks heal you for Z% of your maximum health and contribute to your Blood Shield.
    Runic Empowerment
    Multistrikes from your Runic Power consuming abilities have a R% chance to trigger Runic Corruption.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2014-04-23 at 06:30 PM.

  14. #114
    I keep tweeting celestation I never get a response about these talents.

    Why do they continue to support this row of talents when they bring absolutely nothing to the table. They are all virtually passive and add no gameplay value.

    With the new talent design they brought into MoP, they wanted to avoid non interesting talents that you just picked and forgot about, and ones that added choice. There is absolutely no choice with the rune regen tier. You pick the one that's best for your spec and forget about it.

  15. #115
    Yep, Regen talent tier feels like not having a tier.

    And yes, I get the same vibe that the devs are adamant about keeping it "as is."

    Maybe there is something we're missing here? Maybe what they want to achieve is a row that actually lets you modify your overall gameplay based on rune regen patterns? In theory why not, but in practice, there's always a "good" answer. :/

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    Some guys on the wow forums said this and he said it better than I could in 2 sentences than I could in an entire post.
    If you macro it into another ability you aren't getting the most out of it, at least assuming you're a blood DK, can't comment on DPS.

    I dunno what the fuss is about, tier works fine IMO. Maybe RE and RC are too similar? Shrug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  17. #117
    Stood in the Fire
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    True enough, I did macro BT in FS, both pre- and post-. Don't feel any smarter, just look for any extra DeathRunes after a FS.

  18. #118
    The problem with the tier is that every option gets chosen by about the same amount of players, making it a good talent row in blizzards eyes. However for each individual player, that tier doesn't offer a choice. There's always one talent you prefer over the others (for whatever reason) and you stick to it forever (or at least until the next patch). There are only very few players that actually change their rune regen talent based on the situation.

  19. #119
    The Patient Enfilade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    I keep tweeting celestation I never get a response about these talents.

    Why do they continue to support this row of talents when they bring absolutely nothing to the table. They are all virtually passive and add no gameplay value.

    With the new talent design they brought into MoP, they wanted to avoid non interesting talents that you just picked and forgot about, and ones that added choice. There is absolutely no choice with the rune regen tier. You pick the one that's best for your spec and forget about it.
    I'm convinced that no one at Blizzard actually knows how Death Knights work, specifically Frost and Unholy. Celestalon lost all credibility when he said that row was fine, and that DW should be using Obliterate.

    i5 4670k @ 4.0 Ghz | 8GB Corsair Vengeance | nVidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti | MSI Z87-G41 MoBo | EVGA Supernova 750W | 250GB Samsung 840 EVO | Thermaltake Chasar II Full ATX Case | Liquid cooling coming soon!
    My Twitter I tweet mostly about Death Knights and making the devs mad.

  20. #120
    As if he even had any left after claiming that death knights are fine in t16 and just lack encounters to shine on.

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