At what point is 'WPvP' Harassment/Griefing?

[Orange Joe]

Yeah, I will never forget Vanilla SS - TM battles even though we were outnumbered like 3:1 at times it was great fun
I don't mind camping there, I willingly went into that battle.

And that's different from I'm questing and suddenly I can't play the game until the other guy leaves. Pfft.

It sucks, but that is the point of a pvp server. PVP can happen at any time whether you like it or not.

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And as I pointed out, one has consequences for bad behavior and one does not. That is the reason for the difference in your behavior. Your knowledge of the difference is what keeps you out of prison, nothing more.

The difference is one is fantasy, the other is real life.


If you can't see that difference you need to step away from games for awhile.

[Kufell]

This issue has come up a lot on Defias Brotherhood RP-PvP in the past on the forums, from what folks have been responded with when complaining to GMs is basically if there is a PvP solution to your problem, it's not griefing and a GM will not intervene, going so far as to cover PvP guilds going out of their way to track down and prevent RP events in contested territory, even if they openly say they'll be attacking all your future events to disrupt/prevent them.

Given that this is how the policy to RP-PvP is, I'd say with quite some certainty that on normal-PvP realms that there is no point where PvP becomes harassment.

[Sesshou]

This issue has come up a lot on Defias Brotherhood RP-PvP in the past on the forums, from what folks have been responded with when complaining to GMs is basically if there is a PvP solution to your problem, it's not griefing and a GM will not intervene, going so far as to cover PvP guilds going out of their way to track down and prevent RP events in contested territory, even if they openly say they'll be attacking all your future events to disrupt/prevent them.

Given that this is how the policy to RP-PvP is, I'd say with quite some certainty that on normal-PvP realms that there is no point where PvP becomes harassment.

As far as I know, that has constantly been their response since back in vanilla. Pvp server, pvp solution.

[Dreknar20]

And as I pointed out, one has consequences for bad behavior and one does not. That is the reason for the difference in your behavior. Your knowledge of the difference is what keeps you out of prison, nothing more.

lol
Comparing PvP to behaviour worthy enough top be put in prison...how delightful

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Nah..noone's pissed at being killed.

not being pissed at dying or losing makes you a very abnormal person

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And that's different from I'm questing and suddenly I can't play the game until the other guy leaves. Pfft.

A PvP realm is a PvP realm
Not PvP but only when you ask for it or want to or organized it

[Kufell]

As far as I know, that has constantly been their response since back in vanilla. Pvp server, pvp solution.

I wouldn't know about Vanilla when it comes to RP-PvP. From personal experience though in Wrath when I transfered, the Occasional GM would give preference to the RP rules over PvP due to wording of the rules when it came to people aiming to disrupt and grief large-scale events. This seems to of changed during Cata though as there was a prevalence of guilds formed for attacking RP events which lead to many guilds disbanding or moving realm. I can only presume it has been made clear to GMs since my example in Wrath that they are never to intervene.

[Ermelloth]

Kufell, I see you come from Defias Brotherhood-EU. Ironically, I've played there most of the time and still have some characters there. So I will tell the community in few words what's the situation there concerning WPVP.

The biggest problem of Defias, IMHO, is too much WPVP-related drama and a handful of very unpleasant personalities involved in this on both sides. Is it a RP element, or just this realm's specifics, I don't really know, but all that results in constant trolling and massive insults in Bnet Defias forums section, Alliance and Horde in-game Trade chats and even beyond game space (Youtube, Facebook and private guild websites).

Some individuals just can't behave, as it seems, and the most notorious of them won't refrain from calling their WPVP rivals names and descending from game level to personal level (such as badmouthing players' parents, family members or bash their external looks, jobs, countries they come from, etc). Just a few days ago a couple of bad-mannered teenage players posted a thread on Defias forums with a link to a picture, which displayed a part of one well-known female WPVPer's real life photo, stolen from her Facebook; they cut her head from the photo and attached it to a painted rat's torso (Rob Stark-inspired?) in order to slag and harass that girl player.

This is something I absolutely hate about Defias Brotherhood. And, sadly, it doesn't feel like it's gonna change in near future.

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On the other hand, the RP community on DB tends to exaggerate about the impact WPVP guilds and attacks make on RP procedures. Some of our RPers are whining without a solid reason and a minority is even deliberately twists the events and spreads lies out of hatred for WPVP guilds.

Just a few days ago it appeared that a group of Alliance RPers cried on forums and DB Facebook about being ganked by Horde WPVP guild when they ... attacked THRALLMAR (!!!) Lol, right? So what, Horde can't defend their own questing hub and must let "RP'ers" butcher questgivers and leveling toons instead?

If you want to RP on RP-PVP realms and be absolutely safe, there is a handful of your natural faction zones and sanctuaries for these purposes, where you cannot be attacked. However, if you come to contested territories and commit hostile actions against other faction's settlements and bases (even if only enemy NPCs are involved), that justifies a PVP solution and a PVP retaliation of any legitimate sort. Deal with it.

[Naiattavain]

I only get satisfied with dealing justice to gankers call me batman; but they don't give a whole lot of power to rogues to be the good guy to do that. so im disappointed because i would have to stack 30 more rogues to go deal batman justice to gankers when 2-5 players other than a rogue may equal what 30 rogues can do. this is sad and true. so everyone @ the graveyard is still getting ganked and death is loosing his temper.

death wants gankers not noobs this make death incredibly inpatient and fidgety.

Famous batman scene "Where are you!; Here.. Grah!"

[Grishnaar]

lol
Comparing PvP to behaviour worthy enough top be put in prison...how delightful

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not being pissed at dying or losing makes you a very abnormal person

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A PvP realm is a PvP realm
Not PvP but only when you ask for it or want to or organized it

Please don't cut a part of what I said and replay to that, cause you've taken what I said out of context. And that doesn't really help anyone.


As for the "PvP realm" part, I'm sorry if I don't consider killing lower lvl repeatedly as PvP. It's PvP only on paper, the reality is somewhat like virtual ingame bully, so to speak.

[Deleted]

I love those who say.

Group up and gank them... Uhm flying mounts anyone?, what if its a night elf druid ganking you?, bring enough players to oneshot before it can shadowmeld + flightform?

[Darkpoison324]

So you're upset because you are on a PVP server and are getting killed and camped.... kids these days i swear, heres a real easy solution log off WOW and go do something for alittle while i know that sounds hard but it can be done when you come back guess what there is a 95% chance they will be gone also stop calling it griefing your on a PVP realm and you got PK <-- i know right what a surprise your just being alittle shit about it that is all

[l33t]

I love those who say.

Group up and gank them... Uhm flying mounts anyone?, what if its a night elf druid ganking you?, bring enough players to oneshot before it can shadowmeld + flightform?

Flying mounts on TI? Cool story.

[Dreknar20]

So you're upset because you are on a PVP server and are getting killed and camped....

yup, its as retarded as complaining that the Sun is too hot

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It's PvP only on paper, the reality is somewhat like virtual ingame bully, so to speak.

lol? Bullying?
Why, cause you hurts someones itty feelings? That happen in all aspects of PvP not just this

[Dnusha]

If you play on PvP server there is no such point Op.

[Archimand]

Only children with no talent and no skill would think it like that.

You aren't really looking for a fight, you're just looking to "win", which means you're just another scrub.

miuku said it the best, if you fight low levels you arent looking to pvp, you looking to win.

alot of the players that engage in low level player killing are simply not good enough to fight ppl thier own size

[Cirayne24]

miuku said it the best, if you fight low levels you arent looking to pvp, you looking to win.

alot of the players that engage in low level player killing are simply not good enough to fight ppl thier own size

Over generalization is a terrible way to base your conclusions on.

[Louis CK]

It's really past the point of calling it PvP on a PvP server. It is CONSTANT and there is nothing you can do about it. PvP server means you're into some world PvP action. It doesn't mean you're ok with being harassed by people anytime you play. I've always played on a PvP server and have never had a problem like this until Timeless Isle. Which is why I think these actions specifically are reportable, because it is not normal gameplay. Anyone that doubts it let me know and you can come see what it's like on Timeless Isle on my server. It's to the point where they might as well remove all quests and world mobs on T.I because you spend the whole time being ganked by 3+ people.

I think the whole point on a PVP server is to have friends who would come help you when something like that happens, and that's how WPVP gets going. Someone (or a group of someones) ganks you, camps you, etc. to the point that you can't do anything, so you call in a friend or two, then they call in another friend, etc. and it turns into a big battle. At least that's how it's always worked for me, even though getting ganked the way you described hasn't happened to me in years.

And if you're having trouble finding even strangers on the Isle to help (since I doubt you're the only one experiencing that), I'm not sure what to tell you in this case.

Not that it's exactly the same as being GY camped by a couple people, but just the other day I was out on my pally farming ore and this shitty geared blood dk starts attacking me. He's blood, I'm holy, so I can't really do a whole lot in the way of killing him. But I was at work, so I played the game and ran around shocking myself every once in a while to handle the absurdly small amounts of damage he was doing, thinking he'd give up after a bit and move on.

This went on for about 15 minutes, so I started jumping off cliffs and such to get away from him, but he continued to follow, not doing anything except keeping me in combat. After about 30 minutes, I was getting bored with it, and he clearly wasn't. My guildies were offline (since it was 3am and I was at work) so I asked in general if anyone wanted to kill a shitty blood dk. Someone whispers me, so I invite them to the group.

Turns out to be a recently boosted prot warrior, so he wasn't much help... After about 10 minutes of nobody taking damage, I tell the prot warrior to keep him busy for a minute, I put a HOT on the warrior and run to get out of combat. Log to my main, come back and burst the blood dk into the dirt. Wait for him to come back, because I had every intention of camping this fucker until he quit the game... But he rezzed behind a tree, mounted and flew away before I could get to him.

I guess the point here is that, yeah, it's frustrating, but on a PVP server you gotta figure things out for yourself and ask for help. While the DK wasn't "camping" me or even killing me, keeping someone in combat so they can't do anything has pretty much the same effect.