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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Idk... I think it could be interesting if they had at least addressed this at some point. Even if it was just a convo with Thrall where he expressed his uneasyness with the situation. Even if it was something as simple as "I wish slavery didn't exist and could be done away with completely, but I recognize if I went out and dismantled the ring I know of it would just force things further underground and would likely just be a worse situation. At least this way it's somewhat monitored." (obviously I am just imagining what his reasoning would be given we aren't told)

    Something like that would be interesting. They have conveyed his uneasiness with other parts of the horde before in various ways. As it is we are just left to speculate, which I love lore speculations but this is the sort of thing which could easily be one of the defining characteristics of him. I don't think we should need to speculate on something like that.
    We shouldn't, because if everything is speculation then we're doing the writers jobs for them.

    Characters should have meaningful behaviors and traits, we should have an understanding of the general culture of the playable races and their reactions to major issues in the world.
    Twas brillig

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    1. I'm not asking for it to focus on single characters (Which they already freaking did with Cata Thrall and pretty much everyone hated that overfocus)

    2. Where Have I ever said I want more focus on single characters? All I'm asking is that when these characters do show up and speak and act they're bloody CONSISTENT. I want them to MAKE SENSE.
    Again this is less of me saying you want it as much as it is an outcome of what you're asking for to an extent. A more insular focus on lore would mean it'd be more likely that we'd see a larger focus on characters along with it.

    3. No, this is ridiculous, in your own words, if they're going to do it they might as well do it right, if they couldn't touch on the importance and implications of slavery in the orcs they shouldn't have ever brought it up.
    With the comic they at least attempted to flesh it out. That's the sort of thing I'm referring to. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing them take a crack at it with a short story, that'd be an excellent medium for such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Idk... I think it could be interesting if they had at least addressed this at some point. Even if it was just a convo with Thrall where he expressed his uneasyness with the situation. Even if it was something as simple as "I wish slavery didn't exist and could be done away with completely, but I recognize if I went out and dismantled the ring I know of it would just force things further underground and would likely just be a worse situation. At least this way it's somewhat monitored." (obviously I am just imagining what his reasoning would be given we aren't told)

    Something like that would be interesting. They have conveyed his uneasiness with other parts of the horde before in various ways. As it is we are just left to speculate, which I love lore speculations but this is the sort of thing which could easily be one of the defining characteristics of him. I don't think we should need to speculate on something like that.
    Don't get me wrong, I think this is all really interesting stuff (the sort of stuff I like to put in my own writing, even). I just don't think it fits the MMO format enough to see it through properly. That slavery stuff is a really big part of Thrall's backstory, it being shown and fleshed out in a conversation or two doesn't really tickle my fancy. I'd rather see that explored in greater detail. Hell in a remake of Durotar it could have been a major component of the questline, that'd been fine to an extent... but it does require something on that scale in order to be done properly (in my eyes at least). And even that could have its own problems if you do stuff like that too much. The story as a whole becomes too introspective and isolated. The game becomes more a documentary on politics than about exploring the world. Stuff like this is AWESOME to touch upon in short stories or books, but there's a LOT of these things in WoW and if you put them in the game and actually flesh them out well instead of just briefly showing them off in an attempt to say "hey we thought about this for a second" then it does cause problems with the general... I want to say "purpose" of the format.

  3. #83
    So you literally prefer thrall not acknowledging the slavery to him commenting on it even in passing?
    Twas brillig

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    So you literally prefer thrall not acknowledging the slavery to him commenting on it even in passing?
    I'd rather it not be done if the way it is done is something I view as half-assing and not really fully dealing with it properly, yes. Having just my own speculation is better than the feeling I get when someone addresses something in a story but then fails to actually flesh it out properly. It's just frustrating.

    The difference between us is that I don't think stories are written badly if they don't mention mention every last tiny detail that could be discussed and gleaned from our understanding of the lore, or close all the open stories and leave the world feeling... known.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mister Madgod View Post
    I'd rather it not be done if the way it is done is something I view as half-assing and not really fully dealing with it properly, yes. Having just my own speculation is better than the feeling I get when someone addresses something in a story but then fails to actually flesh it out properly. It's just frustrating.

    The difference between us is that I don't think stories are written badly if they don't mention mention every last tiny detail that could be discussed and gleaned from our understanding of the lore.
    So... having him comment it is 'half assing' but having him ignore it is okay?

    I don't think Thrall's stance on slavery is a tiny detail.
    Twas brillig

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    So... having him comment it is 'half assing' but having him ignore it is okay?

    I don't think Thrall's stance on slavery is a tiny detail.
    Ignoring something is different from not having Thrall in a position to comment on something. Thrall ignoring slavery isn't really good, but that's rather stuck within the one comic and I think isn't particularly bad with him as much as reactions towards this syndicate in general and overall means little in regards to Thrall.

    Thrall's stance on slavery is a tiny detail in comparison to the plot as a whole. Aside from the one comic, it isn't really a notable thing concerning the orcs in general and the plot in general. So yes, it's a tiny detail.

  7. #87
    Question... I didn't play any warcraft stuff before WoW (yep wowbaby here ) how was Thralls history originally revealed? Was it delved into in a book or something which was covered in the Warcraft games? I am wondering mostly because I personally didn't know about it until TBC when we did that one dungeon so I have no idea in what format it was originally brought up.

  8. #88
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Not sure, but it would be nice to see some wretched slaves among silvermoon, kind of a redemption for them I guess huehuehue.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Question... I didn't play any warcraft stuff before WoW (yep wowbaby here ) how was Thralls history originally revealed? Was it delved into in a book or something which was covered in the Warcraft games? I am wondering mostly because I personally didn't know about it until TBC when we did that one dungeon so I have no idea in what format it was originally brought up.
    I believe Lord of the Clans was his first appearance, a book adaptation of the scrapped Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans game.

  10. #90
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Question... I didn't play any warcraft stuff before WoW (yep wowbaby here ) how was Thralls history originally revealed? Was it delved into in a book or something which was covered in the Warcraft games? I am wondering mostly because I personally didn't know about it until TBC when we did that one dungeon so I have no idea in what format it was originally brought up.
    I think it was in the novel "Lord of the Clans", which was essentially an adaptation of Warcraft: Adventure's story when it was canned.

    Also, if I leave my two cents, there are a lot of problems in Warcraft's story, mostly comes from the fact that the game is restricted by it being MMO (which is why Sylvanas is still alive, because fans love her and because we need an Undead race). The Horde, especially, does a lot of contradictory things for the sake of appeasing fandom and for the reasons that they can't really do it because of restrictions of it being a relatively static game in terms of story. Their focus on one character isn't utilizing the MMO as a format for stories. MMO's should be about the PLAYER'S story, which is what it more or less was in vanilla warcraft, where faction leaders were pretty much just nods to older games. Save the personal, character focus (even if the character is written like a comic book character) for actual linear storylines, whether in novels or in other genres of games.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mister Madgod View Post
    Ignoring something is different from not having Thrall in a position to comment on something. Thrall ignoring slavery isn't really good, but that's rather stuck within the one comic and I think isn't particularly bad with him as much as reactions towards this syndicate in general and overall means little in regards to Thrall.

    Thrall's stance on slavery is a tiny detail in comparison to the plot as a whole. Aside from the one comic, it isn't really a notable thing concerning the orcs in general and the plot in general. So yes, it's a tiny detail.
    What about Gallywix and all the other times he interacts with Reghar in other books? :P


    I'd have to disagree given that him ignoring slavery was pretty major to Gallywix staying in power and if it doesn't concern the orcs in general why put a quest in durotar involving slavery?
    Twas brillig

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    What about Gallywix and all the other times he interacts with Reghar in other books? :P

    I'd have to disagree given that him ignoring slavery was pretty major to Gallywix staying in power and if it doesn't concern the orcs in general why put a quest in durotar involving slavery?
    As I've said, Thrall has a fault with being more trusting than he should. It's how Garrosh got into power when really he wasn't the best choice.

    As far as Gallywix is concerned, again I have to make the point that it wasn't Thrall that was out of character as much as just the story in general was a bit off in general. I won't disagree that I felt that ending was a bit wonky, though I think it's a symptom of how they first introduced your goblin.

    Gallywix is notably relevant in the story? He really isn't. He's one of the most minor faction leaders in the game. One of the most minor characters in the game in general, even. He's only notable in the game' story at all because he's the leader of the Kazan goblins. Furthermore, a single quest does not a pattern make. Westfall for the humans was a lot about the defias and those politics. That is a big part of their culture and history. Orcish slavery getting a pittance in their starting zone does not make it really notable. It means it's something that happens (not unexpected) but really isn't widespread (expected).

  13. #93
    I'd chime in about Gallywix but I think the goblins are a blight on the horde as a whole sooo yea

    Also... at this point isn't Thrall sort of out of things? I mean Vol'jin is the new leader of the horde and I think Thrall is going to go back to being all Shamaney and stuff.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post

    Also... at this point isn't Thrall sort of out of things? I mean Vol'jin is the new leader of the horde and I think Thrall is going to go back to being all Shamaney and stuff.
    To my knowledge Thrall will be the racial leader of the Orcs.

  15. #95
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    To my knowledge Thrall will be the racial leader of the Orcs.
    Metzen mentioned at BlizzCon that Saurfang is his favourite choice for the role.

    I feel like Thrall and Saurfang co-ruling would be the best choice for the orcs after SOO. Like a morally straight Doomhammer/Gul'dan combo.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I'd chime in about Gallywix but I think the goblins are a blight on the horde as a whole sooo yea

    Also... at this point isn't Thrall sort of out of things? I mean Vol'jin is the new leader of the horde and I think Thrall is going to go back to being all Shamaney and stuff.
    1. Heretic! *tosses you in a hobgoblin conversion vat*


    2. Metzen has implied he'll come back as warchief, so tragically I think by the end of WoD he'll be back in the big chair with poor Vol'jin booted to the curb and nothing but leader of the diet trolls again.
    Twas brillig

  17. #97
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Metzen mentioned at BlizzCon that Saurfang is his favourite choice for the role.

    I feel like Thrall and Saurfang co-ruling would be the best choice for the orcs after SOO. Like a morally straight Doomhammer/Gul'dan combo.
    Saurfang for Warchief... they should never offer the job to some troll....altho I do realise he is propably too old (if it is really possible for Saurfang) for the being Warchief

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    Thrall is one of the worst characters of all time.

    A very badly written character.
    If that's what you think then I don't think much of your opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    2. Metzen has implied he'll come back as warchief, so tragically I think by the end of WoD he'll be back in the big chair with poor Vol'jin booted to the curb and nothing but leader of the diet trolls again.
    :/ That would be lame. I mean I like Thrall and stuff but dudes had his time. He should go off and have kids and be happy for a bit.

    I'd like to start a new movement:

    BAINE FOR WARCHEIF!



    Back to what this thread was originally about... I wonder if the whole slave issue might come up in the War Crimes book. I could see that being a relevant issue which could used to leverage some growth on everyone's part. Especially with Anduin being there in the thick of things.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    :/ That would be lame. I mean I like Thrall and stuff but dudes had his time. He should go off and have kids and be happy for a bit.

    I'd like to start a new movement:

    BAINE FOR WARCHEIF!



    Back to what this thread was originally about... I wonder if the whole slave issue might come up in the War Crimes book. I could see that being a relevant issue which could used to leverage some growth on everyone's part. Especially with Anduin being there in the thick of things.
    1. The same baine who let magatha go, banished people who defended themselves in the barrens, and gave water to the quillboar who wouldn't even talk to his diplomats and then proceeded to continue attacking his people after they were given aforementioned water?

    I kinda worry Neville-ChamberBaine there would hand the Quillboar and centaur all the Horde's stuff tomake up for defending themselves in vanilla or something...



    2. We can only hope.
    Twas brillig

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