1. #1

    Interesting change for Symbiosis?

    Idk if this has been said already maybe something similar to it. What if they kept symbiosis and instead of providing new abilities maybe they gave new passive effects to abilities you already have sort of similar to perks. Like a druid tank could symbiosis with a healer and his enraged regeneration also dispels a harmful effect and the healers dispel also applies a hot. It could maybe be pure utility or something very minor along those lines.

  2. #2
    Things like this disbalance PvP and make certain class compositions OP or FOTM. Im very happy to not see it again in any form.
    Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
    Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
    Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

  3. #3
    Warchief Kuthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tullkas View Post
    Things like this disbalance PvP and make certain class compositions OP or FOTM. Im very happy to not see it again in any form.
    ^^
    Have to agree.

    It was always a drain to cast it on an ally, trying to find the best comp to use it on, and then others arguing that they need it need/want it more.
    Glad it's gone.
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  4. #4
    I guess no matter the form the ability just holds too much power in one class I would suggest an aura but then druids would be too good to not have in raids/pvp and such. QQ

  5. #5
    The Patient
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    I kinda liked it but I am not too upset it is going. I found that I would often forget to use it or it would drop without me noticing. Still it was nice to have a divine shield in pvp!

  6. #6
    Unfortunately Symbiosis was a flawed and imbalanced mechanic from the get go.

  7. #7
    It was a MASSIVE ability that sounded cool but was impossible to balance. They tried to simplify it for a time, but it was a very large amount of work and they still couldn't get the balance right. On live they were never able to get rid of all the bugs as it was. It needed to be gone.

  8. #8
    Im wondering how they tried to balance it... Class like disc priest got cyclone from it and paladin battle rez lol... Still dont understand how could they let this spell to arena play and keep it in this state for whole expansion.
    Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
    Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
    Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    Can't we all just agree that symbiosis was a bad idea? Nothing they can do will make it balance, you'll still want to queue with the person who gives you the best buff (for arenas) and for pvp, it's just another way to cheese mechanics, which I would much rather do them properly (looking at you malice). Ontop of that, even after numerous fixes and changes, it's still extremely bugged, somethings has a "missing link" which means 1 of you has the buff but the other doesn't, changing pretty much anything drops the debuff and sometimes it just randomly goes away, itself.

    The idea of buffing our survivabilty and removing symbiosis is welcomed here, SI buff for all specs is a MASSIVE buff and if you do manage to get symb back (doubt it'll happen), expect SI to go too.
    Moosie <After Hours> : Feral / Restoration

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Moosie View Post
    Can't we all just agree that symbiosis was a bad idea? Nothing they can do will make it balance, you'll still want to queue with the person who gives you the best buff (for arenas) and for pvp, it's just another way to cheese mechanics, which I would much rather do them properly (looking at you malice). Ontop of that, even after numerous fixes and changes, it's still extremely bugged, somethings has a "missing link" which means 1 of you has the buff but the other doesn't, changing pretty much anything drops the debuff and sometimes it just randomly goes away, itself.

    The idea of buffing our survivabilty and removing symbiosis is welcomed here, SI buff for all specs is a MASSIVE buff and if you do manage to get symb back (doubt it'll happen), expect SI to go too.
    I do prefer the new SI over Symbiosis, but I think Symbiosis was a really fun spell. Giving a CR to a paladin so the melee group on shamans could have a reliable ress, having ice trap for the mines on Siegecrafter, spell reflect for Norushen, and ofc the immunity spells I got when I DPS'd. I think they could have kept it in the game if they just removed the obvious choices (like bubble and dispersion from cat), and made it not work in PvP. Druids need some more utility compared to most other classes imo.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    I do prefer the new SI over Symbiosis, but I think Symbiosis was a really fun spell. Giving a CR to a paladin so the melee group on shamans could have a reliable ress, having ice trap for the mines on Siegecrafter, spell reflect for Norushen, and ofc the immunity spells I got when I DPS'd. I think they could have kept it in the game if they just removed the obvious choices (like bubble and dispersion from cat), and made it not work in PvP. Druids need some more utility compared to most other classes imo.
    As long as having an immunity doesn't guarantee raid spot next xpac on certain fights the symbi loss is pretty welcome, considering the hassle that came with it. It is a shame though, since it was a very interesting ability, probably one of the most interesting/dynamic spells.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosie View Post
    Can't we all just agree that symbiosis was a bad idea?
    Indeed. That was my first reaction when hearing about it before MoP. It just seemed like one of those ideas that are cool on paper but which will never be balanced. MoP brought a bunch of weird new abilities (Stormlash Totem, Demoralizing Banner, etc.), for some reason. I'm glad to see them go away again.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    It is a shame though, since it was a very interesting ability, probably one of the most interesting/dynamic spells.
    It was an interesting Idea. It was never an interesting ability. It was and still is very buggy on live (drops for not reason, odd range issues). It never worked smoothly and was all over the place on balance. It was either too OP, or not even worth casting in a raid. Same with PVP, you either used it to great success or you weren't viable.

    Im wondering how they tried to balance it... Class like disc priest got cyclone from it and paladin battle rez lol... Still dont understand how could they let this spell to arena play and keep it in this state for whole expansion.
    They lengthened cooldowns on several spells, both given and received. Stampeding Roar = 5 minutes, Dispersion = 3 minutes. They removed the cost of Shattering Blow and added as cast time. It didn't really matter though. However what I was talking about was in early alpha they were going to modify Symbiosis to only give and borrow defensive cooldowns. However even simplified there was crazy swings in balance and they finally chose to remove it. And thank goodness they did.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Venteus's Avatar
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    Sad to see it go, I really liked it and thought it added versatility to parties and raids.

    The official blog said their replacement for it is the tweaking of survival instincts. All specs can now use it, reduces damage by 70%, and cooldown is dropped to 2minutes.

    I appreciate the addition of such a god-mode defensive but I really preferred the creativity of Symbiosis
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  15. #15
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venteus View Post
    Sad to see it go, I really liked it and thought it added versatility to parties and raids.
    Versatile, sure, but unpredictable. Certain abilities from it were incredibly good on certain fight, which felt really bad when you were used to having them but couldn't this time because the person you usually cast it on was absent. Overall it felt very random. Playing around that is in theory interesting, but not when it's something that was a key part of your strategy, like how Spiritwalker's Grace + Tranquility trivialized heroic Jin'rokh.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Sylar Hao's Avatar
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    I'm sad to see it go. Granted it was too imbalanced, but not because of the spell itself, but because of the benefits that it gives to both the casting druid and the receipt. If they were more "neutral" spells, to make the druid and the receiver change their rotation, or basic passive effects or something in that degree, instead of major cooldowns, then it wouldn't be that imbalanced and would it a very fun and interesting spell.

    Example: with shaman.
    - Guardian receives Unleash Rockbiter Weapon, adding a nice short cd that isn't gamebreaking (I think).
    - Feral receives either Flametongue Weapon or Windfury Weapon, just extra autoattack damage.
    - Balance receives Chain Lightining, benefiting from mastery, efectively changing their AoE playstyle.
    - Resto druid receives Healing Spring Totem, just an extra healing short cd.

    - Elemental and Enhancement receive Sunfire, benefiting from their masteries, adding something more to track or something to cast on the move.
    - Resto shaman receives Rejuvenation, changing the way they heal with a different ability, and again, benefiting from mastery.

    Example: Monk
    - Guardian receives Swift Reflexes or Sparring, but instead of parry, it grants dodge and triggers from it. (Althout I still think druid should parry somehow). Or maybe Gift of the Ox.
    - Feral receives Bites of Fury (because Fits of Fury would be weird XD), Tiger Strikes, pretty obvious, or Combat Conditioning related to Shred.
    - Balance receives Crackling Jade Lightning, awesome looking spell (imo) that would work with balance mastery in Solar eclipse, somewhat replacing Wrath.
    - Resto receives Renewing Mist or Soothing Mist. HoT baby.

    - Brewmaster receives Savage Defense or Frenzied Regeneration, they would cost chi I guess.
    - Windwalker could receive Primal Fury with Chi (although that would maybe make them gain tons of chi and energy), or maybe Rake, to add some DoT to track.
    - Mistweaver receives Healing Touch, since they don't have a big direct healing.

    Just tossing ideas around.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LeyrHao View Post

    Just tossing ideas around.
    Your suggestion makes it worse. The problem is there is always a best choice for the class to put it on and this gets worse in more specific situations you feel really gimped without it. Having multiple druids that need the same class that you don't have more than 1 of was another problem. The more you think about it the more the idea is flawed and just can't be balanced or made fun. It sounds fun, but when you get in a raid it was never fun, but a hassle, and when you get in a bg or arena without the class you want it felt really shitty too. Way more downs than ups here.

  18. #18
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    As others have said, it was nigh impossible to balance. I'm sad to see it go, but not the least bit surprised. The only thing that sucks is that druids now won't have any ability they get at 87 as opposed to all other classes.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by roxfm View Post
    As others have said, it was nigh impossible to balance. I'm sad to see it go, but not the least bit surprised. The only thing that sucks is that druids now won't have any ability they get at 87 as opposed to all other classes.
    Many classes lost their 87 ability or got it turned into a talent.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Many classes lost their 87 ability or got it turned into a talent.
    Ahh didn't know that actually! A step in the right direction then!

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