Entitlement in WoW: Has Blizz helped create this toxic side of the community?

[Cadlington]

Anyone that pays for the development of content has the right to see that content. That is just fact. Blizzard spent many years trying to deny this fact. Those years were not very good for Blizzard. When they changed that denial, things got much better.

By "not very good for Blizzard", you're referring to Classic-Wrath, when we didn't have stuff like LFR and such, right? Also known as the most popular years of WoW when the subscriber base was at its' highest? Because Blizzard didn't start adding stuff for making raids more accessible to people with lives until Cataclysm... and if the current subscriber number is anything to go by, things sure as hell didn't get "much better" for Blizzard.

[fixx]

I would like to know WHERE the decision and motivation to go with MOP came from. They have said it wasn't what they had planned originally at all.

Probably the best half-expansion idea they had? Second half of MoP is a long prelude to WoD, or "a calm before the storm" as they said.

Personally I like longer storylines and would be exstatic to see the same trend continue where one expansion directly leads into the next.

[Kolo]

As WoW has developed over the years, we have seen a radical shift from less accessible content, to so widely accessible that some content is almost pointless because everyone can do it. This is arguably due in part to the shift of mindset of players wanting things that they before would not put in the effort to achieve. Time and schedules aside, (which is the most used excuse for not being able to do end game activities in the game) these players represent the new generation of players.

What do you think about the new generation of WoW players? What I am talking about is the type of player who wants instant gratification. "Call of Duty" gamers essentially. Those who expect content for their money, rather than those who expect that they need to do certain things to achieve said content.

This entitlement is essentially what drives many players away from the game. This toxic mindset that "I should be able to see and do everything any other player gets to see and do" is crippling to the community, it negatively affects group play including 5 man content and 25 man large group content, and it also spurs laziness. Laziness to the extent that these entitled players generally are ones who wont put in effort to maximize the output of their characters, help other players through thoughtful gameplay, and when called out on their foolishness, they get upset and act like children within the game itself.

The point is:

• Do you think Blizzard has helped to create this entitled generation of WoW players through the design decisions they have made over the past few years?
• What can blizzard do to reduce this toxic part of the community, and help players feel good again about grouping up with random strangers?
• Lastly what can us as players do to root out entitlement in the game?

Entitlement seems to be an issue you have. You believe you are entitled to take away from everyone else just so you feel better. So congratulations on being an entitled brat.

[Deficineiron]

By "not very good for Blizzard", you're referring to Classic-Wrath, when we didn't have stuff like LFR and such, right? Also known as the most popular years of WoW when the subscriber base was at its' highest? Because Blizzard didn't start adding stuff for making raids more accessible to people with lives until Cataclysm... and if the current subscriber number is anything to go by, things sure as hell didn't get "much better" for Blizzard.

I couldn't figure out the part where zero to 11 million subs in 4 years was 'not very good' for blizzard either. I posted a timeline earlier trying to get him to help me puzzle this out.

[fixx]

WoW caters to entitled gimmie gimmie players now,

Wrong. It caters to everybody. That's what the difficulty setting is for.

[Deficineiron]

Probably the best half-expansion idea they had? Second half of MoP is a long prelude to WoD, or "a calm before the storm" as they said.

Personally I like longer storylines and would be exstatic to see the same trend continue where one expansion directly leads into the next.

They certainly have integrated story arcs into the story, as well as into major npc's. (still waiting to see sylvanas as a raid boss).

[gamingmuscle]

A couple of random comments -

I would like to know WHERE the decision and motivation to go with MOP came from. They have said it wasn't what they had planned originally at all.

Never heard that...I had heard that pandarian were originally scheduled for BC.

the follow-up to that is that WOD is, to me, clearly aimed squarely at their FORMER players. It seems that while of course the game will be made even easier for entry for new players, the focus of the company is trying to get as many folks as possible to activate old accounts to see 'old draenor.' a cynic could even say this is a 2-step process, once on expansion release, and then on introduction of flying on draenor later.

I don't think the goal of the expansion is strictly to appeal to ex-wow players. I can't see a single feature that was in such demand by so many players outside of maybe garrisons.

Blocking flight to 6.1 and turning it into a quest chain vs lvl cap+gold is not likely to be terribly interesting to someone that currently does not play. Its a single short story driven event. But not a compelling gameplay mechanic that will continue though out the expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

What gear level would a party need to have carried (when live content) one auto-attacking dps in H Slabs? H Sh.Halls? H MGT? Baron runs?

Since I considered that stuff to be easy, probably normal dungeon blues LOL. But I'm a bad person to ask since I didn't struggle at all with farming my lower city rep for my epic mace as a fresh 70.

[fixx]

(still waiting to see sylvanas as a raid boss).

I dont think it's coming for a long time after Garrosh, would be boo much repetition if all horde bosses turn into enemies one by one. Besides Sylvanas is lot more fun and interesting as an evil mastermind than madman going for world domination.

[crakerjack]

Entitlement seems to be an issue you have. You believe you are entitled to take away from everyone else just so you feel better. So congratulations on being an entitled brat.

You're delusional. The only entitled people are the ones who complained about how they couldn't get to see the content. Blizzard created LFR for that purpose, so it's actually you and many others who are the entitled jerks asking for more. LFR shouldn't drop gear better than heroics because there's no need for it. If you want to make your character better, do flex/normal, that's what we like to call character progression. Farming LFR until the next content patch just to farm the next LFR raid is utterly stupid. If not getting better gear angers you, that means you're a little entitled jerk who thinks that just because they do the raid, means they deserve the same gear. Flex was created to accommodate casual players, which IMO should drop better than heroic gear, but less than normal, which is what it does. LFR on the other hand shouldn't drop anything, it should give you emblems and the experience of doing the raid. If that's an issue for you, that just proves you're an entitled jerk.

[Deficineiron]

Never heard that...I had heard that pandarian were originally scheduled for BC.

I dont have attribution with me, but it was stated by a big name somewhere at blizzard that mop was NOT what was slated at all, and very early work had already started on what was slated (didnt say what), then this idea came up and they changed it.

I do believe the bc issue was that pandas were considered as a playable race for bc, not that pandalanda the island was. it seems very clear from the way war3 was put together that the setting for expansion one was always to be outland.

I do think that the playable race for bc idea was dropped VERY early - no concept art has ever been shown, and I would think that now with pandas live ingame there is certainly no reason to not put it out there.

[fixx]

Since I considered that stuff to be easy, probably normal dungeon blues LOL.

All of the TBC five-man content was nerfed several times before 2.1 patch. I vaguely remember Durnholde getting nerfed seven times in first three months after TBC came out, the rest "only" 3-5 times each. While it was current content (before all nerfs) nobody would've claimed those easy in blues. Only after we were decked in more or less full T5 gear those instanced turned trivial.

[Deficineiron]

Since I considered that stuff to be easy, probably normal dungeon blues LOL. But I'm a bad person to ask since I didn't struggle at all with farming my lower city rep for my epic mace as a fresh 70.

Ok effectively 4-manning Hslabs, and particularly h mgt in dungeon blues group gear level. Ha ha ha. thank you for the joke of the day.

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All of the TBC five-man content was nerfed several times before 2.1 patch. I vaguely remember Durnholde getting nerfed seven times in first three months after TBC came out, the rest "only" 3-5 times each. While it was current content (before all nerfs) nobody would've claimed those easy in blues. Only after we were decked in more or less full T5 gear those instanced turned trivial.

he is saying 4-man them in dungeon blues, including h mgt. 5th man is a white-dmg only autoattack dps. Even 2.1(except h mgt obviously), anyone who was there knows this is laughable.

That said, it isn't uncommon to find TBC Heroes on these threads now. They ran them all in 30 minutes each, cleared lockouts daily, played them with 1 hand, monitors upside down etc. For whatever reason, these heroes didnt post their accomplishment on contemporary threads.

I do wonder if some of them only did them in later content (which some of this was possible due to huge buffs to character power), or others just did them on non-official servers.

[fixx]

That said, it isn't uncommon to find TBC Heroes on these threads now. They ran them all in 30 minutes each, cleared lockouts daily, played them with 1 hand, monitors upside down etc. For whatever reason, these heroes didnt post their accomplishment on contemporary threads.

I vaguely remember (part 2) that at some point it turned into an unofficial achievement who could clear all TBC heroics in least time, somewhere during the long break between Black Temple and Sunwell when bored raiders were doing BT speed clears. Was something like 18 hours for the first crazies to do all 15 original instances (before MGT). Not quite 30min clears :P

[Bryntrollian]

Wow has become a single player game where you never have to directly communicate with anyone else. You could level up and clear normal modes by pugging with a random group of guys that you don't even know or have never even spoke to. Although the world is still there, your interactions with it are completely optional.

[tiporispit]

This is a case of fantasy following reality. The growth of the entitlement baby in the United States has led to the entitlement baby mentality of players, and the people at Blizzard have responded to it.

[gamingmuscle]

All of the TBC five-man content was nerfed several times before 2.1 patch. I vaguely remember Durnholde getting nerfed seven times in first three months after TBC came out, the rest "only" 3-5 times each. While it was current content (before all nerfs) nobody would've claimed those easy in blues. Only after we were decked in more or less full T5 gear those instanced turned trivial.

Like I said my experience was it wasn't hard (ccing isn't hard). I ran a lot with my guild which was one of the top Alliance guilds on my server at that time.

he is saying 4-man them in dungeon blues, including h mgt. 5th man is a white-dmg only autoattack dps.

That said, it isn't uncommon to find TBC Heroes on these threads now. They ran them all in 30 minutes each, cleared lockouts daily, played them with 1 hand, monitors upside down etc. For whatever reason, these heroes didnt post their accomplishment on contemporary threads.

I've never claimed to be "hero" of any sort. My appraisal of my own ability is average. I think we were doing them in 45-60 minutes...maybe 90 I know the fastest was 12mins but that was sunwell days. The hardest part of BC heroics was getting a pug group as a boomie and not being asked to go resto/tank. Once you ran each one once or twice and figured out what to cc, where to look for the stealth dude, not to stand on mines....I don't exactly see anything hard. LOL

[Bryntrollian]

I vaguely remember (part 2) that at some point it turned into an unofficial achievement who could clear all TBC heroics in least time, somewhere during the long break between Black Temple and Sunwell when bored raiders were doing BT speed clears. Was something like 18 hours for the first crazies to do all 15 original instances (before MGT). Not quite 30min clears :P

Thats cool, these days in MoP most heroics take less than 5 minutes to clear.

[fixx]

Thats cool, these days in MoP most heroics take less than 5 minutes to clear.

I still prefer being done in 30 minutes with my daily dungeons (including LFD queue) instead of 2-3 hours which was the norm during TBC (including finding the group in /trade channel). Raids (especially flex) is the solution when you want to play for hours.

[THE Bigzoman]

Actually, that is what drives a MMO FOR you. There are many reasons to play WoW and for others it could be that it is a never ending RPG that continuously offers new content and never really ends. They are just as right about their drive as you are.



Anyone that pays for the development of content has the right to see that content. That is just fact. Blizzard spent many years trying to deny this fact. Those years were not very good for Blizzard. When they changed that denial, things got much better. I think what drives this "entitlement" is more lack of understanding and the fact that Blizzard will not come right out and explain its design decisions. Saying someone will not be able to use their flying mounts (which by this time in game most have spent over 10k gold on) in any content is problematic until you come out and explain that the new zones will be much smaller and allowing flying right away will speed the questing process up to the point where so many people will hit 100 right away and then Blizzard will have to release raid content on the first week (which is something they tend not to do because they spend the extra weeks tuning it). Explaining things to people (especially by Blizzard) would greatly help here.

Anyone that pays for compelling and engaging content have the right to receive exactly that. And standards/barriers to pass in order to go through content is what makes it compelling and engaging.

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Entitlement seems to be an issue you have. You believe you are entitled to take away from everyone else just so you feel better. So congratulations on being an entitled brat.

You feel entitled to take away compelling content for players that (while they can't devote enough resources to go mythic) still enjoy seeing somewhat of a challenge for the sake of your "accessibility"

See? I can play this game too.

[gamingmuscle]

You feel entitled to take away compelling content for players that (while they can't devote enough resources to go mythic) still enjoy seeing somewhat of a challenge for the sake of your "accessibility"

Adding an easy level of content does not take away the hard level of content. It does give you a choice...and you can choose the challenge or the cake walk =P