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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer theostrichsays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwysh View Post
    Both.

    I've seen puppies go to well balanced homes, only to be returned moths later because of aggressive tendencies. I'm sure there are properly bred Pit bulls that are great, I'm sure there are improperly bred pits that are super awesome, but again it's like playing Russian Roulette. If you are willing to gamble on it, go for it, but know that with any animal there is an inherent safety risk, more so with improperly bred pits.
    I will agree with you partially on this.

    One of the largest issues facing "pitbulls" is over breeding, and lack of quality care. It is Russin Roulette on any dog from a shelter, just so happens that many shelters are flooded with (as the cdc put it once) pitbull type/like dogs. Many people who are scum and will continue to neglect or actively harm them will likely pay 15 dolars (maybe 50 like Killeen, Tx) rather then forking over 350-500 sometimes up to 2k from a respectable breeder. Its a numbers game on over breeding and lack of quality care, and they lose on both accounts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    Thank you for mansplaining how opinions work.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by theostrichsays View Post
    Holy smokes mate lets post it again

    “..to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed.” (JAVMA, Vol 217, No. 6, September 15, 2000, p. 838).

    Guess how they gather data for dog attacks.... It is through news reports... They don't follow through to make certain.
    Divine.. other word for smokes.

    I acknowledged your point, but you're mostly referring to all dog attacks, while I made sure to focus on fatalities, which will always be reported if caused by, say, a dog.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by theostrichsays View Post
    I will agree with you partially on this.

    One of the largest issues facing "pitbulls" is over breeding, and lack of quality care. It is Russin Roulette on any dog from a shelter, just so happens that many shelters are flooded with (as the cdc put it once) pitbull type/like dogs. Many people who are scum and will continue to neglect or actively harm them will likely pay 15 dolars (maybe 50 like Killeen, Tx) rather then forking over 350-500 sometimes up to 2k from a respectable breeder. Its a numbers game on over breeding and lack of quality care, and they lose on both accounts.
    This is exactly the heart of the problem.

    Here it is $175/dog to adopt. 90% of the dogs in the shelter are abused and or neglected. Breed wise its about 95% pit/pit mix.

  4. #44
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    It's aggressive breed. Thing is ofcourse YOUR pitbull can be the sweetest dog in the world but there have been so many cases of them going ape shit I will never trust that breed. Plus if pitbull gonna attack you, you are super fucked. If corgi gonna attack you, you can laugh while shoving him away.

  5. #45
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    "There Are NO Bad Pokemon Just Bad Trainers." I'm sure that applies to dogs too :P

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    Whilst not natural born killers, the genetic make up is one of that designed specifically for fighting; And they're generally much more rougher in play-fighting than other breeds.

    But that's the limit of the "Aggressiveness" hands down it comes to the owner to properly socialize and train the dog.

    But a bad dog isn't always the result of a bad human, some dogs have lashed out for no conceivable reason; At the end of the day, they're animals.
    Uh. Actually. Here's their genetic makeup:

    Dog.

    What you meant to say is that pit bulls were bred for aggression. That's easier to breed out than to breed in, because violent tendencies toward one's own species are necessarily undesirable in pack hunters and thought to come from as-yet-undetermined recessive traits.

    The issue isn't breed aggressiveness. It's owner stupidity. Quite simply people whose dogs become violent shouldn't be allowed to own dogs. The same people who own "violent" pit bulls now owned "violent" German Shepherds in the 80s and Rottweilers in the 90s. Dogs learn as much from observing their master's behavior as they do from their master's commands. So, take a sociopathic moron who thinks violence is "cool", give them a dog, and what do you think it learns...?

    Simply put, some people shouldn't own dogs. The dogs themselves are not the issue. Michael Vick? Obviously shouldn't be allowed to own animals.
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  7. #47
    To the OP - You aren't going to change people's minds about Pit Bulls (for the better, or the worse).

    It doesn't matter what you write or link, people base their beliefs off anecdotal evidence from their own experience, and/or hastily researched data from google they use to support what they already hold as fact.

    As an example - I've never had a problem with a Pit Bull (and I take my Lab mix to the public dog park several times per week), but plenty of issues with Chow Chows. So, based on my experience, Chows are far more aggressive toward both humans and other dogs, than Pits.

    In my opinion Pits have gotten a bad reputation because they became too popular with (sorry to generalize here) the wrong class of owner. People who didn't know how or care to learn, proper rearing methods including socialization with other dogs and strangers. In fact, these owners wanted their dogs to be aggressive to heighten their own "bad ass" image.
    Before the 1980s, you never heard anything bad about Pits, it was usually German Shepherds involved in fatal attacks (look up fatality statistics if you don't believe me). Having said that, the fact remains that bad owners have resulted in large numbers of bad Pit Bulls out there, and the subsequent backlash against the breed. If Dalmatians had been the breed that became popular with the same group of owners, that's the breed people would have problems with today.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    It's aggressive breed. Thing is ofcourse YOUR pitbull can be the sweetest dog in the world but there have been so many cases of them going ape shit I will never trust that breed. Plus if pitbull gonna attack you, you are super fucked. If corgi gonna attack you, you can laugh while shoving him away.
    There is a temperament link on the previous page proving pitbulls are not an aggressive dog.

    Also: I could replace the word pitbull, in your post, with most other big dogs. In fact, pitbulls are not even the strongest dog, and do not have the strongest bite, it isnt even close.

    http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Whic..._Strongest_Jaw

    Look at that, if nasty humans decided to start buying any of those, instead of pitbulls, this discussion would be the same, with a different dog breed being called out.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Knough View Post
    I once met a man in Devon who lived for a while amongst wolves, and they played with him and could be described as "rehabilitated into loving, caring dogs."; this doesn't mean that all wolves are nice? Silly example, but it should get the point about the low numbers.

    22 dogs turned nice can't overrule 40.8% of the fatal dog bites in US in the past five years (recent sample, basic maths, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_d...Summary_tables) being from Pitbulls, and a second largers proportion of fatalities being from mixed breeds which could include part pitbull.

    Pocho was a "domesticated" crocodile in Costa Rice, while Gustave is a crocodile who has roughly 300 deaths attributed to him; 22 dogs can't redeem a species, you need much larger amounts on tested domestication *and* proof that the dogs can't be made to be aggressive; you'd have trouble training a Chihuahua to be a fighter against other Chihuahuas, Pitbulls, not so much, and there will always be some who want aggressive dogs and thus, bad reputation?

    On the topic of breeding, I think that has very little relevance compared to upbringing; take a human, evolved as we are, teach him maths, he might make a decent accountant. Take a human, while he grows up, make him do nothing but attack and be attacked, he'll be aggressive? The issue with any nasty dogs, starts with the owner.
    I think that is the biggest annoyance. Pitbull = Hound in how accurate it is describing all the dogs that fall under the umbrella.
    If you take numbers like that and divide them among their breeds it's a different and less dramatic story, and you end up not making a statement like, "40% of all dog attacks are by hounds"

    ALso that, "it looks like a pitbull so it is" bullshit needs to stop too. LOL

    As for me, I would leave a staforshire bull terrier alone with a kid, because you know, those dogs actually have a very good rep for their temperment with kids, even tho they are, "pit bulls."
    Last edited by Tastyfish; 2014-04-16 at 09:50 PM.
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  10. #50
    The Lightbringer theostrichsays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwysh View Post
    This is exactly the heart of the problem.

    Here it is $175/dog to adopt. 90% of the dogs in the shelter are abused and or neglected. Breed wise its about 95% pit/pit mix.
    100 percent anecdotal here.
    When I was at Ft. Hood, I would volunteer time at the Killeen Animal Shelter, which was filled with "pitbull/mixes." As a former breeder, I asked them why they don't spay/neuter the dogs to help with the over population in the area. Naturally money, which I offered to help with, then from what I was told is that their dogs who were spayed/neutered had a much much much lower chance of adoption and eventually ended up put down.
    While it is something that I would push to almost all dogs, due to over population of dogs period, mandatory spaying/neutering or paying a tax of some sort on the dog would definetly help the issue. This way there is less dogs period homeless, but more pitbull specific many places are quality breeders still, if people who wanted one had to actually fork over money rather then picking up anything damn near for free that resembled one, less people with any interest in caring for their dog would likely have one. Once again that goes for all dogs, but given "pitbulls" are overly represented it would help moreso in their case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    Thank you for mansplaining how opinions work.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Their reputation as dangerous dogs comes from poor ownership, but to say they weren't designed to be fighting dogs is a rather bizarre claim, as that was the entire point of them when they were first bred.
    Actually it wasn't what they were first bred for. They were used for hunting large game, then later on they used them for baiting and when that was later banned they turned to fighting them against each other, since then some breeders have bred them strictly for fighting other dogs.

  12. #52
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Actually it wasn't what they were first bred for. They were used for hunting large game, then later on they used them for baiting and when that was later banned they turned to fighting them against each other, since then some breeders have bred them strictly for fighting other dogs.
    You're mixing them up with bulldogs, the specific breed of which is now extinct, from which pit bulls were bred. Pit bulls were bred for fighting, bulldogs were bred from a large game hunter for bull and bear baiting.

    The pit in their name is a clue to their origins, pit being the ring they fought in. Dog fighting, in various forms, was a huge sport in England.

  13. #53
    I feel like we've seen the pitbull apologist thread before.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
    Pitbulls were not bred for fighting. The quality bred into them...
    How good is this snippet?

    I swear, the denialism with regard to pitbulls is just about on par with anti-vaxxers and creationists.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You're mixing them up with bulldogs, the specific breed of which is now extinct, from which pit bulls were bred. Pit bulls were bred for fighting, bulldogs were bred from a large game hunter for bull and bear baiting.

    The pit in their name is a clue to their origins, pit being the ring they fought in. Dog fighting, in various forms, was a huge sport in England.
    The pit in their name came after they were fighting dogs. Can't be a pit bull before they were fighting in the pit. They were bulldogs bred into terriers for fighting. They used the bulldog of the time not to be confused with todays bulldog which were game dogs used for hunting boars large game etc, those dogs were then also being used for baiting but when that was outlawed they turned to fighting other dogs and the bulldogs were to big so they bred them into terriers of the day.

  16. #56
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    So what you're saying is that the high amount of recorded pitbull attacks and human deaths by pitbulls is fictional?

    Are you really that dense to where you think that because a few pitbulls are rehabilitated that they aren't incredibly dangerous animals?

    How about all of the tamed lions, tigers, elephants, apes, etc... Just because there aren't a lot of people dying from them doesn't mean they aren't viscous and wild animals. If 1 person dies because you are too selfish to get a different dog, you are a true piece if shit.
    These aren't the spoilers you're looking for.

    Move along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
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  17. #57
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    The pit in their name came after they were fighting dogs. Can't be a pit bull before they were fighting in the pit. They were bulldogs bred into terriers for fighting. They used the bulldog of the time not to be confused with todays bulldog which were game dogs used for hunting boars large game etc, those dogs were then also being used for baiting but when that was outlawed they turned to fighting other dogs and the bulldogs were to big so they bred them into terriers of the day.
    Bulldogs were the big game hunters, also used for bull and bear baiting. They are now extinct as a breed.

    The wording you got that from has fudged it, which is why you're confused; they infer that Pit bulls didn't have the Pit prefix as they weren't originally fighting dogs, but they are actually saying that Bulldogs never had the Pit prefix, but they are two different breeds, i.e. a Bulldog that fought in a pit was still called a Bulldog, not a Pit bull.

    "The pit in their name came after Bulldogs were bred with Terriers to create fighting dogs." is a better wording.


    To confuse matters, there are existing Bulldog breeds, but they are different breeds from the one that Pit bulls were bred from...best to ignore them altogether.

  18. #58
    Mechagnome Laraven's Avatar
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    All the dog breeds we see today were bred for certain traits and not others. Making all breeds slightly different in appearance, drive (training/pleasing ability) and health. But, dogs are still the same species, and a Great Dane and a Chihuahua will share the same basic instinctive/natural traits. Like social structure or "pack order", and survival instincts like fight or flight. Then you have to factor in that all dogs have individual personalities just like humans. Some are born dominant, and some submissive.

    Trouble comes when the stars line up just right and a dog with bad traits (Dominant, high dive, bored or submissive, fearful and not socialized) is born to a owner who is irresponsible and unaware.

    Bull dogs were bred to work for us. We wanted a high energy, strong food/ toy drive and willingness to please their master. This breeding produced extremely smart/trainable animals with a increased prey drive. These working type dogs make them apt to get into trouble when they become bored. They must have an outlet for this energy. They were also bred for structure. Short wide jaws for holding the prey. They were perfectly bred for their jobs at that time. Now we have "pit bulls" which are a mix of several pure breeds. The bull dog, the terrier and a few other strong, high drive breeds. "Pit bulls" are still not considered a true breed by the American Kennel Club.

    But all dogs can go bad if not trained properly. Other breeds just do less damage when they attack and there for are not news worthy. (and mostly go unreported.) Pit bulls do not have the highest "bite rate" of dogs on humans. But when a bull dog attacks it can cause massive damage and the media is always there to blow this up. As a owner/breeder of the Doberman Pinscher, I know how much work these type of dogs take. They are not for the inexperienced handler. And unfortunately, these "ego dogs" tend to fall into the wrong hands.

  19. #59
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Pitbulls are bred and trained for fighting because of their jaw strength is higher than that of any other dog. It has nothing to do with loyalty or any other behavioral trait, not even aggressiveness.

    Rescue pitbulls from dog fighting rings are far more likely to turn aggressive on their owners/strangers, and even non rescue pitbulls are more dangerous should they not be trained properly because of their powerful jaws.
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  20. #60
    Fun fact, dogs bred to fight were also bred to interact with people well while also being easy to train and control. For obvious reasons. There's nothing wrong with any dog breed as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Rehabilitated or not, I would never put any type of dog that's been abused next to my toddler like that. Those people are fucking nuts.
    I'm assuming these dogs were professional rehabilitated? Because if that's the case they're probably safer than your average dog. Dogs are malleable as all fuck.

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