[Ret] Heroic SoO: Mastery or Haste

[JaimeKingslayer]

Recently I have been switching between gemming mostly mastery (17k haste) or mostly haste and trying to determine which one I prefer in a generalized sense. Now I know Mastery pulls ahead with AoE fights while haste for single target, but I really want to go beyond the numbers and stat weights. Why do some heroic ret raiders prefer one or the other when mastery builds seem more practical? What kind of difference do you guys see when going through your rotation when switching between the two? How do certain boss fights really interact with the stat choices?

Also on a side note: Why does it seem that I get more tier 16 4pc procs when gemming mostly haste?

Here is also my armory if it is relevant:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%AEme/advanced

[anaxie]

Agility and dodge

[Zabannith]

Don't worry an keep doing what you're doing , you won't see noticeable gains either way, its just a play style preference

[Soloz]

Also on a side note: Why does it seem that I get more tier 16 4pc procs when gemming mostly haste?

You just answered your own question

[JaimeKingslayer]

You just answered your own question

Sorry I should have clarified more. It always confuses me when I get procs without doing any consumer (even the procs themselves). So why do I get more of these "random" procs when I have more haste?

[cencene]

Once you hit 17k haste (40%) Start going for mastery only. Think of it this way, Every % of mastery, is a % of overall max dmg increase. At 40% Haste, your GCD is quite low, and your CDs are fairly well reduced. Mastery stacking is amazing in, not only AoE, but also Single target, as, like I said, it's a flast % dmg increase since it makes all of your core abilities do a % more dmg.

[JaimeKingslayer]

I was more hoping this thread would turn into a discussion about the play style of each build. Going haste or mastery after 17k can be a very arguable subject.

[Smitus]

Sorry I should have clarified more. It always confuses me when I get procs without doing any consumer (even the procs themselves). So why do I get more of these "random" procs when I have more haste?

I have literally never seen 4pc proc without using a finisher ever in the probably 100hrs+ of combat with raid bosses this tier

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I was more hoping this thread would turn into a discussion about the play style of each build. Going haste or mastery after 17k can be a very arguable subject.

I prefer going with a more mastery heavy built as my internet isn't always the most reliable and I've found the more haste you have the more susceptible to dps loses you are via tiny spikes in latency. (ps fuck my uni's internet)

[cencene]

I have literally never seen 4pc proc without using a finisher ever in the probably 100hrs+ of combat with raid bosses this tier

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That would be because it CANNOT proc off of not using a finisher. Unless you don't consider Inquisition a finisher. It can proc off that, but the chance seems to be VERY low.

[JaimeKingslayer]

[QUOTE=Smitus;26511315]I have literally never seen 4pc proc without using a finisher ever in the probably 100hrs+ of combat with raid bosses this tier

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Maybe my roommates are sneaking something in my drink when I play my pally. I'm also thinking it might be my lag.

[Smitus]

That would be because it CANNOT proc off of not using a finisher. Unless you don't consider Inquisition a finisher. It can proc off that, but the chance seems to be VERY low.

I was responding to someone who said they had it proc off non finishers. So you're just agreeing with me.
But inq has an identical chance (both 25%) to TV and DS to proc the 4pc. So the chance is actually the same

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[QUOTE=JaimeKingslayer;26511402]

I have literally never seen 4pc proc without using a finisher ever in the probably 100hrs+ of combat with raid bosses this tier

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Maybe my roommates are sneaking something in my drink when I play my pally. I'm also thinking it might be my lag.

It's probably just lag. There is a natural really short delay it takes for procs to appear sometimes. (and at such a high haste rotation this slight delay can be annoying and mess you up)

[JaimeKingslayer]

Once you hit 17k haste (40%) Start going for mastery only. Think of it this way, Every % of mastery, is a % of overall max dmg increase. At 40% Haste, your GCD is quite low, and your CDs are fairly well reduced. Mastery stacking is amazing in, not only AoE, but also Single target, as, like I said, it's a flast % dmg increase since it makes all of your core abilities do a % more dmg.

Yeah, but one could also make the argument that is stated in elitestjerks guide: "There does not appear to be a soft cap on Haste. If we were to somehow push Haste to extreme levels (such as over 50%), you continue to gain benefit. By continually reducing the CD of abilities affected by SoB, you are able to 'replace' lower damage attacks with higher damage attacks. This continues to net an increasing benefit, especially as autoattack speed continues to increase AoW procs."

So to a certain point of view, mastery only pulls ahead on heroic fights where there is constant AoE. Fights such as Malk, Thok and Siegecrafter it seems like pushin haste would be better. It's ultimately these fights that seem more challenging and thus make haste better for these kinds of progression.

[cencene]

Yeah, but one could also make the argument that is stated in elitestjerks guide: "There does not appear to be a soft cap on Haste. If we were to somehow push Haste to extreme levels (such as over 50%), you continue to gain benefit. By continually reducing the CD of abilities affected by SoB, you are able to 'replace' lower damage attacks with higher damage attacks. This continues to net an increasing benefit, especially as autoattack speed continues to increase AoW procs."

Now, I'd agree with this, but the Mastery Scaling out scales Haste past 40% by quite a bit. Or rather, it benefits you more than haste past 40%. You can not reach anything higher than maybe 55% haste w/o buffs. Which would be a waste of what could instead be around 25%+ Mastery. You cannot get enough haste to make it viable to not use your lower dmg abilities.

[Smitus]

Yeah, but one could also make the argument that is stated in elitestjerks guide: "There does not appear to be a soft cap on Haste. If we were to somehow push Haste to extreme levels (such as over 50%), you continue to gain benefit. By continually reducing the CD of abilities affected by SoB, you are able to 'replace' lower damage attacks with higher damage attacks. This continues to net an increasing benefit, especially as autoattack speed continues to increase AoW procs."

So to a certain point of view, mastery only pulls ahead on heroic fights where there is constant AoE. Fights such as Malk, Thok and Siegecrafter it seems like pushin haste would be better. It's ultimately these fights that seem more challenging and thus make haste better for these kinds of progression.

Siegecrafter is actually one of the most AoE intensive fights (mines!!), thok has bat phase (which while a small% of the fight is really important still), and malk has constant adds to be cleaved down. There is soO (haha) much cleave in current tier that mastery is better for the instance as a whole. IJ and paragons (maybe shamans but ehh) are the only fights I feel I would prioritize a single target dps gain over a cleave gain (at least if your main priority is getting huge numbers)