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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Bosch View Post
    Disagree, not only does shockwave provide an cone stun wich is nice for tanks it also adds an additional short timer aoe damage move wich does reasoneble damage.

    Droar is on a 1 minute cooldown and can be used rarely in fights that are add based and is just way less fluid compared to shcokwave wich if used properly can be used every 20 seconds.

    Besides i dont change much on fights that have no adds and thus i wil NEVER ever use dragon roar as a filler when its up id rather keep doing devastate as my filler to get a chance on a shield slam proc for extra rage in order to use it for my am.
    Droar is lined up with blood bath and that is where you get the most bang for you buck. Most fights in SOO are single target or the stun is not needed as such the AOE dmg you can do from the guaranteed crit on D.roar is amazing. More dmg from tank = boss dies faster = you move on faster etc! I don't see why you would never change talents they are there to be changed out!

    Shockwave is amazing for 5 mans / CM but it has not been needed in SOO at all and d.roar provides great dmg and I cannot see how you can rationalize not taking it via fishing for a SS proc from dev.

    "Droar is on a 1 minute cooldown and can be used rarely in fights that are add based " as for this... you don't keep it in your pocket you use it on CD if adds are in in say 10-15 seconds and droar is up ok I get holding off but your not just going to sit on d.roar as the single target dmg is great as well ...shockwaves dmg on the other hand is pitiful and if you don't hit 3 adds the CD is almost as long as D.roar. Basically what your saying is you tend to not use one of your talent slots during raids.... how is that good?

  2. #22
    Arms is viable for CM's yes, just use the proper talents for the occasion. Whether gear matters or not depends on how good you are.

  3. #23
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    Droar is lined up with blood bath and that is where you get the most bang for you buck. Most fights in SOO are single target or the stun is not needed as such the AOE dmg you can do from the guaranteed crit on D.roar is amazing. More dmg from tank = boss dies faster = you move on faster etc! I don't see why you would never change talents they are there to be changed out!

    Shockwave is amazing for 5 mans / CM but it has not been needed in SOO at all and d.roar provides great dmg and I cannot see how you can rationalize not taking it via fishing for a SS proc from dev.

    "Droar is on a 1 minute cooldown and can be used rarely in fights that are add based " as for this... you don't keep it in your pocket you use it on CD if adds are in in say 10-15 seconds and droar is up ok I get holding off but your not just going to sit on d.roar as the single target dmg is great as well ...shockwaves dmg on the other hand is pitiful and if you don't hit 3 adds the CD is almost as long as D.roar. Basically what your saying is you tend to not use one of your talent slots during raids.... how is that good?
    If you wanna nuke adds take BS. DR devides up on the number of targets it hits. It´s great for single target fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lince View Post
    Arms is viable for CM's yes, just use the proper talents for the occasion. Whether gear matters or not depends on how good you are.
    You mean arms is faceroll in CMS no matter your gear and doesnt need much skill to succeed right?

  5. #25
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    You mean arms is faceroll in CMS no matter your gear and doesnt need much skill to succeed right?
    As if Fury would be skilldependant in CMs. Why pick the inferior specc due to massive lack of crit if you can pick the better specc which happens to also be the easier one?
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  6. #26
    Most groups will bring you for your strong aoe as those are usually the more difficult pulls, but Miloscub pretty much covered that already.

    Adding to that you might want to plan your major CDs out differently than you would in a heroic dungeon/raid. By that i mean you don't have to reck/banner only on bosses, sometimes you are more useful or can get more recks throughout the cm by popping it on the difficult or early trashpacks. You should plan that out with your group cause if all five members cooldown the first pack most of your cds will go to waste.

    It is also helpful to know what packs are high damage/particularly dangerous for melee and you should use your cds liberally there.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    As if Fury would be skilldependant in CMs. Why pick the inferior specc due to massive lack of crit if you can pick the better specc which happens to also be the easier one?
    What are you talking about...for cms arms>>>>>fury easily.... what did i say....

  8. #28
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    Can't really give advice on Arms specific but it should be fine. The main interest in Lock/Ele Shaman/Mage is their Damage and Heroism. On my first Gold Clears we were running Prot Paladin, Assass Rogue, Destro Lock, Destro Lock and MW Monk/Resto Druid. A nice comp is awesome, but you don't need a perfect comp or heroism to get Golds, even if it is useful.
    Alliance - Shadowsong

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  9. #29
    High Overlord toomes211's Avatar
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    I ran a few of these as arms, but honestly I ended up tanking 8/9, and then going on to tank 'carries' for seven more guildies after. As a DPS warrior, I almost never needed to take shockwave for the stun. A lot of group comps have several stuns, and you don't want Shockwave's to go to waste via DR if they have strong aoe CC. If you do take it, due to a lack of CC, you're gonna want to wait after any 5 second stuns, (leg sweep, remorseless winter, binding shot,) before using so that you get the most of it before it DR's.

    That said, I just ran bloodbath/BS when i DPS'd. It'll take a few runs to get down the timing of when to use it - you want to make sure both are up on all large trash packs, and each CM is different. Vigilance is amazing with the amount of burst damage the tank is taking, make sure to coordinate with him so that's up if he needs an external - the prime places are the large pulls in SM/SH, and the third boss in Niazuo.

    As for optimizing gear, make sure you have a helm without the legendary meta gem. The alchemy trinket will be Best In Slot, along with Xuen's STR darkmoon faire card. If don't have access to either, the Brutal Talisman of Shado-Pan is very good, with the trinket from heroic SSB off Yan-Zhu - Carbonic Carbuncle. Make sure you have hit/exp on the rest of your gear to their respective caps, and then go for as many sockets as you can with emphasis on crit, just like normal gear.

    They're not hard if you have a good group. Honestly, the trickiest part will be figuring out when to burn CD's, and when you need to save them. Remember, some trash pulls are better than bosses to pop major CD's, (Reck, SB) but it will depend on group comp.

    Good luck!

  10. #30
    Blademaster Manigon's Avatar
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    Arms is as any spec viable to kill cms mode gold... I would though play my prot spec any day instead. Just becuase its easyer, as arms you will often have time off adds cause you need to get out of aoe, and stuff like that. If you choose it as arms, just make sure you are aware of your health, and use a def cd when you reckstorm on riski pulls like the first pull in Mogu shan palace

  11. #31
    Hey.

    Just wanted to pipe in on the subject since challenge modes are kind of my business. I've been selling 9/9 gold challenge mode carries for close to a year now and have over 1,000 challenge dungeons completed at gold rating, so I just wanted to add a bit here n there.

    Survival Hunters, Frost Mages, and Ele shaman are always preferred because they are very good at various things.

    An ele shaman for example does respectable single target and aoe damage, but also provides bloodlust for your group, numerous buffs, and has a couple of cooldowns they can use without hurting their DPS that also contributes a massive amount of healing to your group when needed. All in all, they are about the best team mate you could possibly hope for.

    That said however, you don't really "need" any of those classes. I don't really like melee in most dungeons because they are a liability and take more healing to keep alive and they will also end up doing less damage than a ranged class on many bosses just because some boss mechanics prevent melee from attacking during them. But you can get through all of them with a melee. Hell, you could have an all melee group if you really wanted and still succeed, though I don't recommend ever having more than one. More melee = more problems. If you are the ONLY melee in your group though, it's not that big of a deal. Just don't die and maximize your damage output and you're fine.

    Getting gold times is not that hard honestly, and it's about 80% on the tank and healer to pull properly, use CD's properly, and so on. The DPS requirement for gold isn't terribly high on most dungeons, as long as people at least try to do decent dps, you can get it. It just comes down to pulling enough and having your tank survive, which again comes down to tank + healer responsibility primarily.

    Some classes I absolutely despise carrying are Moonkins and Shadow Priests. Arms warriors however, I tend to enjoy. Bladestorm is very powerful and if you know when to use it to be both safe and effective, it can shave a lot of time off your run because AOE damage is more important generally than single target damage.

    As far as gear goes, more gems the better. SoO tends to have most of the best gear as gear from SoO tends to be better itemized by default, pre-reforging, and has lots of sockets to plug gems into. Heirloom weapons from Garrosh are great because they all have two sockets. Failing that, a TOT weapon with a socket in it is great because you can get an additional socket from eye of the black prince. TOT trinkets tend to do better than SOO trinkets. You also want an old helm with an old meta gem inside it since the legendary one is worthless. Avoid timeless isle pieces like the plague.

    However, optimal gearing really isn't needed just for golds either. My carry group is geared to the teeth, best of the best, but we have had to do clears on alts and even fresh 90s we leveled on the other faction and still got 9/9 gold pretty easily even with complete shit gear. It helps somewhat, but unless you're trying to squeek out precious seconds for server first timed runs, you don't really have to itemize perfectly.

    As far as finding a group for challenge modes, it's no different than finding a group for SoO. You usually get assholes that want you to have 9/9 gold experience, perfect itemization, and only specific classes. They want it to be as easy as hell for them and don't like to compromise or bring anything else than what they have in their head as an ideal group. So it is pretty difficult to find a group worth a spit that doesn't have ludicrous standards. But that is typical with anything. It's no different than the bumblefucks wanting 560+ ilevel for a regular mode siege clear.

    Only thing i'd advise with groups is avoid groups with shadow priests and moonkins. Brewmasters make the best tanks because they can put out insane amounts of damage, but they have to be played EXTREMELY fucking well or they'll get flattened. Blood DKs are safer picks for group tanks as they are much more resilient than the others and can take much more punishment without going down. All tanks need to play well in CMs to get the gold, but I cannot express how horrible brewmaster tanks are unless they are exceptional. it is like a light switch. Good Brewmaster is amazing, mediocre brewmaster will take damage like a fucking clothy.

    It's not that hard really if you know what to do. Just stay alive, maximize your DPS especially AOE with intelligent blade storm use (that doesnt get you killed) and you should be a valuable part of any team.
    Last edited by Dasani; 2014-05-07 at 04:59 AM.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  12. #32
    I recently did 9/9 gold on my warrior with a group of friends and it went just fine with the exception of brewery which I just found particularly melee unfriendly.
    I did Scholo and Temple as fury an the rest arms and as anyone will tell you arms does much better at that gear level. As for gear I used my existing Siege gear with the only exception of swapping Thok's Tail Tip for Skeer's trinket.
    Spec was Vigilance/Bloodbath/Bladestorm and comp was frost mage,resto shammy,hunter (forgot spec) and blood dk.
    I think your main concern would be finding a group that would be willing to take on a melee or doing it with guild/friends.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Brewmasters make the best tanks because they can put out insane amounts of damage, but they have to be played EXTREMELY fucking well or they'll get flattened. Blood DKs are safer picks for group tanks as they are much more resilient than the others and can take much more punishment without going down. All tanks need to play well in CMs to get the gold, but I cannot express how horrible brewmaster tanks are unless they are exceptional. it is like a light switch. Good Brewmaster is amazing, mediocre brewmaster will take damage like a fucking clothy.
    I never realized how far ahead of other tanks Brewmaster monks were in CMs till I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glGmkCd9s18

  14. #34
    I've pushed every class through 9/9 with a lot of different comps. I started reading this thread and was going to make a big post but Dasani covered just about everything important. I also try not to have more than 1 melee, but I've done it with 3. I had a resto shaman who's done a lot of these with me and she preferred it since she could actually use healing rain and CH effectively. Really there are only a handful of places where melee are a significant liability:

    1st pull in TJS
    3rd boss in Shado Pan Monastery (still relatively easy as long as people avoid getting spiked)
    2nd boss in GSS
    1st pull in MSP (probably the worst part for melee)

    I may be forgetting some and there are a few others where melee are a little slower, but all of these rough spots can be covered if people know what they are doing. It just takes a bit longer, especially if the whole group is new to it. I'd recommend building a group with your friends rather than going to OR. If nothing else it'll be a bit more fun and people will be less frustrated when you get stuck on a pull. For gear, pvp stuff can be useful, but I'd avoid it on your helm and weapon at least. In the helm, most pvp socket bonuses are pvp power while pve socket bonuses are 180 of your primary stat, not scaled down. In weapons, iirc pvp power is at least partially taken from the ilevel budget. Like warriorsarri said, the wowhead CM comparison option is really helpful for planning your gear. gl

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