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  1. #1

    Mistweaver at a complete loss...

    i do not get it. Ive read all the guides. i have no mana issues. crit is my stat of choice for mana regen through put.

    yet in a live raid environment (10 mans) i do less 25% less healing than the druid and pally. yes they do out gear me. but only by less than 10 points.

    they can kick out 130-200k+ hps (druid & pally).. and mine seems to be locked between 80-130k hps. leaving me extremely behind in overall healing.

    as a holy priest healer from day one of the games launch in 2004 ive never felt so useless as i do on the monk. decided to give the monk MW a go this expansion as it sounded good in the previews. Ive stuck with it the entire expansion. yet now that we are getting near end game i cant seem to keep up in healing with the other two healers.

    are monk mw really this weak? or am i just playing it wrong

    Renewing Mist on cool down. thunder tea to spread it raid wide (10 man)
    uplift on cool down (which leads to a ton of over healing)
    Rushing Jade Wind in stacked situations or Xeon in others.
    Revival for an oh shit the raid is at 10% O.o.
    bubble the tank or hurt dps in oh shit situation to give them a second to get away/healed.
    chi wave on cool down
    dampen harm on cool down
    soothing mist where needed if the rest is on cool down.
    zen meditation where applicable

    i dont have perfect play i do miss the occasional cool down while moving and being the 3rd healer (which means i jump in as dps on 2 heal fights) im caught between learning new fights from 2 rolls (dps and heals). this week on paragons and siege .. i think i spent more time dead than healing O.o

    logs are up.. in the end i just may be a bad monk so going back to priest at the start of WOD may be the best thing for me. feel free to give advice cause i cant figure it out.

    on a side note. my guild fell apart when heart of fear was the progression content..so i missed all of ToT (except as LFR) and terrace of endless springs (except as lfr) in a new guild now and trying to improve.

    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Garona/phaelin/

  2. #2
    You are 3 healing in 10 man.

  3. #3
    we are not 3 healing every fight just some stuff we are doing progression on till we figure out all the mechanics. we have progressed well.. seigecrafter gave us a ton of issues but i think we downed paragons in 6 tries. on garrosh now and phase 2 (our first night) seems to be slaughtering us with back to back to back damage. enrage timers are not an issue so far even when we 3 heal the few fights we do.

    im asking because my healing seems to be awful and i need advice to look where to fix it.. yes ive done fights where i use uplift and renewing mist on cooldown .. all it leads to is people that are not hurt being healed.. nothing is more frustrating than having renewing mist on 7 people at one point.. and poof the 3 that dont have it are the ones getting hurt. (to much randomness with monk healing in my opinion)
    Last edited by McTurbo; 2014-04-17 at 02:34 PM.

  4. #4
    10 ilvls really can make a big difference. You are also playing in a 10man with 3 healers which automatically limits how much healing you can do outside of fights like Thok.

    The druid will be blanketing the raid with hots for light damage which will compete with yours to get that heal in, seeing as he has effloresence as well as raid wide rejuvs he's twice as likely to land a heal before your renewing mist ticks.

    The paladin will also be blanketing the raid in pretty potent absorbs if he is stacking mastery, which again really reduces what you can possibly heal unless the raid is taking enough damage to drop much below 100% for more than 1-2 GCDs.

    Bubble should be used pre-emptively as well though, otherwise you are only gaining the +healing component of the spell rather then the huge ass absorb which will bolster your numbers, while stopping the tank damage spiking hard.

    Again revival should be planned, you should know when a big chunk of damage is incoming, be ready for it and use it ASAP. This will also stop the other 2 sniping in heals and making your revival overheal.

    Just seems like you got the short end of the stick with that comp and being behind in gear. Would need logs to go through in more detail though.

    2 heal Garrosh as well, the extra DPS will just make it easier in general if you organise your CDs to be able to deal with just 2 heals.

  5. #5
    thanks Noima. thats what the other two healers are telling me.. i just want to do my part and when i see them at 170+ heals and im at 90k heals.. and ive never stopped healing the entire time.. it leaves me scratching my head on what im doing wrong.

    the logs are linked on the wow-heroes (thats why i used that instead of the armory)

  6. #6
    If you know the damage patterns and use chi brew -> uplift when ReM spread is capped with tft in addition to your list then you are pretty much doing everything fine. Paladins and druids will just snipe more heals and you end up looking weak on the meters.

  7. #7
    well post those logs where you have those large differences please.
    it can be the fact that you 3 heal and others snipe/meterwhore etc, but there is nearly always something to find that isn't quite right

  8. #8
    Deleted
    get thok heal trink and nazgrim heal trink, go int + crit in yellow and make sure you dump at least 2 chi into a BOK and 1 into a TP to get zeal up every 20 secs. Don't uplift all the time, if you need to burn chi use enveloping/tiger palm/bok if +2 targets. Save the Tiger palm surging buff for when you really need it. Learn when the damage comes and how to quickly get your burst healing out. don't use 3 healers on any fight in 10man its a massive waste

    - - - Updated - - -

    also learn which fights benefit having the enduring healing glyph and renewing mist and remove/add as required the difference especially with 2piece tier is about 5% of my healing on certain fights
    Last edited by mmoc0219df0da9; 2014-04-17 at 08:41 PM. Reason: clarification

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pathetic View Post
    get thok heal trink and nazgrim heal trink, go int + crit in yellow and make sure you dump at least 2 chi into a BOK and 1 into a TP to get zeal up every 20 secs. Don't uplift all the time, if you need to burn chi use enveloping/tiger palm/bok if +2 targets. Save the Tiger palm surging buff for when you really need it. Learn when the damage comes and how to quickly get your burst healing out. don't use 3 healers on any fight in 10man its a massive waste
    Thok trinket is far superior compared to nazgrim, so get the thok one.
    I don't agree with your logic of spending chi, you should use uplift when theres raid damage, sure, but wasting unnecessary globals on tigers palm/bok on a pure healing fight ex: Malkorok is a huge waste. 3 Healers is ok on protectors, Jug , Thok and Paragons. The whole instance can be done with 2 whoever.
    Last edited by mmoca735b0894d; 2014-04-17 at 08:58 PM.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    I use both trinkets cleave + multistrike, I often just burn chi on TP/BOK its free smart heals. otherwise mistweaver is just waiting 8secs to put renewing up and uplift on bursts of dmg. Use Jab>uplift when you can spare the mana or need big heals/meta procs. Otherwise just burn that chi so you can blow more mana when its needed.

    Malkorok is a strange fight because smart heals are mostly useless, I mostly revert to pure healing, soothingspam, renewing on cd (rolling with TfT), uplift/enveloping to burn chi. smart heals go to the lowest health member and on malkorok you can have 1 health but full miasma and all smart heals go to that person. took a long time to explain this to our derpy disc priest. I also find I use the zen sphere talent more than the other 2 on nearly all fights I find it better, I like being able to control the healing I give out. Although I reccomend chi burst for garrosh.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by pathetic View Post
    get thok heal trink and nazgrim heal trink, go int + crit in yellow and make sure you dump at least 2 chi into a BOK and 1 into a TP to get zeal up every 20 secs. Don't uplift all the time, if you need to burn chi use enveloping/tiger palm/bok if +2 targets. Save the Tiger palm surging buff for when you really need it.
    This is like the perfect list of things not to do. Serpent's Zeal is a joke and does less healing than an Uplift or Enveloping Mist does over its entire duration. TP armor penetration buff is a joke as well, what is it that you think you're boosting by doing that, the pathetic 5k HPS Zeal provides? Burning chi on TP or BoK without Muscle Memory is a colossal waste of resources and GCDs, they don't do any damage without it. You would also never hold on to Vital Mist stacks, you just use it when you hit 5 for a free chi, it's not like it boosts healing done or anything.

    @OP, this right here sums up your problem
    uplift on cool down (which leads to a ton of over healing)
    Uplift doesn't have a cooldown. It takes resources. You can use those resources any time you want, and using them when no one needs healing means that you don't have them to use in the future. There is no need to compulsively press Uplift if people are going to take damage 3 seconds later, just hold onto it for a couple of seconds and use it then.

    You really just need to play better. On your Thok kill you only had 88% ReM uptime, which means that for almost 45 seconds you had ReM up on absolutely nobody. You also have a Spirit trinket with a 1.5 minute cooldown that you only used once but you spent 24 seconds drinking Mana Tea, that's a lot of wasted time and wasted stats. You also used TFT 3 times in a 6 minute fight, and while the damage pattern of Thok demands that you use it during each stack phase there's more than enough time to use it in kiting phases as well for a lot of extra healing. You're not doing anything fundamentally wrong, but you're just kind of lax with everything and letting things slip by that you know you should be doing. There isn't really a magic bullet that will solve all of your problems, just need to pay more attention to the fights and your buffs/cooldowns, maybe WeakAuras would help.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Burning chi is not a waste unless its needed for uplift which is only when large spike dmg comes, what else will you do with the chi?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pathetic View Post
    Burning chi is not a waste unless its needed for uplift which is only when large spike dmg comes, what else will you do with the chi?
    ...not use it? Why would you be generating chi when you don't need to do healing except through Renewing Mist? If you're using Expel on CD just to burn it again uselessly, you're completely wasting mana and GCDs for nothing. If you're spamming Soothing just to burn it again for mana tea, you're also wasting mana and GCDs. There is no mana positive rotation that generates chi and burns it for no reason, so the only time you purposefully generate chi is when you intend to heal with it or if you generated it with Jab you do damage with it. If you didn't need to Uplift, you should have just been healing through fistweaving in the first place, not generating unnecessary chi.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pathetic View Post
    I use both trinkets cleave + multistrike, I often just burn chi on TP/BOK its free smart heals. otherwise mistweaver is just waiting 8secs to put renewing up and uplift on bursts of dmg. Use Jab>uplift when you can spare the mana or need big heals/meta procs. Otherwise just burn that chi so you can blow more mana when its needed.

    Malkorok is a strange fight because smart heals are mostly useless, I mostly revert to pure healing, soothingspam, renewing on cd (rolling with TfT), uplift/enveloping to burn chi. smart heals go to the lowest health member and on malkorok you can have 1 health but full miasma and all smart heals go to that person. took a long time to explain this to our derpy disc priest. I also find I use the zen sphere talent more than the other 2 on nearly all fights I find it better, I like being able to control the healing I give out. Although I reccomend chi burst for garrosh.
    Cleave + multistrike is also a bad option, you should go amp+one of those. zen sphere is a good talent on paper but its just .. such trash healing on raw hps that its pretty much a joke.

    Chi burst for malkorok if you want to put out the numbers or chi wave for the spread healing. Also op stated he is running 10 man, you should never take chi burst for garrosh. Your job as a monk is to dps and put out those numbers to meet the checks, so chi wave is option nº1. The only reasoning i see going for chi burst is to get better cleave for the adds/intermission but if you do, your group is doing something very wrong.

  15. #15
    Why are you three healing the majority of 10man normal? We don't even 3 heal many of the fights in HEROIC SoO atm, and even on some of the fights we 2 heal, I FISTWEAVE because even 2 heals is more than we need to heal the encounter.

    You're losing because you're 3 healing and one of the other 2 healers is a paladin, who is absorbing damage before you even get the chance to heal it.

    Past that, you need to stop worrying about the healing meters. Higher hps doesn't equal higher usefulness. Sometimes I wish skada could tell you how many times my eminence spot healing actually SAVED someone's life, because if it could, I'm sure in overall usefulness I'd come out on top for almost every fight, especially after the dps I contribute is added into the mix.

    I suggest you learn how to fistweave. 3 healing normal is just overkill to the extreme.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Supburst View Post
    Thok trinket is far superior compared to nazgrim, so get the thok one.
    I don't agree with your logic of spending chi, you should use uplift when theres raid damage, sure, but wasting unnecessary globals on tigers palm/bok on a pure healing fight ex: Malkorok is a huge waste. 3 Healers is ok on protectors, Jug , Thok and Paragons. The whole instance can be done with 2 whoever.
    This is not true in a 10man environment, you have no idea what you are saying.

    Thok is only superior in a 10man environment when more than 5 players are stacked for the MAJORITY of the fight. This limits you to basically:

    Norushen
    Sha of Pride

    And that's it. I guess in normal mode you are probably stacking in a full group (You can't do that in heroic, you have to split into smaller groups and then stack to end the screech phases, and the trinket has an 8 yard range so it can't hit the maximum 5 players) so you could potentially use it there as well. But past those few fights, AMP + Nazgrim's or AMP + AMP wins EVERY time. On fights where you primarily fistweave, AMP + AMP is always the winner.

    My source?:

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...pec=Mistweaver

  16. #16
    Yes mistweavers are at the bottom along with holy paladins by a lt. You will nevr get close to a good duid, disc or resto shama on majority of the fights

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    This is not true in a 10man environment, you have no idea what you are saying.

    Thok is only superior in a 10man environment when more than 5 players are stacked for the MAJORITY of the fight. This limits you to basically:

    Norushen
    Sha of Pride

    And that's it. I guess in normal mode you are probably stacking in a full group (You can't do that in heroic, you have to split into smaller groups and then stack to end the screech phases, and the trinket has an 8 yard range so it can't hit the maximum 5 players) so you could potentially use it there as well. But past those few fights, AMP + Nazgrim's or AMP + AMP wins EVERY time. On fights where you primarily fistweave, AMP + AMP is always the winner.

    My source?:
    I'm not sure what tactics you use for a 10 man setup but, for our raid, we stack on immerseus, protectors, galakras ?, Jug, Shamans if you don't split, nazgrim, malkorok (pure hps fight), thok (If you position yourself correctly in melee you can reach most of the group), paragons and the bosses you said. That makes.. almost the whole Soo. I guess it depends on how many meeles you have but, as 1 melee + 2 tanks thats less than 30 % of the players not stacked which does put thok one ahead.

    For when damage is needed a lot more than healing, double amp is a clear winner. I was commenting on fights that don't follow that rule as cleared stated.

    My source ? Iam rank 1 Mistweaver for 10 mans as of now so i do have a idea of what i'm saying. Just because most do or use something a certain way, doesn't mean its the best way.
    Last edited by mmoca735b0894d; 2014-04-19 at 06:53 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by supburst View Post
    iam rank 1 mistweaver for 10 mans

    bam!! / 10

    Infracted
    Last edited by Callimonk; 2014-04-25 at 02:48 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Supburst View Post
    I'm not sure what tactics you use for a 10 man setup but, for our raid, we stack on immerseus, protectors, galakras ?, Jug, Shamans if you don't split, nazgrim, malkorok (pure hps fight), thok (If you position yourself correctly in melee you can reach most of the group), paragons and the bosses you said. That makes.. almost the whole Soo. I guess it depends on how many meeles you have but, as 1 melee + 2 tanks thats less than 30 % of the players not stacked which does put thok one ahead.

    For when damage is needed a lot more than healing, double amp is a clear winner. I was commenting on fights that don't follow that rule as cleared stated.

    My source ? Iam rank 1 Mistweaver for 10 mans as of now so i do have a idea of what i'm saying. Just because most do or use something a certain way, doesn't mean its the best way.
    Right, so why are you assuming your way IS the best way, again?

    I'm also assuming you're going off WorldofLogs, which by the way, NO serious Heroic guild uses anymore. You should be using Warcraftlogs now. If you aren't, then no one is going to take your "rank" seriously.

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...pec=Mistweaver

    Those are top HPS Mistweavers in 10man Heroic SoO. I don't see any one toon consistently on at #1 for any of those fights. Nor do I see anyone named "Supburst." Also, you have no toon posted in your signature here on mmo-c prior to my comment that's going to ensure I believe any of those are your toons. Furthermore, my logic would tell me you MIGHT be "Suplift" on the DPS side of the 10man Heroic ranks, in which case the only fight you rank 1 on is Dark Shamans, and I outrank you on 11/14 of the other fights in the raid instance.

    If you're going to try to flex your epeen, be a little more careful next time. People will actually *gasp* check your creditability.

    Anyway, back to the actual reason I posted on this thread in the first place: OP, the point everyone is making is that the bread and butter of a Mistweaver, in its current state, is Fistweaving. This counts especially for 10man where very few fights require a ton of healing. If you have a druid and a paladin already healing in your group, and they have no current plans to adopt a dps offspec for 2 or 1 heal fights, then you need to be going Fistweaver. In fact, even if that weren't the case, some fights net a higher HPS throughput with fistweaving simply because of damage buffs or the ability to cleave multiple targets. Paragons of the Klaxxi and Garrosh Hellscream immediately coming to mind.

    This doesn't mean you can completely neglect your traditional heals, however. Sometimes you have to switch between Fistweaving and Traditional healing on a fight to fight and phase to phase basis. ReM for quite a lot of fights still needs to be weaved in, and uplift is still necessary for phases where you know the raid is going to take raidwide aoe damage.

    It also depends on your composition. It depends on if you are very deep into farm or very deep into progression. It depends on a lot of external things that are going to affect how and when you heal damage.

    But the general consensus still stands: You want to fistweave in a 10man.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Right, so why are you assuming your way IS the best way, again?

    I'm also assuming you're going off WorldofLogs, which by the way, NO serious Heroic guild uses anymore. You should be using Warcraftlogs now. If you aren't, then no one is going to take your "rank" seriously.


    Those are top HPS Mistweavers in 10man Heroic SoO. I don't see any one toon consistently on at #1 for any of those fights. Nor do I see anyone named "Supburst." Also, you have no toon posted in your signature here on mmo-c prior to my comment that's going to ensure I believe any of those are your toons. Furthermore, my logic would tell me you MIGHT be "Suplift" on the DPS side of the 10man Heroic ranks, in which case the only fight you rank 1 on is Dark Shamans, and I outrank you on 11/14 of the other fights in the raid instance.

    If you're going to try to flex your epeen, be a little more careful next time. People will actually *gasp* check your creditability.
    I am not sure i like your passive aggressive tone, you should be reasonable.

    About the usage of worldoflogs vs warcraft logs, that's just, your opinion. Mine is that most guilds still use WoL just for the reason that is more known and since it as more players on the database it seems most fights you upload to warcraftlogs rank you better than WoL. Both websites are great tho.

    I like the time that you spent trying to figure out my toon, you are wrong on your logic. You are taking this matter way personal, i am not flexing my epeen by any means, rather stating a source, since yours was top monks, right ?

    My post count doesn't allow me to post links or have a signature, my char name is Lizy. Iam rank 1 on overall ranks on 10 man according to proraiders website, which you should know considering the knowledge you try to show. They use both websites for ranks and you can read the faq for more info about it. I hope i cleared the air and next time take it easy.
    Last edited by mmoca735b0894d; 2014-05-08 at 05:00 PM. Reason: clarification

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