1. #1
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada

    Heroic Thok 25 man - Help needed

    So we seem to have hit a little wall with this guy...after spoils and reading around looked like it would be full steam ahead and we would flatten him but looks like were having some hiccups!

    I will post our logs and will greatly appreciate any criticism or tips that any can provide!

    Log starts at the last pull... naturally the last one is always the best of the night :

    We are going for opening the acid first. We are 2 tanking with the off tank being for bat's and thok if MT dies. We let him get up to about 9-10 stacks in transition phase. Nothing really out of the ordinary compared to the "how to's" out there.

    This community has always been amazing in helping in the past so thank you all in advance for your time and advice!

  2. #2
    I don't do 25 man but 8 healers looks like complete overkill. I'd suggest dropping at least 2 healers and giving a little more thought to cooldowns. You have a complete over-abundance of them in 25 man that should be enough to get you through.

    It also looks like you need to get more damage on the boss in the kiting phase. I only looked at the first kite on the last attempt but whatever damage you did to him there was completely negated by his heal at the end. I know you are melee heavy but I'm sure you can get more onto him early in that phase because hes pretty slow and as long as people watch the fixate timer they shouldn't be chomped.

  3. #3
    8 healing is fine, especially for progression. Looking at there healers, i dont see them being able to pull off 6-7, there healing output is kind of low. Damage is also pretty low, so there def. gonna hit enrage timer. I would personally add more range, make sure range is on boss at all times, when opening the gates, make sure melee takes them down. Not sure how you guys handle bats but i assume there fine.

  4. #4
    You should extend your P1s to as close to 30 as possible with 8 healers.

  5. #5
    8 healers does seem rather high, some of them are doing very low healing for that fight, so you're probably wasting the healing. I mean some of them are doing about 150k hps, seems they are not contributing enough and you probably need to make better use of the many raid wide cd's available.

    I main a disc priest so thought I'd look at the 2 you have (very briefly), they are both wasting huge amounts of healing (pure healing+absorbs) by not using Archangel enough (one used it 5 times the other 6 times, in a 9 minute+ fight) That is extremely low, also, they don't seem to be using Star twice when they have AA up, such that they gain the 30% extra healing and 10% crit. This in itself is something you can try and fix, and you will easily be able to drop 2 healers for more damage. Tell them to always star when they pop AA (make sure they throw the star just AFTER the acceleration AoE goes out, so that it heals the raid up) and that they try and do it for the 2nd star before AA runs out (there's only a 3 second window, but you can delay it a second or so-so that the star heals the raid up, just make sure they throw it before AA runs out else they will risk not have AA ready the next time Star is off CD or vice-versa)

    Tell Alissia to ditch the Glyph of powerword shield, it's really bad for discs, can also drop spirit, 13k is pretty overkill for discs. (Especially for thok where theres downtimes on kite phase for regen)

    Is somnius shadow mainspec? I only ask because I can't see his/her healing gear as he/she logged in shadow spec and the only reason I ask is because his/her divine aegis was exceptionally low (star was his/hers main heal, should never be that high)

    Anyway, sorry it was brief and a little abrupt
    Last edited by Hypasonic; 2014-04-18 at 03:31 AM.

  6. #6
    Ive been wanting to replay all day. I can comment on our cooldown rotation.

    Phase 1
    Screech 5 Demo / Rally 1
    Screech 9 Rallying Cry
    Screech 10 HoP Tranq
    Screech 12 Healing Tide
    Screech 14 Devo 1 / Divine Hymn
    Screech 17 Devo 2 / Vamperic Embrace
    Screech 19 Healing Tide
    Screech 20 Devo 3 / Spirit Shell
    Screech 24 Barrier
    Screech 25 Soul Link Group

    Phase 2
    Screech 2 BoP Ele Shaman
    Screech 3 Spirit Shell
    Screech 4 Demo / Ascendance
    Screech 5 AG Healing Tide (Ele Shaman)
    Screech 7 Smoke Bombs
    Screech 9 BoP Tranq
    Screech 10 Spirit Link/ Group up

    If there is anything you see wrong with this rotation, definitely let me know.

    As for Power Word: Shield, what is the better option. Also Somnius is shadow main. He has only been doing disc for a little while since we did Juggernaut, so Im sure there is room for improvement. Thanks for the disc help. What kind of rotation should somnius be using for healing?

  7. #7
    Any glyph other than PW:S is better, because that just gimps a disc. Use devos earlier (around stacks 5/6 and chain all of them) Save cry/banner for later stacks (around 18) use barrier on ranged/smoke melee around 20 and stack up in link just after they wear off.

    Theres no real set "rotation" for a disc, its just all about maintaining AA and using Star off CD for this fight.

    The image above shows the differences between AA usage, on top is from my logs of thok this week (Incidentally we had an aids bat phase, pushed after 4 stacks) but its mainly just to show how it should be. As you see, I'm using AA near enough off cooldown and then using Divine Star twice per each AA for maximum effect. That's basically what you want to aim for when using Star, should almost always look like that on any fight.

    There might be other minor things, such as Inner Focus usage etc, but doing the above properly is the main thing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazkek View Post
    Ive been wanting to replay all day. I can comment on our cooldown rotation.

    Phase 1

    Phase 2

    If there is anything you see wrong with this rotation, definitely let me know.

    As for Power Word: Shield, what is the better option. Also Somnius is shadow main. He has only been doing disc for a little while since we did Juggernaut, so Im sure there is room for improvement. Thanks for the disc help. What kind of rotation should somnius be using for healing?
    i am an elemental shaman with many 95%+ percentile parses on thok best dps around 417k, your shaman has low damage on the bats considering he is using ascendance, maybe he is getting the BoP too early or not paying attention to it and still cancelling his casts? also i use my AG with ascendance pot on the bats for a massive healing boost, using it when you can only cast 1 spell at a time is terrible and does almost nothing.

    elemental blast is a hilarious talent choice it's not used for ANY fights let alone thok where it's extra fail having a spell thats hard to cast during movement phases and if you get locked out during his screeches you cannot cast anything for 2 seconds not even refresh FS or unleash. i would get him/her to run PE but UE is perfectly fine i've tested it but PE is just simpler and this shaman seems to be a little clueless.

    as for your cooldown rotation personally i use tide around 13-14 i believe in phase 1, and after i've finished my ascendance on the bats in phase 2 my tide is usually ready in about 10-15 seconds again so our kiting phase is longer therefore we get to use quite a lot of 3 minute raid cooldowns for phase 1 and phase 2, if you could extend kiting you will find healing much easier overall and gain more dps especially with 3 devotion auras your healers cannot fail. make sure every caster knows DA is up as well with weak auras or being called on TS/vent/mumble i know when i hear my raid leader call for cooldown 9 thats devotion aura i now watch my weak auras and know i don't have to stop any casts for 6 seconds instead of casting 1 spell and pausing for the screeech and casting 1 spell again having this 3 times is a big help to dps and healing so make sure they are using it.

    you might lose 1 or 2 people kiting for that long but the gain is worth it imo to get extra dps and have 3 minutes up for every phase, just have the slow people be near thok as he targets people they won't be able to be targeted and have fast classes stand far away, i've killed thok heroic 19 times and i have never kited him because of where i stand allowing me to maximise my dps especially because of how mobile the spec is.
    Last edited by Socialhealer; 2014-04-19 at 03:17 PM.

  9. #9
    We banged our heads on the wall on thok for several weeks, 137 wipes to be precise, in the end we went with 7 healers and did 29 stacks>27 stacks>27 stacks and took kite phase to 17 blood frenzy (clicked to open door at 14 stacks and 4 seconds) this way all the DPS and healing 3 minute CD's are available in every single stack phase meaning you can blow everything each time. We killed it during the 3rd kite so didn't have to deal with the fire.
    WoL is dead, long live WCL - http://www.warcraftlogs.com/

  10. #10
    By the looks of it you have too much healing at the beginning of the phase and not enough healing in later part. Your raid's HPS peaks at around 15 stacks of acceleration while it should peak around 28. You need to manage your HPS cooldowns better.

    Remember that you always need to combine HPS throughput cooldown like tranquility with damage reducing one (like smoke bomb). Using any cooldown before 6-7 stacks of acceleration is a waste. Save biggest healing CDs for 15+ stacks: your healers will have to heal 10 million health back every 3 seconds after Thok gains 15 stacks, and it is quite hard.

  11. #11
    in our raids as ele i use healing tide on 15 and use AG on 19-20 while our devos are up and its back again for bats where we use a devo for an offspec tranq on 5th stack so i can chain lightning +AG while devo is up. (unsure about 2 and 5 on transition says ur boping him on 2 and hes using AG and HTT on 5 or maybe thats just me not reading it right) might be better if hes using Healing tide on 2 and the AG with a bop at 5.
    As far as him using Elemental blast for this fight, that is very bad like EB (has a long cast time and gives a useless stat) is only usefull on target switching fights and even then its better to use Unleashed Fury usually especially on this fight as the dps he will loose to being spell locked, he can gain on the kiting phase tnx to UF

  12. #12
    Thank you all for the help. It looks like this weeks attempts will have some things changed. Use Devo aura earlier in the fight to have them up for the bats and for a little more dps during hero. Extend the kite phase to around 13 stacks or so. I wrote a custom weakaura lua to allow me to see when its been 3 minutes since the start of the fight so we can transition right away and then have all of our cooldowns come back for phase 2 and phase 3. Also I have/will notified the healers discussed here and dps issues for some to fix that. With all of these changes I actually feel like a kill is possible this week.

    I think we will also kite him differently, more like a star pattern around the room at first then up and down the hall for the faster stacks.

  13. #13
    Just do the up and down kiting, its just easier in 25 due to the many gateways and such.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Just do the up and down kiting, its just easier in 25 due to the many gateways and such.
    We only have 1 lock.

  15. #15
    We open cages at 10 stacks, he usually transitions at 13. Kiting back ad forth is not a big problem, but you have to use druid roars after 8th stack to help people move. Also, you should know that Thok prefers targeting players further away during kite phase, so you can dedicate a couple of people to "soak" fixates. Those people should run in the opposite direction from Thok so they will become his next fixate targets. Druids, monks and rogues are great for that.

    Edit: my "n" key does ot work

  16. #16

    Thats our kill vid, you can also see our cd rotation on the left hand side of the screen cause of angry assignments addon we use!

    We used a different kiting method as you'll see and also bypassed the yetti at the end.

    Kiting this way allowed us to have all 3 min cds up for each stacking phase!


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