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  1. #21
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chireru93 View Post
    as a healer, no class in particular makes me dread entering the group. what makes me dread the run is if they are horribly geared. we had a tank enter LFR on the dark shamans, warrior tank, dude had about a 460 ilvl with a couple dps pieces on and a couple pvp pieces. he had offset pieces that boosted his ilvl up so he could enter, and freely admitted to it followed by a "but I was honest?" when I stated we should kick him.
    I'd kick you for your lack of understanding of pvp pieces and tell him to put his offpieces on if they were suitable - which they likely were. If a 490 can tank haromm without taunt switching, a 460 can do it with. It's more than likely he tanked the first part fine, and the only thing in part 2 that can really kill tanks more than protectors is iron juggernaut.

    or the 460 ilvl monk tank in a flex run I ran with a friend. it was a guild run and the guy was in their guild, but nobody seemed to care that he couldn't even be arsed to get timeless gear to tank. he seemed like a competent tank (either that or my dang hots on my druid are just that op), but his gear was just wayyyy to low.
    So he was a competent tank and noone cared but you - the run apparently went fine but your complaining because his ilvl was low.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    I don't know what it is but the worst players in groups I get stuck with are a blood elf of some description.
    My theory is that blood elf "males" have the option to have spikey, anime style hair, which is popular with younger players, who roll either a deathknight or a paladin to be the cool bad ass anime hero with big weapon stereotype. I could be wrong but that's how I see it.

    For me, the tanking class with the worst reputation is paladin. The majority I meet in forums are intelligent, awesome people. The majority I meet in game (in pugs usually) are just your average window lickers getting carried by their abundance of utility (even when they rarely know how/when to use it)
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  3. #23
    Based on my MoP experiences I have to vote for Monks. Especially Pandaren monks. In fact any Pandaren tank you get, regardless of class, is most likely to be a complete retard.

    Death Knights seem to have been quite few in numbers lately. I guess half of them rolled pandas.

  4. #24
    You guys are funny. But on topic, it's motivating me to get in there with that "Oh crap" stereotype hanging over my head and just be competent. Can't wait to get home and play tonight. Hurray for the weekend. Still kinda stuck between Druid and Monk to be honest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    Based on my MoP experiences I have to vote for Monks. Especially Pandaren monks. In fact any Pandaren tank you get, regardless of class, is most likely to be a complete retard.

    Death Knights seem to have been quite few in numbers lately. I guess half of them rolled pandas.
    This though makes me want to go Panda Monk.

  5. #25
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    DK. For some reason the majority of DK "Tanks" that I have come across don't seem to understand that they actually need tanking gear, so they bitch about healers being bad when they get destroyed.

    What little I played of MoP, Monk "Tanks" were very often just terrible. Which didn't make a lot of sense to me, because Monk tank gear and DPS gear is pretty damn close as far as stats go.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenotetsuken View Post
    DK. For some reason the majority of DK "Tanks" that I have come across don't seem to understand that they actually need tanking gear, so they bitch about healers being bad when they get destroyed..

    You don't need any gear to click death strike
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  7. #27
    Mostly I cringe nowadays when I see a tank with a 4 or 5 infront of their HP pool. Boosted toons has lead to a lot of inexperienced tanks in horrendous gear, which is a bad combination. You do occasionally see a tank with 500-600k hp who's actually quite solid, but it's a rarity atm.

    Stam stacking isn't optimal, but once the number gets large enough you can heal any variety of idiocy in LFR/flex/normal. A decent healer can heal an afk dribbling idiot through just about anything if that dribbling idiot has ~750k+ health.

    Brewmasters tend to be squishiest imo. The complexity of the class is overrated, but they do need to actually do something in order to not be a high-stamina rogue whereas the other classes have their baseline passive mitigation more built in. All the cool kids avoiding stamina like the plague doesn't help incompetent Brewmasters either. It also isn't great that kegsmash can pick up every single mob in a trash pack with one button, so that the incompetent brewmaster ends up tanking everything.

    Oh, and conversely - Bears & Warriors tend to make me optimistic. Even idiots can mitigate ok with them.

    Naturally, if played competently, any tank class is just fine. Which I'd prefer will depend on encounter mechanics + relative player skill.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2014-04-19 at 06:27 AM.

  8. #28
    Epic! theostrichsays's Avatar
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    In general, at least personally Death Knights. Not because they are bad but because the sheer number of Blood DKs that are running around, its bound to be a portion of them suck, and that portion of them is just larger then most other classes (at least from a pugging perspective.) I started a oQue prior to writing this, Flex 4 Garrosh, had 6 Blood Dks WL and 1 Prot Warrior 1 Prot Pallie. Blood Dks just seem to be very common in the lfr/flex/normal world.
    At the start of the Xpac it was Monk tanks, by God it was either awful... or amazing there seemed to be no middle ground.
    As a Bear tank for a bit over 2 xpacs, I have caught a lot of crap by people who still abide by the concept that a tank needs a plank of wood in one hand.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by lakhesis View Post
    Brewmasters tend to be squishiest imo. The complexity of the class is overrated, but they do need to actually do something in order to not be a high-stamina rogue whereas the other classes have their baseline passive mitigation more built in. All the cool kids avoiding stamina like the plague doesn't help incompetent Brewmasters either.
    A Brewmaster's base damage mitigation from their Stance is 25% damage reduction right off the bat, about +25% staggered if they're naked or somehow managed to have no mastery on any of their gear or have a mastery buff at all, so that's 25% on top of 25% if they do a single Blackout Kick it's another 20% staggers, additively, so that's 45% staggered after reducing the damage by 25% to start with. Then you throw in that they have all have exactly 28% Parry after kicking just once and around 30-35% dodge without using a cooldown and Brewmasters are pretty damn stable.

    The issue is people play them by just pushing buttons halfassedly, forgetting to kick at all because Breath looks cool, forget they have a +30% dodge button available about every 10 seconds or less (that can just about be blanketed at this point), forget that any staggered damage can be removed at basically any moment they feel like it, and instead of an untouchable supergod you have a squishy Rogue standing there poisoning themself instead of doing their job.

    It's not "overrated" to say they're complicated. People go in expecting the ease of a Death Knight tank and instead get a Bear Druid with holy power.
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  10. #30
    Worst reputation is probably Blood Elf anything. Particularly dks.

    The perception (not necessarily the reality) is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulven View Post
    My theory is that blood elf "males" have the option to have spikey, anime style hair, which is popular with younger players, who roll either a deathknight or a paladin to be the cool bad ass anime hero with big weapon stereotype. I could be wrong but that's how I see it.
    I do personally believe there is something to this, but there's also the fact that by far the majority (compared to other races) of Horde players are Blood Elves. Which means, even if bad players were spread evenly throughout all races, Blood Elves would still have the majority of bad players.

    DKs have the worst reputation as they were the original active mitigation tanks, so bad ones were easier to spot in previous xpacs and many remember that. (This is similar to hunter weaponz jokes)

    Monks could surpass them eventually.

  11. #31
    Monk definitly. Because shuffle is hard apearantly. Let alone their other buttons.

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  12. #32
    For lower skilled players : BM monk
    For higher skilled players : Paladins

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    For lower skilled players : BM monk
    For higher skilled players : Paladins
    Got my monk to lvl21 so far, kind of different for sure. Anyways, Pally's are hard now? Again, back in mid WotLK, they were like the easiest class ever to tank with. Funny to see they are actually hard now. Kind of cool though, I used look at Pally's as the lazy tanks.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    A Brewmaster's base damage mitigation from their Stance is 25% damage reduction right off the bat, about +25% staggered if they're naked or somehow managed to have no mastery on any of their gear or have a mastery buff at all, so that's 25% on top of 25% if they do a single Blackout Kick it's another 20% staggers, additively, so that's 45% staggered after reducing the damage by 25% to start with. Then you throw in that they have all have exactly 28% Parry after kicking just once and around 30-35% dodge without using a cooldown and Brewmasters are pretty damn stable.

    The issue is people play them by just pushing buttons halfassedly, forgetting to kick at all because Breath looks cool, forget they have a +30% dodge button available about every 10 seconds or less (that can just about be blanketed at this point), forget that any staggered damage can be removed at basically any moment they feel like it, and instead of an untouchable supergod you have a squishy Rogue standing there poisoning themself instead of doing their job.

    It's not "overrated" to say they're complicated. People go in expecting the ease of a Death Knight tank and instead get a Bear Druid with holy power.

    The problem is that stagger isn't passive damage reduction,you will still take the damage from stagger,A LOT of damage.Stagger can't be purify every time because monk don't have the resource for it.So yeah stagger can be purify...but the monk will still take more damage than a passive damage reduction.

    While a warrior have for example around 60% physical damage reduction from armor,25% stance reduction,30% reduction from block and more HP.They have that much passive damage reduction while doing absolutely nothing and that damage reduction is up 100% no matter what happen.

    So yeah,compare to others tank,monk can't be use passively because they will be absolute garbage.

  15. #35
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    I'm puzzled not a single person said prot warrior.

    Of course you'll find lots of bad players in any spec, but the bad prot warriors tend to be truly "special". First, they're convinced that they're super awesome because they play prot warrior (which is the hardest tanking spec - brewmaster doesn't count because pandas). Frequently they'll claim they've played that character since vanilla, and in general act like a huge diva. A diva that sucks.

    If they die, it's always the healers' fault. Because they need to stand in that pool of ouchy stuff to get more vengeance... so they can keep aggro. Yes, threat still matters for prot warriors, because Blizzard nerfed sunder. Yes, of course it was much better in vanilla when they could tank in arms. Oh, by the way, they played since vanilla.

    And the reason they forgot to use all their awesome utility stuff like spell reflect, shockwave and interrupt? They were probably too busy thinking about vanilla. And aoe tanking? That's for those dirty paladins and bears. Back in vanilla, they never had to do that. CC mattered in vanilla. Yep, that's why the healer got aggro and died. Should've waited for 5 sunders and recruited a mage that can sheep.

    Usually they rolled the warrior last expansion. I hope. Because if they play this bad after 9 years on the same class, I feel really sorry for them.
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  16. #36
    I dislike brewmasters. No matter where you are, there is always this pull-instant death risk with them at least that's my experience with them (don't play a monk myself). That said as soon as they are warm they can really do some awesome stuff.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I'd kick you for your lack of understanding of pvp pieces and tell him to put his offpieces on if they were suitable - which they likely were. If a 490 can tank haromm without taunt switching, a 460 can do it with. It's more than likely he tanked the first part fine, and the only thing in part 2 that can really kill tanks more than protectors is iron juggernaut.
    Im sorry but thats ridiculous, if you queue SoO lfr you should at least have 496 ilvl equipped as a responsible position as a tank non-theless.

    Im pretty sure 99.9% would agree to kicking a ~460ilvl tank to find a ~496 equivalent.
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  18. #38
    Mechagnome Flalia4's Avatar
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    Well when you had supposedly stopped playing it was dk tanks. Everybody hated them. Whenever I heal now though I love seeing a bear tank. They're by far the easiest to heal. Rest of the classes all vary depending on skill really but nothing stands out as 2bad4school.

  19. #39
    At the moment, DKs. The boost gave free 600 professions if you get to 60 first which is cake for a DK. As a result you see a lot of terribad DKs running around in 483 greens without a shred of a clue.

  20. #40
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    Death Knights got a very bad reputation when they launched because everyone and their dog was playing one, but Monks didn't have that issue because leveling from 1 - 90 was very off-putting to many.

    Personally, as a Brewmaster, I agree it's us now. It's too easy for the inexperienced to allow Shuffle to fall off, to not reset Stagger at the right time, to not use our Cooldowns properly or to starve ourselves of Chi / Energy. Combine all that together, and I generally believe you've got a tank not idea to those without experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I'd kick you for your lack of understanding of pvp pieces and tell him to put his offpieces on if they were suitable - which they likely were. If a 490 can tank haromm without taunt switching, a 460 can do it with. It's more than likely he tanked the first part fine, and the only thing in part 2 that can really kill tanks more than protectors is iron juggernaut.
    I've met people like you (and the one you're quoting) before in the LFR. I do it while I'm bored, on my 571 Brewmaster, and it's fun to do. I've had Tanks come in with full PvP Gear thinking they can tank it just fine, and they get slaughtered in seconds.

    PvP gear on a DPS is a possibility, you might get away with it, but on a Tank, not a chance. The stat budget has little or not room for any defensive stats, and while Monks could get away with it (We use things such as Crit, Mastery, Agility, for defensive purposes), it's still a huge issue and going to put extra pressure on the Healers.

    If the run goes fine, fair enough, but that's not likely because the Tank was any good, but because the Healers covered for him, or the other Tank went out of his way to help. I've had to do it before, and it's not a issue personally, but to the Healers just trying to get a LFR clear, it's unwanted pressure.

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