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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    If it's Cata Retri you want to play you're better off playing Priest as Shadow

    Brb, gonna head to the Pala forums to give them the bad news...!!
    Haha, while I agree with us having turned into ranged retri in terms of rotation, we atleast differentiate by being ranged vs melee!

  2. #182
    It's ok on single target fights with low movement. Great on multi-target fights (protectors, council, nazgrim, etc...) but single target high movement fights? Just... don't look at the meters and you'll be ok >.> The thing about shadow is it has some good utility in the form of vamp embrace and self heals and such. And Dispersion can be used to completely ignore some mechanics. All in all, it's not in GREAT shape but not bad, either.

  3. #183

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Koilie View Post
    after 575 they are good
    After 575 you're just pretty much burning through stuff and it hardly matters anymore. Heck at this point this whole discussion doesn't really matter anymore. But no matter how good people were at playing shadow we were undeniably bad for progression and we did drag down our raid teams on every single fight but Thok for not bringing another warlock or enh shaman instead. And we did suck big time as damage dealers on Thok too, but at least our utility (curse mass dispel) actually made up for our shortcommings there.

    We were never as bad in SoO as we were during MoP, we were a viable raiding DPS spec. That said, shadow was the worst possible choice for a caster spot for SoO.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    After 575 you're just pretty much burning through stuff and it hardly matters anymore. Heck at this point this whole discussion doesn't really matter anymore. But no matter how good people were at playing shadow we were undeniably bad for progression and we did drag down our raid teams on every single fight but Thok for not bringing another warlock or enh shaman instead. And we did suck big time as damage dealers on Thok too, but at least our utility (curse mass dispel) actually made up for our shortcommings there.

    We were never as bad in SoO as we were during MoP, we were a viable raiding DPS spec. That said, shadow was the worst possible choice for a caster spot for SoO.
    Most guilds ran with 2 during progression, same for most top guilds, just because of that extra healing and other utility that they provide.

    I'd say in case of shadow add their healing to their damage and you'll have an accurate view on shadow.

    Pretty much same thing for other classes that have nerfed damage because of their offspec healing capabilities.
    ----

    WoD Launch date on 28/10 OR 11/11 OR 18/11. Updated on 01/08/2014.

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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    just because of that extra healing
    Bring another shaman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    and other utility that they provide.
    Your disc priest(s) bring that same utility sans tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    I'd say in case of shadow add their healing to their damage and you'll have an accurate view on shadow.
    Do the same in the case of enh shaman (or even ele) and you'll see shadow is not the option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Pretty much same thing for other classes that have nerfed damage because of their offspec healing capabilities.
    Elemental and... oh wait. Also, elemental is the strongest cleave spec and did not take loot from your mage/lock, which was important during progression.

    Again, I'm neither saying shadow sucks nor that it's not viable. I love playing shadow. Just saying it was the worst option for a ranged spot during progression, and the reason guilds brought spriests was most likely because they already had them (at least two top guilds did state that in their postmortems).
    Last edited by Dierdre; 2014-05-10 at 06:51 PM.

  7. #187
    Field Marshal Setheria's Avatar
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    I'd say in case of shadow add their healing to their damage and you'll have an accurate view on shadow.
    That's a reasonable thing to do, however in saying that, have you ever looked to see how much of shadow healing is overhealing or on the reverse, insufficient to keep people up during strong spike damage?

    Not to suggest the healing is bad - it is decent. But it's often less efficient than you would surmise given the prevalence of smart healing.

  8. #188
    From my experience damage wise in the current raid content,

    We are good at Heroic Protectors and Nazgrim
    Terrible at Heroic Malkrok, Iron Jug, Thok (dmg wise)
    Mediocre at all the other fights.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Selinax View Post
    From my experience damage wise in the current raid content,

    We are good at Heroic Protectors and Nazgrim
    Terrible at Heroic Malkrok, Iron Jug, Thok (dmg wise)
    Mediocre at all the other fights.
    Not gonna insult a 8/hour week guild since I admire guilds like that but I do want to note you are 25 with 577 avg ilvl and you haven't done the last 3 yet, so you cannot comment on those. Removing the padding and multidot we are bottom on the last two, which are also the most difficult two. I already explained why Shadow is alright on Siege, but not really desirable. Mage, Warlock, Ele are all going to be better and a good Balance will also be able to compete with you for the spot. Don't think I'll have to mention Hunter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Setheria View Post
    That's a reasonable thing to do, however in saying that, have you ever looked to see how much of shadow healing is overhealing or on the reverse, insufficient to keep people up during strong spike damage?

    Not to suggest the healing is bad - it is decent. But it's often less efficient than you would surmise given the prevalence of smart healing.
    Look at how much Shadow healing is going to snipe from other healers such as for example a Mistweaver. Not every HPS is equal.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  10. #190
    The Patient Lellybaby's Avatar
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    Hi Everyone,

    I very much appreciate this thread as I have just came back to WoW and I was worried that I was doing something horribly wrong when my dps was so much less than the others.

    I just wanted to ask if anyone knows the answer.

    What approx dps would you expect from the following ilvls (Single target and multi-target if you can)

    540+

    550+

    560+
    The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.
    – Alice Walker

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Lellybaby View Post
    What approx dps would you expect from the following ilvls (Single target and multi-target if you can)

    540+
    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lellybaby View Post
    550+
    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lellybaby View Post
    560+
    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.



    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.



    ~5-10% below average ST, average on multitarget.
    I guess is more easy to beat the dead horse.

    Hi Everyone,

    I very much appreciate this thread as I have just came back to WoW and I was worried that I was doing something horribly wrong when my dps was so much less than the others.

    I just wanted to ask if anyone knows the answer.

    What approx dps would you expect from the following ilvls (Single target and multi-target if you can)

    540+

    550+

    560+
    There is a thread for this kind of question if you feel like you are underperforming http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-My-DPS-Thread, we cant really give you an exact number without an armory and some logs, there are so many variables like cloak or not, how many haste you have and what kind of gear you have.

  13. #193
    The Patient Lellybaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post



    There is a thread for this kind of question if you feel like you are underperforming http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-My-DPS-Thread, we cant really give you an exact number without an armory and some logs, there are so many variables like cloak or not, how many haste you have and what kind of gear you have.
    Thanks for the Link Masterik I will post in there after this week's Flex/Normal Guild run. My Guild has been clearing Garrosh normal for a while now so they are all pretty much 560+ plus and doing upwards of 300k dps.

    Originally gearing a disc priest I know I have too much spirit/hit and my gems for crit are pretty useless. Unfortunately I logged out in my healing set so no point posting now.
    The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.
    – Alice Walker

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Lellybaby View Post
    Thanks for the Link Masterik I will post in there after this week's Flex/Normal Guild run. My Guild has been clearing Garrosh normal for a while now so they are all pretty much 560+ plus and doing upwards of 300k dps.

    Originally gearing a disc priest I know I have too much spirit/hit and my gems for crit are pretty useless. Unfortunately I logged out in my healing set so no point posting now.
    Try not to worry too much about it, there are not many fights where you will get fair measurement of your own skill compared to the rest of the group. The only very good fights for us right now are the Protectors and the Klaxxi Paragons, there we can really shine with our multidotting (if people give you lip about multidotting on Klaxxi.. just remind them that the more targets you have dotted, the more procs you can throw on the skull ).

    I'll be honest I was often disappointed by my SPs performance on many of the other fights.. despite trying your very best, the fact is SPs are not getting fair treatment right now and if someone has similar gear to you and is about as skilled too, they will often beat you just by having picked a different class, in other words a warlock. With other classes the dps difference is acceptable most of the times, and when you practice your dot snapshotting, you can still be a very powerful dps.

    As long as you have fun playing it, try not to worry about your SP's dps right now, things will be much better come Warlord's of Draenor. (grasses greener I know)
    Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    I'll be honest I was often disappointed by my SPs performance on many of the other fights.. despite trying your very best, the fact is SPs are not getting fair treatment right now and if someone has similar gear to you and is about as skilled too, they will often beat you just by having picked a different class, in other words a warlock. With other classes the dps difference is acceptable most of the times, and when you practice your dot snapshotting, you can still be a very powerful dps.
    Of course, it always helps if your raid group is understanding. Otherwise your RL will always be asked why you're in on fights.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by buffalowbie View Post
    Of course, it always helps if your raid group is understanding. Otherwise your RL will always be asked why you're in on fights.
    That's a given. While our overly glorified off-healing really can be quite a nice in 5.4, I've never ever heard the words "we could use the extra off-healing you bring".
    Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU

  17. #197
    While we are lacking in dps, we make up with how badass we look while in shadowform and generally having great fun with lifegrip (used on cooldown ofc)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tinslot/simple 14/14 Herioc Oceanic spriest.

    R.I.P Lifegrip

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    That's a given. While our overly glorified off-healing really can be quite a nice in 5.4, I've never ever heard the words "we could use the extra off-healing you bring".
    I've never heard the words "please try and off heal as much as possible". Even on Iron Jugg.

    My raid team is about 14 people. I've come to accept I will not be in on guild first kills anymore, not unless some dps are sick the night we finally manage to down it, which is how I got my Malk kill. I've missed out on spoils and thok (I'll hopefully get my kill this weekend), and I haven't even seen siegecrafter yet.

    My raid team essentially sees me as a glorified sporebat. It's depressing (and yeah, I'm looking for a new team where that won't happen).

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by buffalowbie View Post
    (and yeah, I'm looking for a new team where that won't happen).
    Nope. You're looking for a new expansion where that won't happen.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    Nope. You're looking for a new expansion where that won't happen.
    That too.

    I can out dps everyone on protectors except the fire mage, and I'm usually just 5-10k behind him (did beat him once). Seeing how the mages (we have two) should be wiping the floor with me on that fight, I just usually want to scream at my screen "See? See this fight? I CAN OUTPLAY YOU. IT'S THE CLASS" whenever someone complains about my "low dps".

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