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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    I just wanted to comment on this because I don't think its a matter of you being a good player or not. You could be amazing, but 517 is still INCREDIBLY low. To get the mount, Garrosh has to die on Normal. He drops 553 item level gear. That is multiple tiers ahead of what you are. Even if you played your class to 110% of what its capable of doing, you will still be leagues behind the minimum requirement to do it. Essentially, you would have to be carried in order to achieve what you want right now. Yes, no one carries. That isn't a crack at you, or people looking down on you... its just you have to work for your achievement.

    Just like others have mentioned, there are quick and easy ways to pad your item level up. You can get the Timeless gear that is 535. Do Celestials. Work on your Legendary cape. Of course, you can do your LFRs. Craft the 553 off pieces. Get some SoO LFR gear and hop into some flexes. You'll be well above 530 item level in no time. Still, you will most likely need ~550 item level to even be considered for Garrosh but first thing is first.
    Depends on the group really, i killed garrosh at 525 ilvl, but i also am a healer and know both my main and alt very well. My 540 healer now destroys most healers that are 560 with a cloak. Hell in an alt run a couple days ago, i was beating an ilvl 568 healer. Truth is, people have this notion that ilvl=skill, when in fact, i have seen multiple 560+ players that were absolute garbage.

    I agree with some people though, run your own. I use to run my own flexes on my alt cause his ilvl was so low, but i never got carried. I mean im not gonna bring my 578 toon to a flex. People are getting out of hand with garrosh requirements. The fight is an absolute joke!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by strues View Post
    But WHY should we? Theres absolutely no reason a 515 person cant go through the same hoops of progression that everyone else went through.

    The solution comes down to if you dont like the rules, make your own group. If I wanted to make a group requiring 575+ for NORMAL SoO I could. Would people complain? Fuck yes they would. Would the group fill? You bet it would. So if people want to complain that groups dont want to carry their pathetic item levels maybe they should spend their time earning gear as opposed to whining about it. It takes almost ZERO effort to get 535-540 these days. I had a toon who hit 550 without even stepping into normal SoO.
    I realize what your point is but using a 575 for a normal soo is a bit lol. I won't step foot in a normal run on my 578 main, but i know what you were trying to do there lol

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    I just wanted to comment on this because I don't think its a matter of you being a good player or not. You could be amazing, but 517 is still INCREDIBLY low. To get the mount, Garrosh has to die on Normal. He drops 553 item level gear. That is multiple tiers ahead of what you are. Even if you played your class to 110% of what its capable of doing, you will still be leagues behind the minimum requirement to do it. Essentially, you would have to be carried in order to achieve what you want right now. Yes, no one carries. That isn't a crack at you, or people looking down on you... its just you have to work for your achievement.

    Just like others have mentioned, there are quick and easy ways to pad your item level up. You can get the Timeless gear that is 535. Do Celestials. Work on your Legendary cape. Of course, you can do your LFRs. Craft the 553 off pieces. Get some SoO LFR gear and hop into some flexes. You'll be well above 530 item level in no time. Still, you will most likely need ~550 item level to even be considered for Garrosh but first thing is first.
    One of our raiders downed Garrosh on normal on an alt, as a 522 ilvl blood dk, a few weeks ago in our alt run. 517 is low, agreed, but it's not THAT low if a player is competent.

    Generally speaking, it's easier to gear a skilled player than to teach a geared player how to play.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/tag/flex-item-level/

    We need more people like this. Otherwise I truly feel bad for those of you who have to pug content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by strues View Post
    But WHY should we? Theres absolutely no reason a 515 person cant go through the same hoops of progression that everyone else went through.

    The solution comes down to if you dont like the rules, make your own group. If I wanted to make a group requiring 575+ for NORMAL SoO I could. Would people complain? Fuck yes they would. Would the group fill? You bet it would.
    Why the fuck would someone with a 575 ilvl want to run normal SoO? Maybe on an alt or something or if they're REALLY bored, otherwise good luck with that lol.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    yeah this happens in every game I know off. I remember Ultima Online having that problem. So ... welcome to random matchmaking I guess

    - - - Updated - - -

    yeah this happens in every game I know off. I remember Ultima Online having that problem. So ... welcome to organized random groups, I guess
    lolwut? You mean people used to be all like "Oh, you're wearing Iron and not Valorite"? GTFO.... I definitely don't remember ANYTHING like that, and I played from from launch until Pub15

  4. #44
    Dreadlord Akaena's Avatar
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    I love how people think random people who raid = all the of the raiding community priceless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also the people who make random post title called "OMG the WoW community is bad now" then go on saying I've been playing this game for x amount of years makes me wonder if they have been living under a rock or just blind cause it hasn't changed.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It fills me with such joy what people have turned into. I'm 7/14 heroic, trying to find Flex groups for my alt. I get turned down by everyone cause my alts ilvl is 532. No one cares about experience anymore.

    I have seen some lame excuses too. Like "Just because you can raid heroics on one character doesn't mean you know how to play another that well".

    Yes I'm ranting. Cause I have been trying to find raid groups for my alt for weeks now and turned down cause everyone wants 550+ ilvl + Leg Cloak for even Flex groups.
    It's not that you don't know the fights. Nah flex fights are simple. It's that you won't pull the dps they want. Some players wanna steamroll it, so they grab higher ilvls. Just make your own group.

  6. #46
    Let's see, I have a guy here with 517 ilevel that thinks he was a bigshot raider in TBC and wrath that wants in my group...

    Meanwhile i'm getting whispers from people who are 540-550+ who have experience in CURRENT content...

    Dang, should I invite the better geared people with experience with what matters or the lowbie because he needs gear upgrades and is apparently too lazy to do anything about getting his ilevel above 517 even though there are a dozen avenues for getting gear higher ilevel than that...

    Choices...

    Also, grats on judging the entire raiding community on your small sample of people who don't want to carry your sub-520 character through current content.

    To the OP, there's plenty of people with more appropriate gear who are looking to pug current content, there is no REASON to lower your standards and increase the risk of getting a fail in your raid when there's plenty of better people around. And the fact you killed 7/14 heroic bosses on your main doesn't mean shit. I'm a 14/14 heroic raider and have been for a long time, but I have shitty alts like my hunter that I don't play and don't give a shit about. I think it's like 520 ilevel or something and zero progress on legendary cloak because I just don't give a shit. You think my 14/14 heroic experience is going to magically make my shitty hunter do sustained 300k dps ? No. I know how to play my hunter well, and I can do the fights blindfolded on normal mode, but it doesn't mean shit when your damage is sub-par. I could do respectable damage at 520, but nowhere near what a better geared hunter would do, even a shittier player because honestly most classes are so easy to play anyone can do decent numbers unless they have a learning disability.

    The only time you'd get an invite with your "experience" trumping your ilevel is if you can do some specialized shit like soloing the belts on blackfuse. If you can pull that off, that's a big seller for pug groups because fucking up belts is a hassle and having an experienced person dealing with ALL of them isn't crazy common. Most of the time ilevel is more important because they want to just run through the content as fast as possible and they can't do that with low geared people.

    Raids are not charities. You aren't taken for some "greater good" of gearing up everyone in the community, you are taken specifically for gearing up the raid leader and/or people who go with the raid leader and you are PAID for these services with the chance at getting your own loot.
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  7. #47
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    I'm sorry but the majority of dps I have met in LFR who have had higher ilevels, I always ended up beating them in DPS. Its the same with tanking. Literally today, I wanted to try tanking and although I had some dps gear on, I felt like I would still perform adequetely but NOPE! LOL THE TANK HAS ONLY LESS THEN 600K HP KICK HIM. WOW BOOSTED! WOW SHIT TANK!! Seriously, there was this guy who did that. I also was never boosted, I just had some timeless gear on.

    The point that I am trying to make is that only baddies want higher ilevels. The most skilled of players know that you don't need high ilevels to get anything done, as long as you have skill and knowledge of your class and bosses (and the strong pc while you're at it), you will do just fine. But NOPE! Only morons want that. And yes, get offended. There are many here who thought Cataclysm healing was hard and love MoP's easy healing.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraftwerk View Post
    I resubbed 2 weeks ago in the hopes I would get to kill Garrosh for the wolf before the next expansion, but I have already cancelled my sub and given up playing.

    My iLvl is 517, no one wants me because I am a "scrub" and bring nothing to the raid, and experience doesn't matter. The fact I raided hardcore BC until Cata means nothing now, with such a crap ilvl I wont get to raid.

    OpenRaid isn't helping at all either; flex groups have high requirements which I'll never meet. Even if I was fully geared in LFR gear I wouldn't meet the requirements of these people. And thats my next point; LFR isn't even doable anymore. I have put hours and hours into LFR over the last two weeks; eventually every boss was killed (except Garrosh, haven't nailed him yet as the groups are incapable of tactics), and I have been rewarded with two pieces of loot, and that is using all my bonus rolls. So I could run LFR for weeks and weeks and weeks to come, be faced with horrible luck, gradually increase my ilvl at a snails pace, and still not be eligible to even join a flex group from open raid.

    So yeah, I agree, the community is crap. I understand what Seezer said about people not wanting their time to be wasted, but that then affects me and the many others who most definitely aren't scrubs and most definitely can raid and pull their weight, regardless of ilvl.

    But whatever, I thought I'd resub for some casual raiding fun (cant commit to an actual raiding guild as I'm a student) but obviously not, I'll be back in WoD for some more casual fun then
    WoW is back at the point where you have to be decently geared to get good groups. The end of Cataclysm took us away from that with the easy dungeon and LFR rewards. So if you want good gear and good experience you'll have to put in a little work. Here's my advice:

    Spam LFRs and Celestials and if you can, Ordos for gear. Fully upgrade all of your gear. That will give you 536 ilvls at least. Start trying to form your own groups for the first two Flex modes. Look up the strategies online and read some guides, then start forming. Even if you don't completely clear it and only get a few bosses, remember that it's all progression and you're working towards something. Also, if possible, try to get a Heroic Throne of Thunder group going. You could probably get some Heroic SoO raiders that are interested who can steamroll at least the first few bosses in the instance. You can get some 535 gear this way which, when upgraded, will give you 543 ilvl. Get some crafted gear, etc. Eventually you should be able to get to around a 545 ilvl and you can get into a few Flex groups. Then you'll be golden.

    As for the OP, I know it's frustrating to get into groups on your alt, but I hate to tell you that 7/14 H SoO doesn't mean anything. Over 8000 guilds have cleared through, which means you're going to get some bad players. So right now gear is becoming the sole limiting factor unless you can link a Cutting Edge / anything over 9/14 Heroic.

  9. #49
    In this thread:
    Tons of people who are gods gift to pugging, all capable of beating 95% of their peers with better item levels, and even legendary cloaks on their alts.
    Meanwhile they don't seem to realise that exactly BECAUSE they can do this, people have to be extremely picky about gear levels and experience. If you're beating 9 out of 10 people with better gear than you already, do you expect that number to go down if you take people with less gear?


    Quote Originally Posted by healzforu View Post
    Depends on the group really, i killed garrosh at 525 ilvl, but i also am a healer and know both my main and alt very well. My 540 healer now destroys most healers that are 560 with a cloak. Hell in an alt run a couple days ago, i was beating an ilvl 568 healer. Truth is, people have this notion that ilvl=skill, when in fact, i have seen multiple 560+ players that were absolute garbage.
    Did your low level healers happen to be disc priest/shaman, and did the high level healer you beat happen to be a monk? Because there's a reason for you being top HPS if so :3.
    Also, HPS=/=skill. Anyone can keep pressing their aoe heal, actually being able to pump out numbers when it matters is something entirely different (EG keeping the raid sustained is easy, but if you've got two 520 ilvl healers on Garrosh, they're going to be in for a bad time when he starts whirling or you go into the intermission, no matter your supposed "skill").

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by strues View Post
    But WHY should we? Theres absolutely no reason a 515 person cant go through the same hoops of progression that everyone else went through.

    The solution comes down to if you dont like the rules, make your own group. If I wanted to make a group requiring 575+ for NORMAL SoO I could. Would people complain? Fuck yes they would. Would the group fill? You bet it would. So if people want to complain that groups dont want to carry their pathetic item levels maybe they should spend their time earning gear as opposed to whining about it. It takes almost ZERO effort to get 535-540 these days. I had a toon who hit 550 without even stepping into normal SoO.
    Grats on missing the point. I was mocking your attitude because you think a 540-550 alt is under geared in flex. It drops 540 for Gods sake.

  11. #51
    Field Marshal strues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Grats on missing the point. I was mocking your attitude because you think a 540-550 alt is under geared in flex. It drops 540 for Gods sake.
    Never did I say 540 is too low for flex. I said 515 is too low for flex because it honestly is with pug groups.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Grats on missing the point. I was mocking your attitude because you think a 540-550 alt is under geared in flex. It drops 540 for Gods sake.
    the thing is 540 itlv atm isnt the same 540 itlv as it was at the begining of tier - at begining of tier alts which were at 540 were those who were at least partially clearing normal tot and had legendary cloaks - atm 540 itlv can be alt with ultra shitty gear with boosted itlv just from ordos/celestials/crafting but without meta gem and cloak which is huge difference in performance and usually alts which are being geared up atm are those which were least played therefore people play them like shit.

    there are exeptions ofc there are but people who organize good pugs not those which disband after half group dies on swirl on immerseus wont risk to get those expetions only will play it safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by healzforu View Post
    I realize what your point is but using a 575 for a normal soo is a bit lol. I won't step foot in a normal run on my 578 main, but i know what you were trying to do there lol
    there's 1 person on my server who on late tuesday evenings organizes few garosh normal only pugs with 572-575 req - those runs are very fast filled up cause they conssit mainly of people from different hc guilds who just stoped farming garosh to do few extra pull on progress bosses. and theres a ton of people willing to join them always so nobody is loling
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2014-04-21 at 09:04 AM.

  13. #53
    Thanks to everyone who has given me advice on getting my ilvl up so I can actually do some fun stuff!

    The people criticising me who think I expect to get a group just because of my experience; no, I am not expecting a group just from experience. I didn't want to be one of the guys who says I do really well despite my ilvl, but I will say it now that others have. I do see myself out-dpsing people with much better gear than me; whether thats because they aren't trying since the content we're in isn't exactly that hard, whatever, but I would say I am good player. But my ilvl is evidently too low to do normal Garrosh, I was just saying I want to be able to kill him, but that's going to be an issue when I can't even get in to flex as the requirements set by some are absurd. I am currently getting my ilvl up for flex, to then run flex to move on to normal; not expecting to jump straight into normal at this ilvl! And as I said, mock me all you want and say "go raise your ilvl it sucks", but I have just resubbed 2 weeks ago after a break since last August, when this ilvl was more normal then haha.

    The experience comment is just something I can say to a raid leader and explain that I am competent in 25 man raids. Sure, I don't know the tactics as well as some other people with a higher ilvl, but it is quite hilarious in LFR when you see someone who is full LFR gear / the occasional bit of flex gear and they are pants on head silly and still can't move out of the fire :P ilvl may bump up that DPS / HPS but it certainly doesn't resemble skill amongst all players.

    I think one of my key issues I need to solve is my realm choice; I play on EU-Arathor. Vanilla through to WotLK it was always rammed, BC and WotLK I could never be around in Shatt / Dala due to the insane lag. Cata the server start to die, and from when I last logged off last August to logging in a couple of weeks ago, there is one Horde raiding guild, the others either merged and disbanded due to the merger not working or just disbanded haha. It's a shame really, there isn't even trade spam, I cannot find jewelcrafters, no one PuGs anything, I rely on openraid etc.

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  14. #54
    If you want to game the system, do what I do. Queue on my highest level guy, get invited, explain I'd rather go on my alt, I have x/14 heroic XP, I have the achievements, I know the fights inside and out, I know my alt's class and role inside and out, and have a recount log ready of you topping the meters in something like iron juggernaut or malakras (single target fights) on your alt. If they want to be dickweeds about it, they'll kick you out of the group. But if they value skill > gear, which in my experience make up for 15-25 ilvls, they'll accept you. I brought my 538 windwalker to a 555 minimum flex group with no legendary items. I still ranked #1 to #3 and pulled my weight compared to the derps that don't know their class with legendaries.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    In this thread:
    Tons of people who are gods gift to pugging, all capable of beating 95% of their peers with better item levels, and even legendary cloaks on their alts.
    Meanwhile they don't seem to realise that exactly BECAUSE they can do this, people have to be extremely picky about gear levels and experience. If you're beating 9 out of 10 people with better gear than you already, do you expect that number to go down if you take people with less gear?



    Did your low level healers happen to be disc priest/shaman, and did the high level healer you beat happen to be a monk? Because there's a reason for you being top HPS if so :3.
    Also, HPS=/=skill. Anyone can keep pressing their aoe heal, actually being able to pump out numbers when it matters is something entirely different (EG keeping the raid sustained is easy, but if you've got two 520 ilvl healers on Garrosh, they're going to be in for a bad time when he starts whirling or you go into the intermission, no matter your supposed "skill").
    This this this. I cant believe the amount of people that have 530 ilvl alts that can beat 570 ilvl heroic raiders. That is so ridiculous. First the so called "skill cap" in this game compared to other competitive games is very low. A monkey with 570 ilvl will do more damage then a guy from paragon with 530 ilvl on an easy class like rogue or shaman. Second; almost everything you see in an lfr setting regarding numbers, tactics or so called skill is IRRELEVANT.

    And the guy that destroys most healers with his 540 alt. HPS in a flex or normal content is so silly to compare. THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAL. So yeah I'll just roll a disc priest get it to 540 ilvl and I will destroy meters in flex, normal content. I must have so much skill. Good healer knows the fight, knows when the boss is gonna hit hard, knows when to heal what. Good healer doesn't just blanket the raid in aoe/smart heals on a 3 minute fight.

  16. #56
    IF they know your experience and still don't want you they're probably morons and you're better off not in their group.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Flex groups arent a good representitive of the 'raiding community'.
    Also 7/14 hc doesnt really mean anything this far into the tier.
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  18. #58
    Quick question; how do you guys run the celestials? Guild groups? PuGs from server? Do you use openraid? I want to run them obviously but horde side there is never more than 15 people on the timeless isle at any point, no pugs, and I can never seem to find a group on openraid.
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  19. #59
    This has already been the case. Even in BC or WOTLK you would have people forming for H-Dungeons(5man) and they would be demanding outrageous ilvls. Then usually if you inspect the leader you see he does not meet his own requirements, but has just taken the initiative to form the raid.

    If the ilvl requirements are reasonable, like 535 ilvl for flex, then I don't have a problem with a group ensuring they will not fail due to low dps or low heals. It is amazing how many ppl claim their main is full heroic blah blah blah, unless you make them log over for inspection then you have to take their current toon at face value.

    If they are requiring you to be heroic raid geared for flex, then that is BS and they will probably be LFM 2 hours from now.

    Spend an hour researching all the fights, find a vent channel you can use (there are a number of public use ones), and then form your own raid under your own rules.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It fills me with such joy what people have turned into. I'm 7/14 heroic, trying to find Flex groups for my alt. I get turned down by everyone cause my alts ilvl is 532. No one cares about experience anymore.

    I have seen some lame excuses too. Like "Just because you can raid heroics on one character doesn't mean you know how to play another that well".

    Yes I'm ranting. Cause I have been trying to find raid groups for my alt for weeks now and turned down cause everyone wants 550+ ilvl + Leg Cloak for even Flex groups.
    Make your own group then and stop complaining. Or are you too lazy to put one together yourself and would rather someone else do it and you can just tag along?

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