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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Healers: How good or bad does your class have it in WoD?

    TL;DR short version:
    Let's have a (friendly) discussion about how you feel your class' healing situation looks for AoE & Spread Healing in WoD.



    Basically I made this thread because, as a Monk, I'm still frustrated by the lack of control inherent to the ReM+Uplift system (pretty happy with the spec in most other ways!). I would like to explore whether other healers have different, but ultimately equivalent, frustrations and concerns during AoE / spread.

    I am not doing this to fish for sympathy, I am doing this because I am actually curious to understand my situation relative to everyone else's and gain a better understanding of what other healing specs have to deal with, both in 5.4 and looking at their situation going into WoD.



    BASIC OVERVIEW
    How each class feels so far, for quick context. Yes, I know it's Alpha! But many of these issues continue from MoP, and we can still compare mechanics. A lot of this may be inaccurate because I'm not familiar with every heal spec, so if you play one of these classes speak up and correct me!

    Druid
    Mostly unchanged so far. 5.4 = 6.0. Druids seem to be fairly happy. If so, yay Druids.

    Paladin
    Paladins seem messy, but I haven't kept up with Holy enough to be sure about anything going into WoD. If any Pallies would like to reply and explain your current issues, I will update this section.

    Priest (Holy)
    Despite early suggestions by @Ghostcrawler before he left Blizzard, Prayer of Healing seems to be remaining party-targeted in WoD. Unfortunately I know nothing about Holy Priests because the spec does not interest me. If any HPriests would like to reply and explain your current issues, I will update this section.

    Priest (Disc)
    Disc seems to be in awkward place going into WoD — absorbs are being scaled back, and fight mechanics are becoming less absorb-friendly (due to longer periods below full health and more actual dedicated healing required). Atonement has been crushed as a healing tool, and converted to a downtime DPS tool. I'm honestly not sure what Disc is supposed to be or do in WoD. If any Disc Priests would like to reply and explain your current issues, I will update this section.

    Shaman
    Many nerfs! Handle it! Shammies received brute-force buffs in 5.4 / SoO to compensate their flagging performance, as well as extreme improvements to their 'smart' or 'uncapped' heals to become even smarter and more uncapped. Those buffs are being reverted in WoD, and then more nerfs added on top of that.

    Additionally, the Shammy reliance on 'smart' heals being their key tool means the WoD 'dumb healing' changes will possibly impact Shammy more severely than others. Overall, Shaman's brief brute-force improvements to spread healing are crumbling, and they may be looking at a return to ToT conditions of "Tidal Waves GHW and pray".

    Monk
    Monks have been cut apart and reconstructed in WoD, losing their ability to Fistweave without an expensive stance swap. Thus, Monks will be stuck at range casting Soothing if they want to do 'real' healing. Chi gen has also been severely slowed down, meaning Uplift spam is not happening like it did in MoP.

    Nothing has been changed about the ReM + Uplift mechanic, but nerfs to Thunder Focus Tea mean that even fewer targets can be blanketed with ReM. Overall, this means that Monk AoE is frustrated more than ever by the issue that the targets you're AoEing now (via Uplift) were almost-uncontrollably decided 10-15 seconds ago.



    Anyway, trying to be objective here, we have the following tools/solutions for each spec (? marks if I'm unsure it should count for that category):

    STEADY DISTRIBUTABLE HEALS (potentially bolster spread or stack AoE if applied/ticking already)

    STACK HEALS (only effective when people are clumped up)

    SPREAD HEALS (effective even if everyone is spread out beyond stack radius)

    AoE / SPREAD HEALING COOLDOWNS

    (I am almost certainly forgetting or missing things because I only keep track of Monk stuff these days.
    I need your help to make sure no changes/nerfs/abilities/glyphs/etc. that are important to this discussion, are being missed.
    TY!)

    What I would like to do is get a more holistic understanding of what the healing situation looks like for WoD, and try to understand how each spec is currently looking. I just don't have the time atm to research each spec individually so I'd like to exit my Monk cocoon and get feedback from every healer about how they feel.

    SOME OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER
    • Smartheals no longer target most injured, instead they simply target anyone injured. They won't hit people at 100% health, but they will hit people at 90% health or 75% health, meaning RNG may cause those two people at 25% and 40% health to be 'missed' / 'ignored' during AoE.
    • As a result, you are expected to AoE some, then spotheal the people who get missed.
    • AoE damage is supposed to be reduced in WoD.
    • AoE damage is supposed to be slower in WoD.
    • People are supposed to be able to safely sit at 50-90% Health (rough arbitrary numbers) in WoD fight designs without those targets being in imminent risk of exploding next time the boss or adds cough/sneeze/etc.


    (Uplift section deleted because people were interpreting it as "QQ I'M A SAD MONK" instead of a contextual reference )
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-04-23 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #2
    I'll be honest: it sounds like you're fishing for examples of other classes having it better than MWs to make a "woe is me" case. Not to mention trying to consolidate all the healers to using x and y skills in z and a situations is amazingly simplified. Besides, your "understanding uplift" section is completely biased. You make it sound like ReM is garbage when it'll still be used on CD because it's one of your best chi generators. It doesn't matter how terrible ReM will end up being, you'd still use it on CD because the chi generation is worth it by itself. You can't compare toolboxes 1:1. Yes, I think the ReM + uplift changes seem whack too, but I'd be wasting my time trying to draw large conclusions without any word from Blizzard this early on.

    That said, I wish I could still provide you with some information regarding how priests would do in each of your listed situations cause you seem to have good intentions behind this post, but I wouldn't be able to tell you without playing WoD myself. Normally, I'd tell you that atonement healing is how a disc priest would do "steady distributable heals" but since they're changing our "smart" healing is working, I can't tell you for certain. Same with stack heals. Divine star is currently god mode for stack healing, but without knowing whether or not there's gonna be an AoE cap in WoD, I can't say how it'll look. Not to mention how absorb healing is being supposedly nerfed in WoD. Disc priests in its current incarnation is all about getting massive DAs on everyone during periods of low damage (and SoO is all about long periods of low damage followed by short periods of insane burst [see: empowered whirling corruption]). In WoD, this sort of play style should be going away.

    Frankly, any information you'd gather from anyone's posts would have to be amazingly simplified and would never paint the whole picture, leading to potentially bad conclusions. Not to be a jerk about it, but if you really want the entire picture, you're gonna have to wait for either more datamined info (which is already a bad idea to draw conclusions from) or for more word from Blizzard.
    Last edited by wombats23; 2014-04-22 at 04:54 AM.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    I'll be honest: it sounds like you're fishing for examples of other classes having it better than MWs to make a "woe is me" case.
    No I'm not. I'm looking to understand how everyone works and put it in context, because I haven't paid attention to other healers for months. It's the absolute opposite: I'm trying to take the devil's advocate stance that MW's don't have it as bad as it seems, and then find out if that's true. Please don't put text in my fingers.

    With ReM, what you have to understand is that no one is arguing whether ReM will be used on CD. But ReM used on CD doesn't change that Uplift is arbitrary and uncontrollable, since ReM on CD can never cover everyone who's injured, nor can you really predict up to 18s early who's going to need Uplift, and even if you can, 2/3 of each ReM cast go to random people, meaning 2/3 of each Uplift also go to people you really had no input about selecting.

    So the focus isn't on whether ReM is good or not, it's whether the lack of control on Uplift is crippling to Mistweaver vs. the systems in place for other healers, or if this is balanced out by issues that other healers suffer (which perhaps, Monks do not).

    Frankly, any information you'd gather from anyone's posts would have to be amazingly simplified and would never paint the whole picture, leading to potentially bad conclusions. Not to be a jerk about it, but if you really want the entire picture, you're gonna have to wait for either more datamined info (which is already a bad idea to draw conclusions from) or for more word from Blizzard.
    I'm not pretending this is a precision data gathering session. Instead, it's an open forum where many different perspectives can come together and try to understand the overall playing field better, rather than blindly assuming things about the other 5 specs which may be skewed or exaggerated.

    Ultimately, classes have no way of understanding each other but to compare toolboxes. It doesn't matter how imperfect the comparison is, simply having a working awareness of what other specs actually have to deal with can be enlightening, since it's easy to get a very distorted impression when you're immersed in 1 class most of the time.

    That everything is unfinished/untuned is true, but we're still debating about it in each individual class forum, since it's always better to pounce on balance issues earlier, rather than later. I'm still interested in how each individual class views their current state to give a starting reference for how WoD's field is shaping up.

    Plus, simply correcting some major misunderstandings and incorrect assumptions that healers make about each other is already progress. For example, I was surprised to learn about many of the Shaman nerfs/changes (HST, etc), and reminded about how awkward HPally is when dealing with targets all over the place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    Normally, I'd tell you that atonement healing is how a disc priest would do "steady distributable heals" but since they're changing our "smart" healing is working, I can't tell you for certain.
    So as Disc you would actually be Atoning during AoE? Please understand, none of my questions are rhetorical — I'm trying to learn and keep up with what everyone's doing to give an overall context.

    The point of the 'Steady' section is that hypothetically, classes without fully-realized spread toolboxes may be compensated by having the ability to distribute more preemptive healing (hots or bubbles), thus padding out their weaker direct AoE once random or raidewide damage starts coming in. I'm completely comfortable being corrected if this is a distorted assumption.

  4. #4
    Well I always hated the fact that my class (holy paladin) is severely gimped in not stacked fights to I love being able to single target heal and be effective.

  5. #5
    Holy paladin looks wtf right now with everything having a cast time. Disc priest also looks like it's getting nerfed again...shaman and monk look like they're in the middle. Holy priest and druid look like they'll be strong next expansion, especially druids with the return of more of a bc-style healing model.

    Just a SUPER broad overview of my impressions of the alpha notes, I'm sure a lot will change from now until expansion release.

  6. #6
    You'd be better off consulting the individual class forums then. I'd also recommend asking guild mates versed in healing with their respective classes. Seriously, take a look at this forum. You have to go back 6 pages before you don't even see mention of the name "Garrosh". This forum is mostly people asking for help for their raid team or asking things that would be solved with the search function.

    And you don't understand other classes by comparing toolkits, you understand them by seeing how their individual tools work with their other tools. Having both a 576 priest and a 567 druid, I'd be foolish to compare how 90% of my healing as a priest comes from DPSing to how 90% of my healing as a druid comes from rejuv blanketing (both are gross exaggerations but carry truth). The closest thing to a fair comparison would be EF blanketing from a pally with rejuv blanketing. And even then, rejuv is a move with only a mana cost where EF costs HoPo and even places and absorb on people.



    That said, to help your quest as devil's advocate: There is a pretty good comparison I'd say between priest healing and MW if you look at one of their level 100 healing talents: http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=152117
    Prayer of Mending is basically our version of ReM in the sense that it jumps among players randomly and this talent (with the new "smart" healing) will be just as random as ReM. Luckily priests don't need to cast any follow up move to do an actual AoE heal. Then again, party + range restrictions of PoH is a pain in and of itself.
    In addition, if atonement is still disc's filler in WoD, I could see that being a huge blow. Imagine spending every global atonement healing and having 2/3rds of those globals heal someone that's at 90% hp as opposed to someone at 50%.
    For more reading on WoD healing priests, I'd encourage you to look at http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5723

    I'd also argue it's tough to say how bad ReM + Uplift will be without seeing how damage is gonna happen in WoD. MW still have a huge advantage with uplift being instant (unless this is changed in WoD, in which case I apologize). As a priest, I'd have to time my PoH to land right as damage happens to beat you to the punch. In addition, take a look at raid damage right now. In most cases, it indiscriminately targets everyone (empowered electromagnet, galakras, fallen ash, empowered whirling etc.) If damage is to continue like that, it doesn't matter how random ReM is because your uplift will still provide full healing.
    Maybe if WoD has more raid scenarios where you'd assign specific people to take damage (total annihilation from elegon comes to mind), then I could see the complete randomness of ReM being an enormous issue. Still, even then it's tough to say how big of an issue that is since triage healing is supposed to be less important.
    Last edited by wombats23; 2014-04-22 at 06:06 AM.

  7. #7
    They are changing stuff almost daily. We also have no idea how stuff "feels" because we can't try them out in game. We have no idea of the tuning either because of this.

    Loosely speaking they want to reduce instants, make mana count and make smart decision making trump "I win" buttons. Until we see it in action its all conjecture.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    You'd be better off consulting the individual class forums then.
    But that's not useful because then you don't have a convergence of perspectives. Each class' 'home' environment will support that class in a biased way. That's completely understandable, but I'm trying to find a neutral ground where assumptions can be challenged and context can be gained.

    Also, it results in 5 (or 6) parallel discussions all talking past each other.

    Then again, party + range restrictions of PoH is a pain in and of itself.
    I vaguely remember — I think @Ghostcrawler? It was a long time ago — a blue Tweet about PoH's party restriction being abolished in WoD. Is that still true?

    Also, why is the range on PoH a pain? Isn't 30yds around target very generous?

    MW still have a huge advantage with uplift being instant (unless this is changed in WoD, in which case I apologize).
    1.5s cast in WoD.

    Chi generation also severely slowed down, however, that may be compensated by simply buffing Uplift's output (remains to be seen).

    In addition, take a look at raid damage right now. In most cases, it indiscriminately targets everyone (empowered electromagnet, galakras, fallen ash, empowered whirling etc.) If damage is to continue like that, it doesn't matter how random ReM is because your uplift will still provide full healing.
    This is one of the concerns. Devs want more spothealing and more people sitting at less than full health, but also less predictably, so you're encouraged to surgically heal and pay attention more rather than spamming AoEs.

    A Monk concern is that an environment like that will mean Uplift's current 'strength' — you can stupidly spam it and let other people fill in the blanks, since it will always do something to someone — will become much more glaring in the proposed WoD environment. But, I'm not sure that's unique to Monk, or to all healer's AoEs, because I don't understand other styles enough.

    Still, even then it's tough to say how big of an issue that is since triage healing is supposed to be less important.
    Do you mean more important? I'm under the impression the point of WoD is to get back to a healing environment where choosing targets smartly is more rewarding.

    For example, CHeal diminishing per jump and and causing 50% more healing to first target → now you care who you point it at, instead of 5.4 / SoO where you (supposedly — not a Shaman!!) just spam CHeal as fast as your finger can hit the button and let its no-dropoff smart healing fix everything.

    And TY — this kind of dialogue is exactly what I'm looking for. I want assumptions to be challenged.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Holy paladin looks wtf right now with everything having a cast time. Disc priest also looks like it's getting nerfed again...shaman and monk look like they're in the middle. Holy priest and druid look like they'll be strong next expansion, especially druids with the return of more of a bc-style healing model.

    Just a SUPER broad overview of my impressions of the alpha notes, I'm sure a lot will change from now until expansion release.
    That nerf was a long time coming. Dont act surprised.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    That nerf was a long time coming. Dont act surprised.
    Which class? Disc always scales well at the end of an expansion and then is nerfed back. It's just the nature of absorbs...I don't understand all of the changes to holy pally, seems like overkill per usual.

  11. #11
    Little input from Shaman's standpoint.

    First of all, Riptide. It has a cooldown, in contrast with Rejuv, which doesn't. You can remove the cooldown via a glyph, at the cost of 75% of the initial heal (used to be an hps loss in most scenarios). Either way, i certainly would NOT put it in one bag with the likes of PW:S, Rejuv, EF or RM. It is just much weaker.

    Next, onto the main problem in your comparison: Chainheal. You put it both in "spread" and "stacked" toolkits. Which is it? Because if you're under impression it's a superuniversal tool for any occasion, you're very much mistaken:|

    You never "spammed it as fast as buttons let you". You always had to pick targets, because of the interaction with Riptide (it flat buffs the chainheal by 25% iirc). It was also never our main spell, more of a filler, all of those had a higher prio: HR, HST, Riptide on cd, Earthshield recast (past 5.4 with 2p t16). Prior to 5.4, with the healing dropping off with each consecutive jump, the spell would usually yield barely more healing than a single target heal, unless the raid was 100% stacked, that's how crappy it was.

    Then came the range problem. On vast majority of fights, the heal would not chain beyond the first target unless you glyphed it. Sure, the glyph doesnt put a cd on Chainheal anymore (and it used to ><), but we actually have to glyph for it to be even considered in a non-100%-stacked scenarios.

    Now, short explanation of "High Tide" talent. It has been confirmed by Celestalon on twitter that the cap of Riptided targets it will additionally jump to is 3. So "all targets" means "3 targets". You have to also bear in mind Blizzard's design philosophy of not allowing one talent to be vastly superior to others (unless they are all crap, then it's fine). Atm High Tide, on paper, is worth MULTITUDES of what the other 2 talents bring to the table. Hint: it's going to get nerfed, because design philosophy.

    To put it in perspective, so you really, really realise how utterly bad shaman spread healing is/was: ToT, with all the high movement/spread fights, we were down to 3 rotational spells: Healing Stream Totem (now 50% nerfed), Riptide and SINGLE TARGET HEALS. "WoD model is going to be more tbc-like healing" i heared. Whelp, that's how it already was for us, boys, for a good, long while.

    I understand the "grass is greener" mentality. I dont deny monk's toolkit is lacking in several areas, that's what personally put me off the class. But i do havesome experience with 90 lvl of every healing spec and i can, without a shadow of a doubt, say - spreadhealing isn't as disastrous for you as it is for others (esp. shamans). Just think about it: the major "high spread, high movement" raidtiers in the past are historically the ones where shamans perform the worst (Firelands, ToT). Sometimes as bad as below 50% of the average expected hps.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    Luckily priests don't need to cast any follow up move to do an actual AoE heal.
    Lol. You can say that again. Mistweaver here, but I mained Disc Priest through Cata, and I can say I loved party target way more than the Renewing Mist-Uplift tie. If I had to put it in perspective, I would say it's like if the party that your Prayer of Healing healed got picked FOR you. And stayed there for several seconds, like up to 20 seconds. Everyone in that party full health? Too bad; use single-target. Except our single-target in 5.4 is not great in general compared to how Disc's was in Cata. Though PWS is nerfed now (mana cost increase), I'd say that's probably still true. Just look at how much Atonement they do :P Of course, Atonement is getting nerfed, and Soothing Mist is probably getting buffed, so we'll have to wait to see the case there.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2014-04-22 at 07:06 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranjit View Post
    Now, short explanation of "High Tide" talent. It has been confirmed by Celestalon on twitter that the cap of Riptided targets it will additionally jump to is 3. So "all targets" means "3 targets". You have to also bear in mind Blizzard's design philosophy of not allowing one talent to be vastly superior to others (unless they are all crap, then it's fine). Atm High Tide, on paper, is worth MULTITUDES of what the other 2 talents bring to the table. Hint: it's going to get nerfed, because design philosophy.
    They are okay with primal elementalist being the only real choice for resto, so maybe high tide won't be gutted.

  14. #14
    Technically yes, but all tier 90 talents bring very little sheer throughput, so it wasn't an issue. High Tide doubles Chainheal's healing. It might not stay in it's current form. They also never agreed PE is the only choice, they insisted UF is viable, too

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post

    Do you mean more important? I'm under the impression the point of WoD is to get back to a healing environment where choosing targets smartly is more rewarding.

    For example, CHeal diminishing per jump and and causing 50% more healing to first target → now you care who you point it at, instead of 5.4 / SoO where you (supposedly — not a Shaman!!) just spam CHeal as fast as your finger can hit the button and let its no-dropoff smart healing fix everything.

    And TY — this kind of dialogue is exactly what I'm looking for. I want assumptions to be challenged.
    Sorry, yes you are correct. My mind always reverses the meaning of triage healing for whatever reason.

    Also, why is the range on PoH a pain? Isn't 30yds around target very generous?
    It's very noticeable on 10 man if your groups on spread fights (paragons, immerseus, tortos, dark animus, to name a few). Still noticeable in 25 mans if everyone is not clumped together, even on fights with small areas like megaera (always one person running back 'cause of ice beam). While you're certainly able to work around it with smart groupings of raiders, it can still be a hindrance. If one group has a dead member, I already feel less inclined to heal that group because I know for sure I'm only getting 80% of the max benefit no matter how well the group is positioned.

    It'd be cool if someone could link some confirmation about the removal of party requirement but I've personally never seen one myself.

    A Monk concern is that an environment like that will mean Uplift's current 'strength' — you can stupidly spam it and let other people fill in the blanks, since it will always do something to someone — will become much more glaring in the proposed WoD environment. But, I'm not sure that's unique to Monk, or to all healer's AoEs, because I don't understand other styles enough.
    See, there's not enough information on this proposed environment. That's why I think speculation at this point is worthless. Yes, you can draw some conclusions that might still apply if you make them broad enough, but then are those conclusions really that useful? In any case, I really have nothing productive left to say on the subject so good luck with your search for information I guess.

  16. #16
    From HPala PvP point of view, I'm hoping for insta-cast WoG/EF.

    But then again, much depends on beta performance. From current standpoint it might seem logical, but prove to be OP considering all other class changes. Waiting for a few beta iterations before making my judgement.

    EDIT: realized this thread is in raids & dungeons so my comment is off-topic.

  17. #17
    So what MWs are complaining about what exactly? ReM is going to be potent with the TFT change, you still have Chi Torpedo, RJW, and those ridiculous level 30 talents that are instant free AoE heals that cost you no mana or Chi (which you didn't put up on your list). Surging Mist is going to be useful again. You can detonate your healing spheres every 15 seconds for more AoE healing. Your level 100 talents are looking close to OP if they hold up. You're getting another Kung Fu stance that allows you to perform DPS while healing. You still got Mana Tea. You still got Chi Brew....

    Am I missing something?

    WTF are you guys complaining about? You're looking pretty freaking awesome IMO.
    Last edited by Kiradyn; 2014-04-22 at 11:03 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    So what MWs are complaining about what exactly? ReM is going to be potent with the TFT change, you still have Chi Torpedo, RJW, and those ridiculous level 30 talents that are instant free AoE heals that cost you no mana or Chi (which you didn't put up on your list). Surging Mist is going to be useful again. You can detonate your healing spheres every 15 seconds for more AoE healing. Your level 100 talents are looking close to OP if they hold up. You're getting another Kung Fu stance that allows you to perform DPS while healing. You still got Mana Tea. You still got Chi Brew....

    Am I missing something?

    WTF are you guys complaining about? You're looking pretty freaking awesome IMO.
    TFT is nerfed not buffed. the only thing it will helps is when you can get MC'd from garrosh, else it's a nerf.
    Chi Torpedo is still shit since its DR was nerfed, it heals for wet noodles, and it's so impratical noone has used it since SoO was released.
    RJW heals for less than SCK and costs the same mana, i.e. no reason to use it at all when mana matters, which it does in WoD.
    Lvl 30 talents, you mean Chi Wave? Because the others suck so much, manly Zen Sphere that is super useless. And Chi Burst is not istant and requires to be behind all your targets and has a too long cooldown.

    "SURGING MIST IS BETTER NOW" This argument holds no water because it's still expansive as fuck, and you can't be suggesting me to use Flash Heal so then I can use Prayer of Healing.
    "Your level 100 talents are looking close to OP if they hold up." As every other healers, we have Chi Explosion that it's op as fuck, and you know what it means, nerfbat.
    Crane stance has nothing to do with heals, it's a niche, it will not be used when you need to heal.
    "You still got Mana Tea", it's not a good thing, while your druid will be spamming Rejuv, genesis and keeping efflorescence while not ooming, we have to spend 40% of a fight channelling a stupid mana mechaninc, the only healer with downtime in the entire game.
    Last edited by masteryuri; 2014-04-22 at 11:24 AM.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    So what MWs are complaining about what exactly? ReM is going to be potent with the TFT change, you still have Chi Torpedo, RJW, and those ridiculous level 30 talents that are instant free AoE heals that cost you no mana or Chi (which you didn't put up on your list). Surging Mist is going to be useful again. You can detonate your healing spheres every 15 seconds for more AoE healing. Your level 100 talents are looking close to OP if they hold up. You're getting another Kung Fu stance that allows you to perform DPS while healing. You still got Mana Tea. You still got Chi Brew....

    Am I missing something?

    WTF are you guys complaining about? You're looking pretty freaking awesome IMO.
    Er, really?

    TFT change was a huge nerf. Two-stance gameplay is annoying, personally, and a nerf. Soothing Mist and Crackling Jade Lightning not generating Chi at all is a huge nerf. Roll is now faster, but Uplift now has a cast time, so probably a mobility nerf. Healing Sphere removal, while appreciated by most, was a huge nerf (many players were asking for its removal, with compensation). 1.5s GCD is a huge nerf.

    Basically we have a bunch of big nerfs and no word on what's getting buffed healing-wise to keep us up to par except a nebulous promise that Surging Mist will be improved in some way (not enough). Are they buffing Soothing Mist? Enveloping Mist? Renewing Mist? Uplift? All of those? None of those? We have no healing numbers to work off of, so there's some degree of panic.

    More importantly, people don't like the direction they're taking it. No one really wants to stance dance, it seems, and it looks like swapping to DPS stance will be a horrible idea anyway because you can't cast Renewing Mist in the DPS stance. Further, swapping stances costs a GCD and all your stored Chi. Naturally, people don't like the 1.5s GCD because it will make the spec feel sluggish. We expected that they would make Haste valuable to us, but not by forcing a long GCD on us. People don't like that the range of Eminence is still only 20 yards. People don't like that Uplift is still tied to Renewing Mist, thus still being the only healer whose AoE has a reasonably high chance to do 100% (or otherwise cripplingly high) overhealing with 6 injured raid members, whereas everyone else does 0%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, I'd say the problem with a thread like this is that most good and knowledgeable healers will never see it.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2014-04-22 at 11:31 AM.

  20. #20
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Which class? Disc always scales well at the end of an expansion and then is nerfed back. It's just the nature of absorbs...I don't understand all of the changes to holy pally, seems like overkill per usual.
    Disc has been a mile above everyone else for 2 raid tiers this expansion, that isn't "end of expansion".
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

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