1. #1

    25H Fallen Protectors - How many healers?

    Started on this fight last night after downing H-Immerseus after 3 tries. Big jump in difficulty. The fight itself isn't logistically hard but we were having serious trouble healing during certain parts, particularly Sun's Desperate Measures.

    My question is, how many healers do most 25-man groups run? We were doing 5, but a few of our healers are undergeared (540-ish ilvl). We had a DPS switch to heals for our last attempt of the night and got much further. I'm just wondering if we're going to hit enrage with 6.

  2. #2
    We do it with 4-5 healers. If you are undergeared, then 6 will work. Also, i dont see why you are having issues with Sun's Desperate measures. That is a stack up and heal part. You are making sure to keep rook outside of the bubble so he doesnt karate spin kick the whole raid right?

  3. #3
    Dispell all or not it depends on the Healers but 540 Gs healers are enough du heal this with 5. Use Raid CDs for Suns Phases like Aura Mastery or Shout.

  4. #4
    if you have any dps shamans, and you're struggling in desperate measures just have them blow CD's and ancestral guidance i can usually do about 500k hps for 10 seconds. if i dropped healing tide as well i could solo heal a 25man group for those 10 seconds. have healers just afk.

  5. #5
    I would go 6 considering your def. undergeared at 540+. We do 5 and could probably even go 4 if we wanted to, but were also all 570+ but yea go 6 and you should be just fine.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Bits of advice I can offer since there's a fair amount of underlying problems that can make the fight unnecessarily hard.

    The longer the bosses are up, the harder they are to deal with (Sun dealing increasing Calamity damage for example). Rooks is by far the easiest to deal with (his kegs) and He's is the hardest. Because of this, you will want to kill them He > Sun > Rook (the opposite order of normal). Doing this means you get rid of the garrotte debuffs on the raid early on and always before Suns phase. Having a billion garrotte debuffs up during Suns phase will be pretty brutal.

    Make sure that when He has the buff "Noxious Poison", he is kited away from the middle. Every time he attacks with this debuff he drops pools of poison on the floor. Not a big deal right? Well if you don't keep moving him out with the poison, and everyone was to say... stack in the middle during Suns phase, yeah, every ones going to get smashed.

    Garrotte can be BoP'd off. Get paladins to get clemency and rotate BoP's to lower garrotte damage.

    Sha Sear isn't worth interrupting, the person that gets targeted by it should move away from the raid whilst it's being channelled (at least for progress).

    Use Heroism when you need it most (Suns second phase or something), not at the start of the fight.


    All I can think of for now :P

  7. #7
    Oh and forgot to mention we're doing Rook/Sun/He for order. Personally I think this is why we're having healing issues due to almost everyone in the raid having Garrote ticking during Sun's phase. But that's just me.

    Edit: Just saw poster above me and confirmed what I was saying. I think having Garrote going into bubble phase is really hurting us, so I'm going to suggest a different order.
    Last edited by Farabee; 2014-04-23 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    Oh and forgot to mention we're doing Rook/Sun/He for order. Personally I think this is why we're having healing issues due to almost everyone in the raid having Garrote ticking during Sun's phase. But that's just me.
    There you go! Read above :P

    Protectors is a really easy fight if you have the basics down.

    Obviously cleave them down (as if this needed the be said).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    Oh and forgot to mention we're doing Rook/Sun/He for order. Personally I think this is why we're having healing issues due to almost everyone in the raid having Garrote ticking during Sun's phase. But that's just me.

    Edit: Just saw poster above me and confirmed what I was saying. I think having Garrote going into bubble phase is really hurting us, so I'm going to suggest a different order.
    If you burn He first, then you'll have a lot of garrotes up at the end with no reprieve. He's desperate measures is the chill time for healers to regen, so if you're causing it early on you won't get the full benefit of that. That's the idea behind bringing him down last or the same time as Sun.

    The real key, however, is to efficiently spread dps and cleave. It isn't necessary to burn 1 guy at the start super fast, then switch to the next guy, etc. Regardless of which one you choose, none of their abilities are threatening at the start. Multidotting and keeping them together for cleave helps cycle through their measures faster, which in turn resets the danger of their abilities.

  10. #10
    25 man pug I go with uses 6, but the group is mostly alts of 10-14/14H raiders. 6 is probably the best number when starting out progression.

    If your DPS is on target and you're still having trouble with healing I don't see the issue with going as high as 7 until your lesser geared healers catch up.

  11. #11
    Push He/Sun @ the same time: it clears the Garrote debuff for you, which seems to be an issue.

  12. #12
    I would suggest trying to push Sun and He to desperate measures at the same time. This both clears the garrotes as well as clears any poison that may be on the ground in the middle.

    We do Rook first then Sun/He using 6 healers and it works pretty well for us.

  13. #13
    Our very first kill way back when we 7 healed. We 2 shot immerseus, then did about 2 hours of attempts 6 healing. We switched to 7 healing and killed it within 3 attempts. We 4 heal it now, but don't listen to anyone saying you shouldn't need to use a lot of healers, if you are having trouble using 5/6, and can still make the enrage if you lost a dps, then add a healer.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    Oh and forgot to mention we're doing Rook/Sun/He for order. Personally I think this is why we're having healing issues due to almost everyone in the raid having Garrote ticking during Sun's phase. But that's just me.

    Edit: Just saw poster above me and confirmed what I was saying. I think having Garrote going into bubble phase is really hurting us, so I'm going to suggest a different order.

    You should be aiming for Sun and He's DMs to go off at the same or close to it so you don't have to worry about either during that time.

    Having Sun Searing or Calamity during He's DM is a recipe for disaster, and as you noticed having He's Garrote ticking, and poison spawning under you when you're stacked in the middle is even worse.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

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