Active Regeneration

[emni]

Totally correct! However, if we don't make our voices heard in one way or another there is the chance that bad design won't be picked up on. The feedback over Chakra has finally been heard so maybe people can start questioning just what Blizzard is trying to do with Discipline.

Yeah, the problem with this is that WoW community seems to have an insane "revenge" mentality. If a spec is overpowered for any amounts of time, people start calling not only for nerfs, but they want the spec to be punished by being borderline useless. The official forums are especially riddled with petty revenge posts like that, just have a look (a quick example I found, didn't have to search very long):

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4610?page=3#57

"Majority of the things you complained about were general healer nerfs... Not sure why you feel Disc is getting much worse treatment then everyone else. Plus with their current state they deserve a lot more nerfs then others."

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...64610?page=1#2

"DIsc priests are just as insanely OP as Restro druids. I am glad, I hope your spec is destroyed."

[Deleted]

And finally, what good is being able to heal for the remaining 7 seconds if the damage is so low as to allow regeneration?.

I think you forget about the changes coming to healing overall. The Raid wont be topped most of the time (if they get it done like they want it to be) so there will always be someone to top in these 7 seconds.
I think it will all be about the encounter design. Should there really be times where all healers can regenerate 10 seconds without having to heal Disci will probably be in a bad spot but i don't think this will happen because they always design encounter around the utilities of the players.

In my opinion disci regen is the most flexible. The strength of it is that you can always use it when the dmg isn't at its peak even when the dmg is medium where it is hard for the other classes to use it, the weakness is that you wont get as much as the other when the dmg is extremly low

another good point for the disci manareg is: as you don't have that high downtimes for manaregen as other healers do you allow the others to use their manareggen because someone needs to heal even in low-dmg situations. Effective healing is all about teamwork not only about the own throughput.

[Instructor Soki]

The ability to control mana regen is a powerful tool, but forcing chain Smites during idle isn't the way to do it.

They should use a charge based system. Every X seconds (accelerated by haste) the Priest generates 1 stack which enables the mana regen component of Smite.

This way, Chastise is only up to regen mana. Sanctuary/Serenity should be up all other times, idle or otherwise.

They should just reintroduce the 5 second rule.
http://wowpedia.org/Five_second_rule

[Deleted]

Monks get to fire and forget

Didn't know a 4 sec channel was fire and forget.

[PosPosPos]

-Load of vague insinuations and pointless posturing-

For one - I didn't say Solace and Mindbender can be used together. Perhaps you might want to take off your tinfoil hat if you are truly interested in a serious discussion.

That aside, it is incredibly disingenuous to say Holy and Disc Priests are completely balanced on the mana side(they are not, but it is perfectly fine since different healer specializations have different mana efficiencies, as long as the disparity isn't huge it is simply normal variation).

You have similar mana regen with Mindbender/Solace, have Penance to regen mana, yet all your spell costs are ridiculously low for the amount it heals(or shields).

Someone should really do all of you naysayers/conspiracy theorists a favour and calculate how ridiculously high your HPM is across the board.

- - - Updated - - -

b) Damage is moderate so you "rotate" healers - Discipline, due to being unable to regenerate mana for as long will contribute more healing here. Which means to stop Discipline appearing too far ahead on the meters (apparently a concern) they need to do less healing at other times.

Notice how the classes with "poor" AMR have exceedingly cheap spells to fall back on when they want to conserve mana(not like priests have poor AMR to begin with).

Disc Priests get to hit defensive Penance(which costs next to no mana) and Clarity of Will(may as well be called a free power word: shield). Holy Priests get to spam renew and PoM. All the while regenerating ~7.5% total mana per minute without considering other regen sources such as offensive penance and red chakra.

And if you really think 7.5% total mana per second with a single GCD/8.5% total mana solace with 50% extra scaling "atonement" buff compared to live is weak, you really need to get your head out of the sand and actually look at how cheap your spells are compared to other classes.

Or actually start playing the class instead of talking about something you have little knowledge of.

[Deleted]

I think it will all be about the encounter design

Yes, definitely. It will be interesting to see what happens.

In my opinion disci regen is the most flexible. The strength of it is that you can always use it when the dmg isn't at its peak even when the dmg is medium where it is hard for the other classes to use it, the weakness is that you wont get as much as the other when the dmg is extremly low

Hmm. I'm not sure. The Discipline regeneration numbers seem closer to a Shaman's. Discipline channels for 2.0 seconds and receives 1.2% mana while a shaman casts a Lighting Bolt over 2.5 seconds for 1.25% mana. The difference is that the Shaman doesn't lock themselves out from casting a powerful direct heal and can regenerate more than that 1.25% mana in a 9 second window while Discipline cannot in the current build. This might all change of course!

For one - I didn't say Solace and Mindbender can be used together. Perhaps you might want to take off your tinfoil hat if you are truly interested in a serious discussion.

Then I'm sorry. I took this quote;

"You can't have low base costs on your spells(and Mindbender + Solace)"

To mean Mindbender and Solace due to the use of "+" and not "/".

That aside, it is incredibly disingenuous to say Holy and Disc Priests are completely balanced on the mana side(they are not, but it is perfectly fine since different healer specializations have different mana efficiencies, as long as the disparity isn't huge it is simply normal variation).

Yes, differences are fine. However, a fair number of spells that the two Priest specialisations will be using have the same mana cost - Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Heal, Prayer of Mending, Prayer of Healing and so on. These might be augmented by other abilities but to the extent that there is such a difference between 5% regeneration in 10 seconds and 5% regeneration over almost 38 seconds?

You have similar mana regen with Mindbender/Solace, have Penance to regen mana, yet all your spell costs are ridiculously low for the amount it heals(or shields).

Where are you getting this from? For the latest build of WoD Holy Nova costs less than Circle of Healing but that is also because the former heals for less and isn't a smart heal. If you are referring to the mana cost against other healers, the base healing spells cost the same i.e. Healing Touch in the latest build costs 6900 mana (using current mana pools) and Heal costs 6900 mana. Other spells have variable mana costs between classes but that is more to do with cooldowns and how the healing is applied.

If you think Priests aren't balanced with the considerations of their mana regeneration talents in mind then what is the point in having them? If a Priest didn't need to push Solace, use Mindbender or use FDCL, why would they be there?

Or actually start playing the class instead of talking about something you have little knowledge of.

Are you supposing that I don't play a priest with this statement, or a different class? Anyway, since I'm apparently wearing a tin foil hat and have no experience I guess we can't discuss this and to be honest, I don't really want to.

[Floopa]

for the active regen model pallies + disc priests have the best 1s, shamans and holy priests have "okay" 1s and druids/monks have the worst 1s.

the pally / disc 1 locks you out of healing gcd and you're forced to give up (potentially) your strongest heal to regen mana. Penance is strong defensively and 3 HP can produce a big EF/LoD/WoG.

TC/red chakra are okay because the cast times are short enough that you can get away with it. red chakra probably beats tc in terms of efficiency but red chakra locks you out of your stronger healing stances while TC doesnt

druids/mws have the worst 1s because you're -forced- to stop healing for a long time while doing nothing decent. CJL in healer stance deals close to 0 damage and thus having to channel for 4 sec makes the spell horrible to use. not to mention if you cancel at 3.5 sec you gain 0 mana while losing out on 3 healing gcds. druids likewise are forced into not casting a mana-cost heal for 6 seconds: they can get around this with dream of cenarius/clearcasting but it's a big trade

/shrug i'd rather be a disc priest/pally if we're gonna go forward with these models of active mana regen

[Deleted]

for the active regen model pallies + disc priests have the best 1s, shamans and holy priests have "okay" 1s and druids/monks have the worst 1s.

the pally / disc 1 locks you out of healing gcd and you're forced to give up (potentially) your strongest heal to regen mana. Penance is strong defensively and 3 HP can produce a big EF/LoD/WoG.

I would have agreed back when Penance returned 3.1% or so mana. At the moment with a 1.2% gain, it just isn't worth it.

The Druid and Monk ones do seem pretty harsh though the former might be incredibly good if it can be paired with Dream of Cenarius. Innervate will also be useful in periods of no healing moving which a more triage-like environment should hopefully allow. The Monk one is pretty mean; kind of like a less potent Potion of Concentration but with a harsher penalty for breaking early. Maybe Innervate would be easier to stomach if it was instant or a lower cast time.

Telluric Currents looks good - it is very similar to Discipline's but doesn't lock the healer out from a heal and can be used repeatedly. Chakra: Chastise is at least compensated by doing a higher amount of damage relative to the other mechanics.

Personally I liked the look of the 3.1% Penance regen the best though currently I'm swaying more towards Telluric Currents.

[Floopa]

penance no longer has a cost so the 1.2% = 3.6 over it's duration, with a 9 sec cd which means in 18 sec you get 7.2%. compared to pallies who in 18 sec (time to gen. 3 hp) get 7% mana.

thats why penance is strong

[Deleted]

Going by the latest build posted on the front page, Penance costs 1.8% of base mana and restores 1% per damage tick. If it were to be totally free to cast then, yes, it would be very strong (and more in line with the original numbers).

[Floopa]

i should've added "in a future build"

[Deleted]

i should've added "in a future build"

If that is the case then, cool! I imagine that will only be for the damaging component. It shouldn't be a free heal. 3% per offensive Penance seems fair.

[Adinora]

Yes, you do. If you don't, you are playing Holy Priest wrong in PvE/stuck in a raiding mode that is already slated to be dead in the upcoming expac(it's definitely fantastic in 10 mans, though).

I'm sorry but if that were true than I would see a lot more progression holy priests using it. Most are using FDCL.

And I'm not saying people don't use mindbender, I'm saying that not all holy priests use it.

[Raugnaut]

They should just reintroduce the 5 second rule.
http://wowpedia.org/Five_second_rule

5 second rule- you sit around and wand/do nothing for about 20 seconds. Priests could wand, druids had to melee/cat form, shamans meleed, ect. Was very very dull, do NOT want it back ever again.

This is basically a "5 seconds of damage" rule, except its closer to 10 seconds of damage.

[Deleted]

Hint: you are supposed to use active mana regen mechanics when the raid is taking little to no damage - which means it doesn't matter if you "lose your best healing spell" when you aren't in a situation to need it in the first place.

Again, less special snowflake syndrome, please.

WHY I WANT TO HEAL NOT DO DAMAge, fucking shit I dont like doing damge on my healer I like to fucking heal DUH, Id rather they gave us fucking dreamless potion back as a skill than fucking have to do damage DAMAGE ISNT FUN WHEN IM TRYING TO HEAL GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

[AlereanJr]

WHY I WANT TO HEAL NOT DO DAMAge, fucking shit I dont like doing damge on my healer I like to fucking heal DUH, Id rather they gave us fucking dreamless potion back as a skill than fucking have to do damage DAMAGE ISNT FUN WHEN IM TRYING TO HEAL GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

LOL pretty much sums up my thoughts...sort of.

[emni]

I don't think DPSing feels good on most healers either. It's good on disc since there's a healing component there, but holy? Not quite...

Here's an idea I posted in another thread. How about making effective healing with slow big heals restore mana? For example: the amount of HP you restore with Heal is restored to you as mana. Now, in order to actually have enough regen, people would be forced to spot heal without overhealing and use smart heals less.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

WHY I WANT TO HEAL NOT DO DAMAge, fucking shit I dont like doing damge on my healer I like to fucking heal DUH, Id rather they gave us fucking dreamless potion back as a skill than fucking have to do damage DAMAGE ISNT FUN WHEN IM TRYING TO HEAL GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

Its as retarded as lets say a rogue, "HEY TO GET YOUR ENERGY BACK YOU HAVE TO BANDAGE SOMETHING FOR 8 SECONDS DURR YOU HAVE TO HELP IF YOU WANT TO DPS!!!" FUCKING RETARDED, I fucking hate disc specc cause you are forced to do damage

[Deleted]

I don't think DPSing feels good on most healers either. It's good on disc since there's a healing component there, but holy? Not quite...

Here's an idea I posted in another thread. How about making effective healing with slow big heals restore mana? For example: the amount of HP you restore with Heal is restored to you as mana. Now, in order to actually have enough regen, people would be forced to spot heal without overhealing and use smart heals less.

Thoughts?

Oh, goodness. No! Can you imagine how bad the complaints will be regarding sniping healing then? What if you try and regen mana only for someone to come along and dump a great big Swiftmend on your target? I can imagine that style of healing leading to a lot of RNG based on what the other healers are doing and frustration. It would also be very difficult to try and coordinate in a group without voice com.

DPSing is a better mechanic for mana regeneration because there is much less competition for the resource, in this case enemy health pools.

[emni]

Oh, goodness. No! Can you imagine how bad the complaints will be regarding sniping healing then? What if you try and regen mana only for someone to come along and dump a great big Swiftmend on your target? I can imagine that style of healing leading to a lot of RNG based on what the other healers are doing and frustration. It would also be very difficult to try and coordinate in a group without voice com.

DPSing is a better mechanic for mana regeneration because there is much less competition for the resource, in this case enemy health pools.

Hmm that's a good point, but I feel like it wouldn't be a problem in the new healing model. Blizzard has said that they will increase health pools and weaken relative strength of heals, so we will have everyone always sit on low HP, which would mean that sniping wouldn't be that big of an issue as there would always be someone to heal.