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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Hello Druids, Shaman here. I just wanna say that as a Shaman, I really don't like Telluric Currents. By adding TC and mana regen mechanics for all healers it prob means they will be balanced around it. Healing can get pretty hectic, and I like having gaps every once in a while. It lets you reposition yourself, dispel, CC/kite or whatever. Adding an active mana regen mechanic like TC means every available gcd will be filled with LB which sucks, the spell has a slow cast and it just seems tedious and lame. It will also be impossible to utilize in PVP.

    I much prefer the traditional regen stuff like passives w/ procs based off crits or certain heal spells that give steady regen of mana plus a %mana CD when you really need a big boost. It works so why break it?


    But anyways, reason why I'm posting in the Druid forum is that while comparing each healers regen mechanic, I noticed something about the Druid one. At first look, it seems kinda lame as if you can't use heals for 4-8 seconds depending on if you want both ticks or not... but I realized that is not totally true.

    The Druid Innervate ticks until you use MANA on a heal spell, which means if you use a mana free heal or dps then you won't break innervate. Druids have a talent that lets them convert wrath damage into healing, so they can spam wrath for 8 sec while Innervate ticks. Even better though is Omen of Clarity, if you time your Innervate after OoC then you can get a free heal off and not break Innervate..... AND if you spec for the final tier talent Moment of Clarity, your OoC lasts 5 sec giving you mana free heals during that time. So that means you let OoC proc, pop Innervate, and you can get like 4-5 sec of free heals off then just switch to wrath spam until Innervate is done or something.

    So it's not as bad as it first looks, and with some clever talent choices you can get around the "no healing" rule. I still think that Shaman's have the worst regen mechanic, and Pally's the best... but in the end they all suck cause the active regen model just doesn't fit with my idea of how a healer should play or micromanage their mana.
    OoC works only on spells that have a cast time. So thats nourish healing touch and regrowth, all of those spells are not as good as say rejuv. Its not like u get OoC proc and can spam insta heals for 20 secs for free. Otherwise I agree, I roll healer to heal not dps.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerxes View Post
    I have healed in the past when the 3 sec rule was a way of getting some needed mana regen, although our new cahnge of getting 2.5% mana back every 4 sec for 8 sec needs work. As im sure it will since i know its only Alpha.

    Anyone kinda more interested in having the shaman telluric current vs our inervate. A passive which awards 1.25% mana for a free lightning bolt, vs us who have to basically not heal for 10 sec for 5% mana, or 6 sec for 2.5, or lose a certain amount of that regen'ing mana if we cast wrath during that time. Even pallies now 7% gain from spending 3 hp (granted i dont actually know how difficult it is for them to accumulate that nor how quickly).

    Will be interested to see its progression as we move towards beta and onwards. Thoughts?...
    Pretty sure wrath is free for resto, so you can wrath inbetween lightning bolts.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Hello Druids, Shaman here. I just wanna say that as a Shaman, I really don't like Telluric Currents. By adding TC and mana regen mechanics for all healers it prob means they will be balanced around it. Healing can get pretty hectic, and I like having gaps every once in a while. It lets you reposition yourself, dispel, CC/kite or whatever. Adding an active mana regen mechanic like TC means every available gcd will be filled with LB which sucks, the spell has a slow cast and it just seems tedious and lame. It will also be impossible to utilize in PVP.

    I much prefer the traditional regen stuff like passives w/ procs based off crits or certain heal spells that give steady regen of mana plus a %mana CD when you really need a big boost. It works so why break it?


    But anyways, reason why I'm posting in the Druid forum is that while comparing each healers regen mechanic, I noticed something about the Druid one. At first look, it seems kinda lame as if you can't use heals for 4-8 seconds depending on if you want both ticks or not... but I realized that is not totally true.

    The Druid Innervate ticks until you use MANA on a heal spell, which means if you use a mana free heal or dps then you won't break innervate. Druids have a talent that lets them convert wrath damage into healing, so they can spam wrath for 8 sec while Innervate ticks. Even better though is Omen of Clarity, if you time your Innervate after OoC then you can get a free heal off and not break Innervate..... AND if you spec for the final tier talent Moment of Clarity, your OoC lasts 5 sec giving you mana free heals during that time. So that means you let OoC proc, pop Innervate, and you can get like 4-5 sec of free heals off then just switch to wrath spam until Innervate is done or something.

    So it's not as bad as it first looks, and with some clever talent choices you can get around the "no healing" rule. I still think that Shaman's have the worst regen mechanic, and Pally's the best... but in the end they all suck cause the active regen model just doesn't fit with my idea of how a healer should play or micromanage their mana.
    As has been said OoC, with or without the talent, will only work on cast time spells so at best we'll get in two, maybe three Regrowths depending on Haste.

    I would much rather prefer something more like Nature's Vigil + Leader of the Pack while in Cat form.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    As has been said OoC, with or without the talent, will only work on cast time spells so at best we'll get in two, maybe three Regrowths depending on Haste.
    You might think that now, but things can change.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    So that means you let OoC proc, pop Innervate, and you can get like 4-5 sec of free heals off then just switch to wrath spam until Innervate is done or something.
    Just a correction: If you let OOC proc before innervating with the Moment of Clarity talent, you're going to waste some duration of it just casting innervate, so we'd really only get 2-3s free casts, not 4-5s in that case.

  6. #46
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsin View Post
    OoC works only on spells that have a cast time. So thats nourish healing touch and regrowth, all of those spells are not as good as say rejuv. Its not like u get OoC proc and can spam insta heals for 20 secs for free. Otherwise I agree, I roll healer to heal not dps.
    Yes, but that is still heals... and wrath spam when you can't heal. My point was just to show that you don't have to sit around for 8 sec doing nothing.... not that I am defending the mechanic, like I mentioned earlier I hate the whole idea and think they should go back to our traditional mana regen.

    You might think that now, but things can change.
    Interesting post bout having MoC work on all heals.

    Just a correction: If you let OOC proc before innervating with the Moment of Clarity talent, you're going to waste some duration of it just casting innervate, so we'd really only get 2-3s free casts, not 4-5s in that case.
    True, you might only get 1 or 2 heals off in that case.

  7. #47
    So whilst casually browsing the leveling perks for restodruids on wow head, I stumbled across something that might be worth noting in this thread.

    "Readiness: Restoration. Increases the cooldown recovery rate by 0% on your Innervate, Nature's Swiftness, Tranquility, Might of Ursoc, Stampeding Roar, and Ironbark abilities (0% cooldown reduction)."

    Personally, I don't quite understand the rational here. Why include a non-CD'd spell in a new stat that inherently reduces the spell's CD duration.
    How could this possibly benefit us? Would this somehow reduce the "no mana-use on healing spells" downtime of Innervate? Thoughts?

  8. #48
    Having been a victim of the 5 second rule once before, unlike the vast majority of other druids here; I can only say that this is stupid; and there is a reason it got removed from the game once already.

    Having 4 healers, and 1 sit outside the 5sr (5 sec rule), giving the other 3 healers the chance to basically spend all their mana, was kind of good but in the end we were all doing it, so it was just a quirky way of playing that required a queue system.

    Theres little to nothing this can add to our play style in its current form, but I think its safe to assume it will never go live so I am not too worried.
    ^ I agree with this.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by otterfluff View Post
    So whilst casually browsing the leveling perks for restodruids on wow head, I stumbled across something that might be worth noting in this thread.

    "Readiness: Restoration. Increases the cooldown recovery rate by 0% on your Innervate, Nature's Swiftness, Tranquility, Might of Ursoc, Stampeding Roar, and Ironbark abilities (0% cooldown reduction)."

    Personally, I don't quite understand the rational here. Why include a non-CD'd spell in a new stat that inherently reduces the spell's CD duration.
    How could this possibly benefit us? Would this somehow reduce the "no mana-use on healing spells" downtime of Innervate? Thoughts?
    I think alpha is alpha and readiness tooltips can not be trusted. I remember prior to 5.4 they also datamined CD reduction trinkets for healers much like the tank the melee dps trinkets that made it live so those tooltips are probably a hold over from that.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Hello Druids, Shaman here. I just wanna say that as a Shaman, I really don't like Telluric Currents.
    Interesting, because I love the Telluric Currents mechanic and absolutely hate the proposed changes to Innervate, to the point where I'll be going back to playing my shaman if it things stay this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    I much prefer the traditional regen stuff like passives w/ procs based off crits or certain heal spells that give steady regen of mana plus a %mana CD when you really need a big boost. It works so why break it?
    Because it doesn't currently work. None of the things you mention really do anything, and could all be replaced by higher base mana regeneration rate. If the goal is to make crit more appealing by having it also restore mana, a passive that grants X% of your crit rating as spirit would have the same net result. Mana regeneration abilities that you just click on cooldown might as well be turned into passive regen, as they add no gameplay other than "press this button every three minutes". Most of the mana regeneration "mechanics" currently in the game are just cosmetic. WoW's mana system was inherited from older games and is getting very dated, and it shows. They need to actually address it properly at some point. This might be that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    The Druid Innervate ticks until you use MANA on a heal spell, which means if you use a mana free heal or dps then you won't break innervate. Druids have a talent that lets them convert wrath damage into healing, so they can spam wrath for 8 sec while Innervate ticks.
    We know. The problem is that the free healing is reliant on procs that may or may not happen, and which will give you one or two heals at best (unless you pick a specific talent). Being able to cast Wrath is pointless because no one actually wants to cast Wrath. If casting Wrath was meaningful or interesting, we'd be doing that already. The damage it does is trivial, the utility is nonexistent and it really won't matter if you spam Wrath or go AFK. The Dream of Cenarius talent is neat, but it will never be worth giving up Nature's Vigil for. NV gives you healing when your raid needs healing; DoC gives you healing when your raid doesn't. One is obviously better than the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by otterfluff View Post
    "Readiness: Restoration. Increases the cooldown recovery rate by 0% on your Innervate, Nature's Swiftness, Tranquility, Might of Ursoc, Stampeding Roar, and Ironbark abilities (0% cooldown reduction)."
    That tooltip simply hasn't been updated. Probably intentionally so, in case they decide to give Innervate a cooldown again or remove it again. No point changing tooltips back and forth every day.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

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