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  1. #1

    No more bear hug...

    Is it just me, or are they stripping the class down to the bear bones (no pun intended). Can't say it makes me interested in the next expansion.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  2. #2
    Ability pruning is happening, what a new and interesting revelation...

  3. #3
    There are people that actually liked bear hug? I mean I won't say its completely useless but that alone isn't justification for keeping it in the game.

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  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Hooliganz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    There are people that actually liked bear hug? I mean I won't say its completely useless but that alone isn't justification for keeping it in the game.
    people tend to complain for the fun of it :"D

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    There are people that actually liked bear hug?
    ... yes?
    It's our baseline stun and, barring high vengeance, our hardest hitting ability by a good margin. What's not to like?

    I guess it's one way to get more people to take bash, but since they don't need to do that... did they just not like us having 2 stuns?

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    did they just not like us having 2 stuns?
    They didn't like anyone having two stuns. Lots of crowd control is being removed or nerfed across the board.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Ability pruning is happening, what a new and interesting revelation...
    It just seems an odd thing for them to be doing. Under normal conditions, I would expect NEW things in an expansion, not the removal of things that are already here. But it seems that some players get confused by choices, so they had to remove the talents, and they suffer injury with more then four buttons to press. Ah well, it's just very dull is all.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  8. #8
    If they wanted bears to not have two stuns, they could have just removed the stun component of bear hug. I mean, we were slated to get a bonus that made it so we didn't get immobilized by using it anyway, so why not?

  9. #9
    Pruning was long overdue.
    Whether it happened in small amounts regularly, or this big one there would have been complaints.

    Blizzard recently described how the game was always having more abilities added, but rarely were any removed.
    A good point, but perhaps it should have been something addressed much sooner.

    Such a vast prune like this suits new players or players new to a class better than experienced ones, since those without experience might adjust better due to lack of expectations or habits.

    It simply had to happen though, one way or another.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Pruning was long overdue.
    Whether it happened in small amounts regularly, or this big one there would have been complaints.

    Blizzard recently described how the game was always having more abilities added, but rarely were any removed.
    A good point, but perhaps it should have been something addressed much sooner.

    Such a vast prune like this suits new players or players new to a class better than experienced ones, since those without experience might adjust better due to lack of expectations or habits.

    It simply had to happen though, one way or another.
    They've constantly removed abilities... it's just that in the past they've given a new one for every two or so they remove. This seems to be the first time they're just getting rid of things for the sake of getting rid of them. We'll see how it goes, but if 6.0 is as boring as it looks like it'll be my nine year run with WoW may be over.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  11. #11
    Personally I'd have preferred they make Bash upgrade Bear Hug in some way, removing the self-root or giving it a reduced cooldown or increased duration or something. Bears have never had a huge kit while actually in bear form, especially in terms of utility. Having a baseline stun was nice.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    It frees up that Enhanced Bear hug for Guardians for something more powerful, like a potential extra SD charge.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  13. #13
    TBH, bear hug was an ability i bearly used.. and its redundant with mighty bash. I'm fine with it's removal.

  14. #14
    stripping the class down to the bear bones (no pun intended)
    bear bones (no pun intended)
    bear
    "to the bare bones"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    It frees up that Enhanced Bear hug for Guardians for something more powerful, like a potential extra SD charge.
    Let's hope so, because even with my constant optimism concerning our baseline toolkit over time, it's starting to look a little too simplistic. Not to say that Bear Hug was an earth-shattering game mechanic, but it could be used in skillful and beneficial ways (my fav being an anti-knockback button, similar to Pillar of Frost for DKs... just harder to use). My only concern is if Guardians will start to fall behind in terms of our toolkit, as that has been one of the big concerns for quite a while. Even if abilities (CC/utility) are pruned across all tank classes, it doesn't help that aspect of tanking if the end result is the basically the same proportional distribution where Guardians still are behind everyone else. Guess I'm glad I'm still a Tauren, yay Warstomp!

    I do find it quite ironic that our new abilities gained in MoP were the ones to get pruned, although it makes sense from a precedent point of view.

    *edit* - From a raiding perspective, I hope changes like these indicate that our CC/utility talents will become more useful in a raiding environment. Part of the reason I'm hard-pressed to give up a baseline stun ability is because stuns are typically the best CC in raids by a mile. MoP did offer Guardians more in terms of CC than we've ever seen, I'd just prefer that the entire toolkit be useful rather than a select few, although this is bordering on a different discussion.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2014-04-24 at 07:27 PM.
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  16. #16
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    "to the bare bones"
    No, no. They're stripping the class down to the bear bones by removing a skill that bearly anyone used.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Let's hope so, because even with my constant optimism concerning our baseline toolkit over time, it's starting to look a little too simplistic. Not to say that Bear Hug was an earth-shattering game mechanic, but it could be used in skillful and beneficial ways (my fav being an anti-knockback button, similar to Pillar of Frost for DKs... just harder to use). My only concern is if Guardians will start to fall behind in terms of our toolkit, as that has been one of the big concerns for quite a while. Even if abilities (CC/utility) are pruned across all tank classes, it doesn't help that aspect of tanking if the end result is the basically the same proportional distribution where Guardians still are behind everyone else. Guess I'm glad I'm still a Tauren, yay Warstomp!

    I do find it quite ironic that our new abilities gained in MoP were the ones to get pruned, although it makes sense from a precedent point of view.

    *edit* - From a raiding perspective, I hope changes like these indicate that our CC/utility talents will become more useful in a raiding environment. Part of the reason I'm hard-pressed to give up a baseline stun ability is because stuns are typically the best CC in raids by a mile. MoP did offer Guardians more in terms of CC than we've ever seen, I'd just prefer that the entire toolkit be useful rather than a select few, although this is bordering on a different discussion.
    I wouldn't get too concerned with our toolkit and that it got slightly reduced. I'm not shedding a tear atm at what they have done to Guardians or any other tank, however, it seems quite odd that they are really bringing every other tank down to our current level of ease and simplicity instead of bringing us up to them. The only tank that seems to have any complexity left are Monks, and it's really because they haven't done much to them, outside of the QoL changes and ability pruning that they have done to everyone else.

    Yes, utility and control got purged from every tank. The only tank now with a baseline stun are Paladins with HoJ. Guardians actually got hit the least, simply because they didn't have much in the first place to purge. Any meaningful utility and control is now going to come through talents, which is the way it was probably meant to be designed in the first place.

    As for Bear Hug, I'm fine for it being removed. Didn't care for it much anyway. Be glad that it was removed over something else in our toolkit, like Berserk. (inb4 Berserk gets removed too)

    I also spent the time on all of the tanks to remove all of the abilities that are getting purged in the expansion. I found that every tank has a similar amount of buttons now, including any and all utility, control, talents, etc that one could meaningfully use. I think it's a design intent.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Let's hope so, because even with my constant optimism concerning our baseline toolkit over time, it's starting to look a little too simplistic. Not to say that Bear Hug was an earth-shattering game mechanic, but it could be used in skillful and beneficial ways (my fav being an anti-knockback button, similar to Pillar of Frost for DKs... just harder to use). My only concern is if Guardians will start to fall behind in terms of our toolkit, as that has been one of the big concerns for quite a while. Even if abilities (CC/utility) are pruned across all tank classes, it doesn't help that aspect of tanking if the end result is the basically the same proportional distribution where Guardians still are behind everyone else. Guess I'm glad I'm still a Tauren, yay Warstomp!

    I do find it quite ironic that our new abilities gained in MoP were the ones to get pruned, although it makes sense from a precedent point of view.

    *edit* - From a raiding perspective, I hope changes like these indicate that our CC/utility talents will become more useful in a raiding environment. Part of the reason I'm hard-pressed to give up a baseline stun ability is because stuns are typically the best CC in raids by a mile. MoP did offer Guardians more in terms of CC than we've ever seen, I'd just prefer that the entire toolkit be useful rather than a select few, although this is bordering on a different discussion.
    Our utility next expansion...
    Typhoon (On any fight where a knockback would be useful.), or Mass Entanglement
    Ursol's Vortex, or Disorienting Roar (Ursol's will be more useful in general, but there is the occaisonal fight where Disorienting Roar will be useful).
    HotW Rejuve healing, or Dream of Cenarious Healing Touch, or Nature's Vigil.
    Brez. At this point, Brez needs to simply be instant for druids, and usable in all forms.
    Druids "Niche"- Extremely high HP. Guardians will have the HIGHEST HP of ALL tanks by a landslide.

    Let me see some comparisions...
    DK- Purgatory/Lichborne/AMZ (death-prevention, fear-immunity, raid CD)
    Remorseless Winter/Desecrated Ground/Gorefiends Grasp (AoE Stun, CC Immunity, AoE-DG. Gorefiends Grasp most useful)
    T100- All 3 options provides a very good damage reduction for a tank. Either tons of extra RP with Necrotic Plague, 10% DR CD with 33% uptime with Defile, or Breathe of Sindy, 5% healing from magical damage done.
    DKs niche next expansion seems to be "Cooldowns".

    Paladins- Hands. Bubbles. Light's Hammer/Holy Prism.
    Paladins niche seems to be "heals".

    Warriors- Mocking Banner. Charge/Leap/Intervene. T75 talents.
    Warriors seem to be "most mobile" tank.

    Monks... Utility wise, most of their utility is being removed next expansion. Avert Harm, gone. Ox Shields, gone. Only utility I can possibly think of is Chi Burst, but even then, its not much. Maybe the fact that Ox Statue prevents healers from getting threat on new adds?
    Niche seems to be "AoE tank"
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    No, no. They're stripping the class down to the bear bones by removing a skill that bearly anyone used.
    I can't bear to see these puns any longer!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Ability pruning is happening, what a new and interesting revelation...
    Who keeps shitting in your cereal?

  20. #20
    Blizzard is removing all the crappy and seldom used abilities which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately for Bears and Cats that encompasses almost every ability they have received over the last few years.

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