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  1. #1

    How do you feel about abilities that use items?

    I posted this thread in the monk forums, but I feel like the topic would be better discussed and answered here instead.

    "One thing that's always bothered me with spells and more specifically spells that seem to require reagents or items to use with them but are seemingly endless. The monk in particular uses a variety of teas and brews... so how do you imagine these abilities being used in your mind. Does the monk in question simply have his brews ready beforehand... or perhaps through his training in the mist and magic is he able to conjure the brew akin to a mana gem? "

    ^^ The topic I brought up and wish to discuss more fruitfully here!

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome taliey's Avatar
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    Kind of like soulstones with warlocks. Especially destro locks.

    Though the abilities you mentioned are integral to monks (from the uninformed paladin), it does pose amusing implications if these abilities were to pan out in 'real life' or 'real time.' What happens when they chug like 2 in a minute? What happens when they chug while being attacked? You would think the attacker would knock the substance out of their hands, but instead, they have the civility to let the monk drink the substance, uninterrupted.

    But then again, games are meant for entertainment, not for realistically portraying life. But then again, suspension of disbelief.

  3. #3
    Warchief Galbrei's Avatar
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    What are you asking? The lore reason behind these skills or whether we'd prefer if they actually used items or not? As someone who has been playing a rogue since the days when we needed blind dust, thieves' tools and a bag full of poisons to play his class let me be the first to welcome this change and free my iventory of all that useless junk.
    I still keep my thieves tool in my bank for memory's sake though.

  4. #4
    I guess because I want to know if others share a similar opinion. In my eyes, it's way cooler if monks utilize a single runed or glyphed container which using some ancient techniques, they are able to focus and collect mana within the container, the mana is then made manifest physically be becoming a liquid or a tea of some sort, then they just drink this during combat and it's kind of like an energy shot or something.

    It's way way way more boring if I think of a Brewmaster as a drunk batman, with a utility belt full of different beers + walking stick

  5. #5
    And ankh stones and all those mage reagents and soulshards *shudder*.

    I think it's just a suspension of disbelief thing, nobody wants reagents back!
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  6. #6
    Disconnect between gameplay and lore. Lore-wise, you're not really shooting a hundred fireballs at your enemies, either - especially not over the course of five minutes.

  7. #7
    I understand the disconnect between gameplay and lore, I'm not trying to bring reagents back. That's exactly what bores me about the idea of the monk class. The fact that it seems a great deal of their power comes from a reagent. I'm trying to think of, or find a consensus within the community to see if they disagree that monks use a reagent to power themselves and instead have some sort of magical based way of creating these brews...instead of again, literally brewing them..pocketing them...and bringing themt o drink during combat.


    Lore-wise you're not really drinking 10 can's of brew during combat, especially not over 5-10 minutes...but my question is...are you really even drinking one? Like...what sort of combat veteran...drinks...in combat....and becomes more successful. Unless were talking about Popeye here.

  8. #8
    High Overlord Tazienne's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zui_Quan

    Drunken Fist.
    "Even though the style seems irregular and off balance it takes the utmost balance to be successful. To excel one must be relaxed and flow with ease from technique to technique. Swaying, drinking, and falling are used to throw off opponents. When the opponent thinks the drunken boxer is vulnerable he is usually well balanced and ready to strike. When swigging a wine cup the practitioner is really practicing grabbing and striking techniques."

    Drinking while in combat isn't exactly a new idea. I just assumed that the brew-based skills of my monk were related to this particular style. After all, I am a Brewmaster. I'm supposedly carrying around a keg with me at all times anyway, might as well take a swig now and again.
    TAZI-BEAR ... da Beast


  9. #9
    What I want to know is why [Light Feather]s were required to cast [Slow Fall], when it is a spell that manipulates time?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  10. #10
    Those teas and brews are just like the arrows or ammo of hunters imo. Lorewise they carry them around, but gameplay doesn't %100 follow the lore.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    Lore-wise you're not really drinking 10 can's of brew during combat, especially not over 5-10 minutes...but my question is...are you really even drinking one?
    Yes. From what I recall it's heavily implied their brews have mystical properties. It might even be explicitly stated.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by taliey View Post
    Kind of like soulstones with warlocks. Especially destro locks.

    Though the abilities you mentioned are integral to monks (from the uninformed paladin), it does pose amusing implications if these abilities were to pan out in 'real life' or 'real time.' What happens when they chug like 2 in a minute? What happens when they chug while being attacked? You would think the attacker would knock the substance out of their hands, but instead, they have the civility to let the monk drink the substance, uninterrupted.

    But then again, games are meant for entertainment, not for realistically portraying life. But then again, suspension of disbelief.
    You never watched the old Gummy Bears cartoon, did you? :-P
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    I understand the disconnect between gameplay and lore, I'm not trying to bring reagents back. That's exactly what bores me about the idea of the monk class. The fact that it seems a great deal of their power comes from a reagent. I'm trying to think of, or find a consensus within the community to see if they disagree that monks use a reagent to power themselves and instead have some sort of magical based way of creating these brews...instead of again, literally brewing them..pocketing them...and bringing themt o drink during combat.


    Lore-wise you're not really drinking 10 can's of brew during combat, especially not over 5-10 minutes...but my question is...are you really even drinking one? Like...what sort of combat veteran...drinks...in combat....and becomes more successful. Unless were talking about Popeye here.
    I wouldn't say a substantial amount of a Monk's power comes from reagents...
    All of those ridiculous attacks that don't use anything but energy, Chi (spirit energy), and their weapons count as nothing?

    The idea of the Monk class and their various brews comes from things like
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5qHxY_vX8o
    Brews that fortify you and allow you to shrug off damage that would usually stop you; energize you when you're struggling to get enough energy to do another move; refocus your mind after mentally exhausting yourself - those are things the Monk is able to brew because of their understanding of chi.

    You're not very imaginative if all you think of in a fantasy universe for 'combat veteran' is a dude with a big sword.
    Last edited by Instructor Soki; 2014-04-24 at 06:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome taliey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    You never watched the old Gummy Bears cartoon, did you? :-P
    HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY INTELLIGENT RESPONSE... no, I never did.

    Why do you ask?

  15. #15
    Meh. That's my biggest turnoff to the class. It doesn't...seem as awesome as conjuring like manatea through a mystical technique or utilizing mist (which, I just assume is some odd form of magic energy taking the form of a mystical mist) to fill a cup with mystical tea or brew.

    Idk...I feel like everything about the monk is cool, but then you throw in the Teas and brews mid-combat all the time, and it's like an odd advertisement for drinks. "Drink Tigereye brew and you'll feel supercharged!"

    Same thing I have a problem with playing Witch Doctor or Hunter or Demon hunter. I can totally get into the idea that a Hunter's bow is embedded with a magical gem, or enchanted to be able to produce magical arrows...Not really onboard for the "limited" arrows or "limited darts" or "limited skulls" function which would persist in lore. I realize when I play WoW, I think about it at a deeper level, but thats because I get into the game, I dont RP, but I like to feel like if my character existed, he'd be similar to how he is in game, and he'd be just as powerful, but things like preparing brews to be used before combat...are extreme limiting factors in power.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    The monk in particular uses a variety of teas and brews... so how do you imagine these abilities being used in your mind. Does the monk in question simply have his brews ready beforehand... or perhaps through his training in the mist and magic is he able to conjure the brew akin to a mana gem,
    You think it's a problem? I'd rather question where the hell does he take infinite barrels to fling around and smash over enemies' heads. Infinite arrows/minor arcane reagents - I'm okay with it. Infinite flasks/brews/grenades - not as much, but it's tolerable. Infinite barrels - fucking Donkey Kong!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    What I want to know is why [Light Feather]s were required to cast [Slow Fall], when it is a spell that manipulates time?
    I thought it made you light like a feather.
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  17. #17
    See, i agree, infinite barrels and such is like...insane to even think of if you believe that the barrels are kept with him...or near him, however if he's able to do like...a spell which causes the mist to manifest in the form of a barrel and explode like a liquid bomb...that's kinda okay.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I thought it made you light like a feather.
    Probably what they thought when they gave it a reagent cost. Manipulating the weight of something would still fall into the transmutation school. But someone didn't consult the lore department when they wrote this:
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2014-04-24 at 06:40 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  19. #19
    I don't know - I knew a dudebro when I was first at University who could slam a jug of beer in about a second and a half ... I find it plausible that a monk could earn similar prowess? :P

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    See, i agree, infinite barrels and such is like...insane to even think of if you believe that the barrels are kept with him...or near him, however if he's able to do like...a spell which causes the mist to manifest in the form of a barrel and explode like a liquid bomb...that's kinda okay.
    That's too convoluted to be the case. A warrior certainly doesn't conjure exact copies of his weapon when he uses Shattering Throw.
    /facepalm Well, Blizzard being "consistent" again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

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