Echo of the Elements in WoD

[Rooskie1993]

I haven't seen another thread about this so I wanted to make one.

the recent alpha notes show that echo was changed to now instead of duping a spell it works way different, when you cast lava burst/shock/earthquake you have a chance to no proc the cooldown meaning you can cast it again, it seems like a huge nerf for ele considering echo could proc off our mastery.

what are your guys thoughts on this?

[Nebria]

from the 5.4 pov it is a loss in damage as you automatically get some kind of rng bonus damage which requires now to cast the spell.
also the eoe procs of cl and the resulting dmg are not gonna happen anymore.

from 6.0 pov I can't tell. the 3 spells which can consume eoe all have their situational need.
eq good on aoe where you will now use eq. question here is if the dmg buff applied by cl is not consumed when eq is casted and if you can cast multiple eq or if the first one disappears.
If FrS is intended to be used while moving I can see some use of EoE here, however question is how much damage FrS deals. It could be good for PvP too to not lock the shocks when you want to root somebody with FrS.
For LvB during ascendance you don't benefit from eoe procs so it is a damage loss compared to 5.4. Outside of ascendance eoe works with lava surge so you can have an instant lvb which does not triger a cd.

At the moment I'm not a big fan of the new EoE and the chance is high that I switch to another talent the major time.

[Slashcry86]

If they dont change this spell for better vesrion it will be totally useless serious who care about frost shock chance to reset the cd :s the only useful spell to proc is lava burst for PvE

And they said they will improve our single target dps and till now i dont see any improve they buff our spells damage as any other class and they nerf frost shock damage

Feral Spirit’ damage has been increased by 100%.
Frost Shock’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
Multiple Earth Shield can now be applied to the same target.
Glyph of Chaining no longer causes Chain Heal to have a 2-second cooldown.

I really dont understand this glyph chain heal is already have no cooldown without glyph ,, just buff it with increase distance ! everyone gonna use this glyph now make no sense !

[Nebria]

so the only question is how usefull is a proc and what chance do we have to get that proc.
eq => you can cast two eq. good for pve aoe situation if eq stacks.
lvb => you can cast 2 lvb in a row, works well with lava surge procs (instant lvb with no cd triggered). good in pve and pvp.
FrS => you will not trigger the shared shock cd and could use another shock next. good for pve when you want to cast FrS while moving and in PvP to kite somebody and not lock other shocks.

I liked the version where it was not limited to FrS better. Would have allowed to use FS and ES after each other or ES (with more stacks and the shock talent for improved damage) more often during CL spamming.

[Aleksej89]

With the latest patch this AWESOME talent got quite ruined in my opinion.

Now it only affects Frost Shock instead of all 3 Shocks, meaning that you can no longer get an extra Flame Shock or Earth Shock.

However since it affects Lava Burst and Stormstrike/Lava Lash, it is very possible that the proc would be never used for shocks since they deal less damage than the above mentioned attacks.

[Terminal Lance]

From the way it's worded, WoD Echo will work like the Mantid buff granted by one of the Klaxxis in Dread Wastes, i.e. even Lightning Bolt/Unleash Elements will trigger it, not just Lava Burst/Shocks/EQ. So it will feel somewhat like Lock and Load from Surv Hunters.
To me, this is a nice change. Live EotE just feels too passive and during encounters/"high stress" environments I don't even know if their triggering or not.

[Recom]

From the way it's worded, WoD Echo will work like the Mantid buff granted by one of the Klaxxis in Dread Wastes, i.e. even Lightning Bolt/Unleash Elements will trigger it, not just Lava Burst/Shocks/EQ. So it will feel somewhat like Lock and Load from Surv Hunters.
To me, this is a nice change. Live EotE just feels too passive and during encounters/"high stress" environments I don't even know if their triggering or not.

Exactly. The new EotE looks a lot more fun and rewarding than the live version AND it will work with multistrike (remember that you have to cast to proc multistrike so auto cast like the old EotE would not work).

It would have been nice if it applied to all shocks but with pandemic becoming baseline for every spec in the game we may not need that at all.

[Nebria]

It would have been nice if it applied to all shocks but with pandemic becoming baseline for every spec in the game we may not need that at all.

what's that? (bold part)

[Lavindar]

what's that? (bold part)

You can refresh the DoT anytime during the last 50% of the duration and the damage that it would have dealt will be added to the new duration.

[Protoman]

You can refresh the DoT anytime during the last 50% of the duration and the damage that it would have dealt will be added to the new duration.

I think that is for warlocks.


As for EotE, I am sad about the loss of all shocks too.... it would have had nice synergy with Shocking Lava and for Enh more ranged abilities to use EotE with. To me it seems that making it just Frost Shock is something they are testing along with the temporary TBD removal of Imp Frost Shock. This basically would give you a chance to get a free frost shock which is kinda similar to Imp FRS. I doubt anyone would use EoE for FRS though other then certain PVP situations.

There are some cool things you can do with EoE like SS or LL x2, or for Elem FRS root> fulm ES for kiting/burst combo. Kinda makes me wish Shocks did more damage or anything special for Enhance, that has always annoyed me actually since we use shocks the most of all shaman but no indepth mechanics for it.

Overall though, I am not a big fan of this talent. I can see the theme of the talent, basically passive/sustained damage thru procs for double hits, while other 2 talents are burstier cds. Its fine for PVE but for PVP ENH is already far to random in our damage, we have no real mechanics to store resources or time our burst.....

That horrible FLS/FN/LL mechanic is just more RNG waiting on FLS to proc a free LL. I would really like a way to time or store our burst, thru a stack or buff mechanic sorta like how Fulm works with Elem.... they build stacks with other abilities and can unleash burst with a spell they won't use until they need it. Its harder to pull off with ENH since we use all our shocks, but they could design something good if they tried, tho its getting harder since they cut out alot of abilities (a super charged ULE could have worked in this case).

[Lavindar]

I think that is for warlocks.

You are right it's 30% for everyone, don't know if warlocks will keep the original effect.

[Omanley]

From enh POV, EotE seems awesome and exciting, but not that good for ele. The reason is that ele is not as build around waiting for cooldowns as enh, so not triggering a cd on your next LvB isn't as helpful.

Shocking Lava meanwhile seems more an elemental talent, since they're like to cast LvB more than enh will cast LL (and ele mastery procs may also proc Shocking Lava) priority-wise. Combining Fulmination with Shocking Lava is like to produce some insane damage potential on Earth Shock.

[SamoTray]

From enh POV, EotE seems awesome and exciting, but not that good for ele. The reason is that ele is not as build around waiting for cooldowns as enh, so not triggering a cd on your next LvB isn't as helpful.

Shocking Lava meanwhile seems more an elemental talent, since they're like to cast LvB more than enh will cast LL (and ele mastery procs may also proc Shocking Lava) priority-wise. Combining Fulmination with Shocking Lava is like to produce some insane damage potential on Earth Shock.

I don't thing Shocking Lava and Fulmination will coincide with one another since the dmg of Fulmination is not determined by earth shock's dmg its determined from LS charges, but the increased ES dmg will be nice.

[Omanley]

I don't thing Shocking Lava and Fulmination will coincide with one another since the dmg of Fulmination is not determined by earth shock's dmg its determined from LS charges, but the increased ES dmg will be nice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fulmination unleashed via Earth Shock? If so, yes they will be able to coincide. You will hit one button (Earth Shock), and will unleash both an (through Shocking Lava) enhanced Earth Shock as well as the Lightning Shield charges. How it is portrayed in the dmg source pie is irrelevant, you will still have dealt tremendous damage through one ability.

[Lavindar]

From enh POV, EotE seems awesome and exciting, but not that good for ele. The reason is that ele is not as build around waiting for cooldowns as enh, so not triggering a cd on your next LvB isn't as helpful.

Shocking Lava meanwhile seems more an elemental talent, since they're like to cast LvB more than enh will cast LL (and ele mastery procs may also proc Shocking Lava) priority-wise. Combining Fulmination with Shocking Lava is like to produce some insane damage potential on Earth Shock.

We will be casting a lot more Lava Lash in Wod thought, because of the cooldown reset mechanic.

[SamoTray]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fulmination unleashed via Earth Shock? If so, yes they will be able to coincide. You will hit one button (Earth Shock), and will unleash both an (through Shocking Lava) enhanced Earth Shock as well as the Lightning Shield charges. How it is portrayed in the dmg source pie is irrelevant, you will still have dealt tremendous damage through one ability.

My mistake I misinterpreted what you wrote I thought u meant fulminations dmg was going to be increased via shocking lava. Anyway just because fulmination is unleashed via ES doesn't mean fulmination coincides with shocking lava. Fulmination has nothing to do with shocking lava and the only things fulmination coincides with is ES and LS. Now, whether shocking lava is better for ELE or ENH we will just have to wait for testing to see, but on live ES makes up less that 2% of both specs overall dmg while FS makes up about 5-8% and with pandemic being given to all classes refreshing an already ticking FS will yield more dmg unless were at max LS stacks.

[Omanley]

We will be casting a lot more Lava Lash in Wod thought, because of the cooldown reset mechanic.

That is true. It's hard to say right now how often the talent would be triggered by each spec. Since LvB is ele's bread-and-butter skill though, it was my impression that Shocking Lava was more "central" ability-wise for ele. LL is apparently below SS and msw spells atm, and is like to remain that way with the SS (+30% with LS and the perk) and MSW (perk) buffs. With gaining more haste, I wouldn't be surprised if MSW often collided with improved Lava Lash, causing the letter to not be utilized fully. That said, LL priority could rise with Shocking Lava talent.

the only things fulmination coincides with is ES and LS.

Shocking Lava
Instant
Requires Shaman
Your Lava Burst and Lava Lash increase the damage of your next Earth Shock or Flame Shock by 50%, stacking up to 2 times.

Fulmination and Shocking Lava DO coincide when using Earth Shock.
Also, I'm sure those 2% ES does do not include Fulmination, which essentially is part of Earth Shock and should be added.
Highest ranked elemental in what seems to be a mostly single target fight 4.6% Fulmination + 1.3% Earth Shock => ~6% of damage done by using Earth Shock, which would be increased via Shocking Lava.

[Lavindar]

That is true. It's hard to say right now how often the talent would be triggered by each spec. Since LvB is ele's bread-and-butter skill though, it was my impression that Shocking Lava was more "central" ability-wise for ele. LL is apparently below SS and msw spells atm, and is like to remain that way with the SS (+30% with LS and the perk) and MSW (perk) buffs. With gaining more haste, I wouldn't be surprised if MSW often collided with improved Lava Lash, causing the letter to not be utilized fully. That said, LL priority could rise with Shocking Lava talent.

Wow, thinking about it now, with the new EotE Enhancement's priorities will become a mess with so many things having to be used asap to not waste procs.

[Alextros]

Shocking Lava
Instant
Requires Shaman
Your Lava Burst and Lava Lash increase the damage of your next Earth Shock or Flame Shock by 50%, stacking up to 2 times.

Fulmination and Shocking Lava DO coincide when using Earth Shock.
Also, I'm sure those 2% ES does do not include Fulmination, which essentially is part of Earth Shock and should be added.
Highest ranked elemental in what seems to be a mostly single target fight 4.6% Fulmination + 1.3% Earth Shock => ~6% of damage done by using Earth Shock, which would be increased via Shocking Lava.

Shocking Lava should not have an effect on Fulmination, as Fulmination has it's own damage. When you cast Earth Shock, while have additional stacks on Lightning Shield, you see your Earth Shock do x-amount of damage, and then Fulmination doing x-amount of damage, as Fulmination is not weaved into Earth Shock, it just procs it.

[Rezhka]

To me as ele shaman, this new EoTE is more amusing to take, since i never really can detect the proc on current EoTE (with those floating numbers between the multistrike proc trinket and overload). If only they also add Elemental Blast into it for ele (or even enhance along), then it'd be much greater. Man...it's really about time EB become a baseline for shaman and replace it with new talent.