How is PvP Sub played now days?

[aukake]

Havent played sub for pvp since Cata when it was op with the legs. Been running assassin and it does fine, but i see sub blowing people up like crazy. So whats the rotation, moves used and stuff now? Any help would be awesome

[Sicarius87]

Those sub rogues blowing ppl up are using cast sequence macros because they dont know how to rogue and they call themselves good.

A good mut rogue, such as myself, can better any sub rogue. Ive beaten 2200+ rogues in 2's. Now I realize I might get flamed for that, but a kill is a kill in my book regardless of what arena bracket.

Im just glad that subterfuge is getting the nerf that it so desperately needs.

[Illana]

Those sub rogues blowing ppl up are using cast sequence macros because they dont know how to rogue and they call themselves good.

A good mut rogue, such as myself, can better any sub rogue. Ive beaten 2200+ rogues in 2's. Now I realize I might get flamed for that, but a kill is a kill in my book regardless of what arena bracket.

Im just glad that subterfuge is getting the nerf that it so desperately needs.

sub will always be better in 3v3 (only bracket that matters really) since dance gives so much more utility than assassination can offer.

What cast sequence macro...?

As far as I'm concerned, sub burst is ambush+premed>evisc>MfD+evisc>ambush>ambush>evisc during a dance and that's FAR more burst than assassination could ever do.

sub really hasn't changed much since cata if I'm going to be honest.

[Mormolyce]

Sub is about utility and control, assass is a dumb damage cannon (with godawful CDs for PVP purposes). That's the essential difference.

[jtstormrage]

I don't pvp on my rogue, but it is something like this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=14 Shadow Blades, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Prideful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest, Eviscerate, Marked For Death, Eviscerate, Shadow Dance, Ambush, Premeditation, Eviscerate, Cheap Shot, Eviscerate, Ambush

[heartless8604]

Mostly from the graveyard if you're in random BG's. Of course that could just be me because I made the stupid stupid mistake of trying to pvp as alliance. And the even stupidier mistake of not learning the first few times.

[Illana]

I don't pvp on my rogue, but it is something like this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=14 Shadow Blades, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Prideful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest, Eviscerate, Marked For Death, Eviscerate, Shadow Dance, Ambush, Premeditation, Eviscerate, Cheap Shot, Eviscerate, Ambush

thats the worst shit ive ever seen

good luck killing anything that isn't afk with that macro.

[lolpve]

Those sub rogues blowing ppl up are using cast sequence macros because they dont know how to rogue and they call themselves good.

A good mut rogue, such as myself, can better any sub rogue. Ive beaten 2200+ rogues in 2's. Now I realize I might get flamed for that, but a kill is a kill in my book regardless of what arena bracket.

Im just glad that subterfuge is getting the nerf that it so desperately needs.

You MUST be trolling. Just wtf???

1) No one needs a castsequence macro and it in fact hinders gameplay since you're not doing the same exact combination every time.

2) Assassination rogues have always beaten sub rogues 1v1 since the dawn of time, because assassination is not positional and is not stealth-dependant. Assassination is a much worse spec that is popular with bad players because you can't possibly fuck up in any way playing it.

Really disappointed to read such ignorant trash, but then again this is mmo-champion not AJ.

[Sicarius87]

sub will always be better in 3v3 (only bracket that matters really) since dance gives so much more utility than assassination can offer.

What cast sequence macro...?

As far as I'm concerned, sub burst is ambush+premed>evisc>MfD+evisc>ambush>ambush>evisc during a dance and that's FAR more burst than assassination could ever do.

sub really hasn't changed much since cata if I'm going to be honest.

Every sub rogue uses this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=14 Shadow Blades, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Prideful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest, Eviscerate, Marked For Death, Eviscerate, Shadow Dance, Ambush, Premeditation, Eviscerate, Cheap Shot, Eviscerate, Ambush

thats the worst shit ive ever seen

good luck killing anything that isn't afk with that macro.

It's effective but not in higher bracket arenas and rbgs.

You MUST be trolling. Just wtf???

1) No one needs a castsequence macro and it in fact hinders gameplay since you're not doing the same exact combination every time.

2) Assassination rogues have always beaten sub rogues 1v1 since the dawn of time, because assassination is not positional and is not stealth-dependant. Assassination is a much worse spec that is popular with bad players because you can't possibly fuck up in any way playing it.

Really disappointed to read such ignorant trash, but then again this is mmo-champion not AJ.

No. I am not trolling.

1) No one NEEDS a castsequence macro but they are out there. It can only be used once everything that is in the cast sequence is off CD.

2) That is your opinion and I am in no way a bad player. Im really disappointed to read such ignorant trash, but then again this is mmo-champion and not AJ.

[fredsterr]

Every sub rogue uses this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=14 Shadow Blades, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Prideful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest, Eviscerate, Marked For Death, Eviscerate, Shadow Dance, Ambush, Premeditation, Eviscerate, Cheap Shot, Eviscerate, Ambush

It's effective but not in higher bracket arenas and rbgs.



No. I am not trolling.

1) No one NEEDS a castsequence macro but they are out there. It can only be used once everything that is in the cast sequence is off CD.

2) That is your opinion and I am in no way a bad player. Im really disappointed to read such ignorant trash, but then again this is mmo-champion and not AJ.

This...I don't understand how so many rogues get in their head that sub is the only way to go unless your bad...or your bad if you don't play sub bc it's for "Leet Skillz"

TL;DR People need to start thinking for themselves and trying things out for themselves instead of reading another persons idea or opinion without forming their own thoughts.

[Illana]

sub can cross cc an entire team, assassination cannot

sub is just leaps and bounds more useful in 3v3 if the person playing it is any good.

assassination skill cap and utility is just far too low for competitive arena.

[Kael]

Cool it folks.

[Sicarius87]

This...I don't understand how so many rogues get in their head that sub is the only way to go unless your bad...or your bad if you don't play sub bc it's for "Leet Skillz"

TL;DR People need to start thinking for themselves and trying things out for themselves instead of reading another persons idea or opinion without forming their own thoughts.

Agreed and im glad to finally see someone that shares my point of view. Regardless of what people may think, blizz did make it so that all specs for every class are viable for both pve and pvp. It's all on how you play your toon and it's respective spec.

sub can cross cc an entire team, assassination cannot

sub is just leaps and bounds more useful in 3v3 if the person playing it is any good.

assassination skill cap and utility is just far too low for competitive arena.

Again, it's all about how well you play your character's spec.

Cool it folks.

From my point of view, I think everyone is pretty chill. I havent seen any hostility really.

[Illana]

There's a point where assassination cannot provide any more just due to game mechanics not allowing it. Subtlety can just do so much that assassination can't and assassination has such few advantages over sub to justify the loss in control.

[Icecreamcake]

It's challenging, but I find it fun. As others have mentioned, support is one of the biggest roles and utilities a Sub Rogue can offer to their partner. In my opinion, if more Sub Rogues were in the mindset of support first then setting up for the kill rather than focusing on being offensive, they would have a lot more fun and understand their class and ideally their purpose in the Arena in the first place. It's taking a lot of practice for me but the more I play I feel the better I am being more aware of the situation and finding the right opportunities to CC and go offensive.

[Gumboy]

Sub rogues play like a barbarian trying to play the piano on a highly technical song imo :P

You run in, bash someone/buff your partner, if you don't get a kill, you run out and restealth to try to do the bash again and hope it turns into a song this time!

[Imperviable]

All sub rogues are awful and can't play with a macro doing their opener.

How can you or anyone else take you seriously when you make such broad, accusatory statements. I understand that people will always favor the class or spec that they play but at least make valid, logical arguments about why you think your spec is better rather than making baseless accusations.

[lifteez]

Good morning everyone! In regards to how sub is played, the 'meta' of it is sub provides utility in the form of tricks, smoke bomb, stuns and garrote, etc. Another aspect is burst. You will find both of these primarily come from openers and dance. If a team didn't need our utility, then they should just takes warrior because he provides superior damage, similar amount of cc, and better defensive a. But that's for another day.
It is important that you have the perfect storm going into your burst. Not dancing for a kill when your target is stun DR'd heavily, and has freedom/other team is in place to peel. So if you are familiar with previous seasons, sub rogues are less forgiving then ever in my opinion.

Rogue play in general: use of feint before possible damage(CDs popped from enemy team before stunning you) and during CDs.
Awareness of vanishes left, when to use offensively for cc and when to use defensively.
And the general knowledge that you will not obtain the general pressure of other damage specs without the use of CC, so use it properly!

Now the heat between sub and assassination. My opinion, assassination has a 'general' advantage over sub, outside of subs dance. The only time I've played mutilate competitively was the beginning of cata, when it was actually superior to sub on ladders. If you plan on doin 3s with friends, do what you want. If you want to bring what I believe is the best role a rogue can bring to threes', go sub.
Do not be mistaken: assassination and sub are not compareable as simple as X and Y

[plantation]

I've never even heard of that macro lol. Reminds me of the "1-shot macro" that people used to bitch about.

[Evolixe]

Sub rogues play like a barbarian trying to play the piano on a highly technical song imo :P

You run in, bash someone/buff your partner, if you don't get a kill, you run out and restealth to try to do the bash again and hope it turns into a song this time!

That is how you play this class. Create windows of oppertunity and strike when you get one.
Outside of that you purely focus on staying alive and keeping the situation under control the best you can.



Hi folks, been a while.