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  1. #341
    Oh yawn. They want the quests to be "epic". It's a video game, I derive no sense of accomplishment from finishing a quest. I want to go in and kill, then just leave. Even single player games do a better job than Blizzard does at that. They surround a boss with guards, so it's impossible to stealth in and only kill the boss. I don't see why they don't just surround the quest target with 10 guards if they want to make it "epic", or I don't know.... put the target inside a building with a single entrance.

    And seriously, quit thinking WoW was ever a hard game. It was simple, easy. If you think WoW is hard, I'd really love to see you play Dark Souls. I'm enjoying the hell out of the 2nd game, I just go in there, completely blind, and kill a boss in less than 5 attempts. In WoW, that would take at least 5 hours for a raid group to do, if at all. When I got stuck and had to look up what to do, I one-shot the boss. People in WoW, they look at boss strategies online, and it still takes them hours to learn.

    It's a video game, plain and simple, and you should cater to the people that see it as a video game first and foremost, as they only want to play the game and not have this grand sense of accomplishment from doing a piddly little quest, or "explore" the world. If flying was available from the start, that would effect NO ONE. It's all just a group of players that want their will forced on others. You keep flying, you can still explore. You can still get off your mount and sneak into an enemy camp. It changes absolutely zilch. No, it's just Furor wanting everyone to play his way, because video games are super serious business to him, and anyone that doesn't play his way needs to stop playing. We'll just ignore the fact that WoTLK was when WoW had the highest subscriptions, and it dropped dramatically when they tried to "hardcore it up" in Cataclysm.

  2. #342
    "As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

    Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away.
    "

    Wow its amazing they finally realize how a mmo should feel like. High 5 Blizzard, keep it going!

  3. #343
    Flying is fun, Blizzard are just terrible designers who can't figure out how to design content that involves flying.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Crembrole View Post
    Blizzard are just terrible designers
    Yeah.....NO.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    I did.

    No it wasn't.

    No it didn't.

    right...

    Was it? Or did you just ebay an account that was made during Vanilla and claim to have experiences you've seen in youtube videos about Vanilla?


    Just like it did before LFD (unless you ran with guildies)

    How can you define a group as sucking if they succeed at the goal? Is it maybe that you just get flustered because they don't do everything the exact way you expect them to?

    Speak for yourself, I try to help the tank by CCing when I can.

    I'll admit I do miss 2 hour BRD runs.

    So you're saying people don't quest to level up because of flying because when they level up they can fly?

    It would take longer to find somebody to pay who will hang out with you for the 12-24 hours it takes to level up than it would to just level up yourself. That's horse shit.


    There was chocobo caves and forests all over the place. And I'm fairly sure you could run from doomwhatever



    not sure if...



    I don't even know what side you're on any more.
    FYI I did play since the game's release, and on stress tests before release, and yeah I'm being absurd a bit for some light comedy.

    People in dungeons do suck. I'm a healer, so I see everything. I look at the damage meters. (By the way, I have the time to do this because healing is ridiculously easy.) First I feel angry that the hunter's top damage is autoshot and pet attacks. Then I feel guilty at myself because he might be 12 years old. Then I feel confused, angry at the confusion, and want to boot him. Then I realize the dungeon is 20 minutes long (30 with their dps), so I dps while healing, and try to feel good about carrying them. No one CCs. No one stops to drink. No one even types 90% of the time, because no strategy is required, unless they're fighting over loot.

    Also, regarding ground mounts in vanilla. At level 40 you had to farm gold just to get the basic mount. Then at 60, if you had the gold for an epic mount (the mounts everyone is complaining about using in WoD), you might as well run for senate. People wrote conspiracy posts about your being an illuminati, for the amount of fucking gold it required. You either ninja'd an epic and sold it, got some rare world drop, or won a BOE in a top raiding guild which no one needed.

    If you had a 100% speed mount, with a second set of gear with carrot on a stick, mithril spur boots, riding gloves, you were not only successful but smart as fuck. Those people are CEOs now, that's why there are less subscribers. When you got that mount you didn't even question that it appeared from another dimension under your ass, it's literally looking a gift horse in the mouth.

    Chocobo caves are a good thing. It means the mount is not only a sentient being and a real object, but that it has its own shelter -- and who knows, its own territory it marks with chocobo piss. If I remember correctly I think you could even make them fuck and hatch a chocobo egg, or maybe that's my twisted imagination. They even reproduced.

    If WoW mounts were neutral mobs in an actual place you could click on and ride, that would make so much more sense. The point is realism, valid logic which doesn't have to be sound logic.

    Flying serpents don't exist in real life. But if they do exist in a fake world they have to come from somewhere. Flying serpents don't just fuck each other during the last 2 weeks of a pvp season, have abortions if they go over the number of glad spots, and instantly make their children grow up and appear under the asses of new gladiators. Blizzard doesn't need to make an entire zone where horses bang each other, but a nice step would be getting rid of flying mounts.
    Last edited by Shridevi; 2014-04-26 at 06:24 PM.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Rude Hero View Post
    Another thing about flying- think of all the important places you'd want to fly to. How many of them will have a flight path next to them? Probably like 95%.

    The last 5% are probably good farming spots and raid entrances.
    For me the 5% are the most important and i want to get to the raid fast, i don't care for a "I'll never go there again Fortress" in "Nope nothing to do here Zone"

  7. #347
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmaker View Post
    "As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

    Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away.
    "

    Wow its amazing they finally realize how a mmo should feel like. High 5 Blizzard, keep it going!
    That wouldn't even work in the stuff in Krasarang Wilds. Because the flak cannons deal like 200,000 dps from 100 yards away. You have no choice but to fight your way in through the front gates and strategically move around, because if you can't land within 2 seconds of being spotted by a flak cannon you're dead. The difference is you don't have to worry about aggroing a bunch of level 86 crabs on the way to the fort that serve as nothing but a minor nuisance. But now in WoD we got crabs!

    So Blizzard already has done all of the stuff they claim removing flying will do. And it has worked out very flavourfully despite claims to the contrary. Which leaves only 1 possible explanation: They are so far behind on the terrain modelling that they were told "Just model the stuff visible from the ground and flightpaths and we'll just soapbox about the ground being more immersive (despite the horribly outdated terrain texture resolution that is there to constantly remind you that you're playing a 10 year old video game).

  8. #348
    Hope it's engineer made then.

  9. #349
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbr View Post
    Hope it's engineer made then.
    It'll be engineer made, but it will require rare materials so hard/expensive to get at the time, relative to the average amount of gold people have that you'll get 1 or 2 customers a month that will tip you the extra handful of cobalt bolts they thought they needed but didn't.

  10. #350
    I unsubbed last week because our guild had screwed up lockouts for three week (lockouts were not resetting for two healers and myself) and Blizzard wouldn't do anything to help us in order to play the game. But if I hadn't unsubbed this news of no flying does nothing to to make me want to try the next expansion. When WoD was announced at Blizzcon I was really excited for the setting but almost every time they release some gameplay related tid bit I can't help but feel less and less excited.

    I won't go out into the world if there is no flying. I imagine 'if' i do get the xpac I will spend much more time sitting around in a city queing for things than I ever did. I could go on and write about how this is just going backwards and post some long thought out rant/post about the changes that are being made that don't sound fun but I'll just leave it at this. As someone who does as many achievements as I can in this game I won't be checking rare spawns in different zones without flying. I won't gather resources. If I play at all I would likely finish the achievements in each zone before and never doing the quest again on any alts. If I stick around or comeback I'll be that guy in the raid who has to be summoned.
    Last edited by Dopplegager; 2014-04-26 at 06:32 PM.

  11. #351
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    ^ every expansion is wrought with disappointment because they announce it way the fuck too early and end up stripping down a lot of the announced features just to get it released before rabid fans raze blizzard hq.

    The solution: They need to quit announcing things so damn early. Like with a completely new property like ESO, you can announce it way early, because it's shiny and new. But with WoW people are already vested; false promises are worse for business than impatient customers.

  12. #352
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    Looks awesome, i hope this is a RaF mount

  13. #353

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Hard View Post
    I hope they will remove flying mounts entirely.
    Hear hear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shridevi View Post
    I think a lot of people here didn't play vanilla WoW. If you wanted to go to Ironforge to Felwood to farm herbs, or from Molten Core to Azshara to get Hydraxian Waterlord waters, it took 30 minutes just to travel. And guess what? It was fucking awesome. Flying immediately fucked up the game. The only time flying was good was when a flight gryphon glitched and you bounced around uncontrollably at 8000% speed.

    You want to go from IF to Dire Maul? Stand at the back of the boat with an Azure Silk Belt. Because guess what? The boat just fucking sank, and you were ready for it. This was when the game was good.

    I didn't even realize there was content anymore. When I level an alt I spam dungeons, about half the group sucks ass in the dungeons, yet you still easily clear it without wiping and without using any brain power whatsoever. You don't CC shit. A run lasts 20 minutes and mobs don't respawn if you take 2 hours like in Blackrock Depths. No one on a pvp realm is going to level up with quests. I forgot they even existed, except for those 3 first days of the expansion it takes to max level. Then you fly over shit. Even if you aren't 90 you just pay someone with a 2-seater mount to fly you places. That's horse shit.

    Imagine playing Final Fantasy, 6 for example, and the goddamn airship appears immediately. Even when you did get the airship at the end there was a boss that could aggro and wipe you out of nowhere. I would suck a dick for a chocobo in those games. It was extremely gratifying, especially when the chocobo song plays when you're riding on a big flamboyant bird. That's called a real ground mount, and it's all we should be able to use.

    Even that I would debate, because the damn WoW mount comes out of nowhere. A horse just diffuses out of a cloud under your ass. You don't "summon" shit, like in Zelda 64 where the horse is an actual sentient being which runs to you from the horizon. Blizzard could even go a step further and allow you 2 abilities to use on a ground mount. Aimed shot or crackling jade lightning. Why the fuck not, knights used to do it. What knights didn't do was ride on a giant flying monkey with a venomous stinger (which doesn't sting) all the way across to America, land on Hiawatha's tent, 1shot him with stampede, feign death then fly back to Wales after defeating an entire civilization. Fuck that shit.

    The game was infinitely better, and LEGITIMATELY addictive in vanilla. My raid leader got a divorce over the game. It took a buttload of time to do anything, but it made the results incredible. I would lead UBRS groups for 8 hours a day, hard as SHIT with respawns, with 15 people and no vent/skype. No DBM warnings or LFR Blizzard warnings. Your DMB warning was pressing caps lock, "SWAP TO THE FUCKING DRAGON," typing while in combat. Thank God they got rid of 10 man raids. That's not even a "raid," it's a "ladies night out" at a karaoke club drinking pomegranate martinis. Fuck that. Anyway, Blizzard is heading in the right direction.
    Send me your paypal account name, I'm sending you some money $$. Really though, you're right. Fast food delivery WoW has made it boring and less than satisfying.

    Back when, trying to get some random 60s to help me run through Deadmines, running though alliance territory where we would end up PvPing for an hour before they finally called legions of Stormwind groupies to kill us. Join a LFG now and you'd be lucky to survive one wipe without replacing somebody. I'm of the opinion that game experience would improve without these freeloaders. Yeah Blizz might lose some customers, but they would gain some back, like me. If your effort provides dividends, that's what matters. While that may happen now to a small degree, it's just quick a dopamine release and it's unsatisfying.
    Last edited by LaughterJones; 2014-04-26 at 07:04 PM.

  14. #354
    Fun times ahead! More and more it looks like Blizzard Store Features > Player Content.

  15. #355
    Just asking in regard of what he says: "As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

    Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away."

    I can get this when it's the first time you do that....But in his example he mentions the Tillers dailies - and if you have to do this shit 100 times on each alt - then you will get sick and tired to your bones of killing every single mob (and thus feeling "triumphant" as he says)!! I know I will hate it after a while at least!

  16. #356
    While I totally understand what they are doing with the flight thing and I respect them for that actually, cause now I get to enjoy my land mounts more. :3

    But to not include flying in the new content at all would be a bit much I think, seeing everything from above is one of my favorite appeals to the game, to be able to fly to the peak of a mountain, just to see the view. Sure mountain climbing is fun too, but what if you can't get further then half way up the mountain, it will make you really sad once it comes to pass. :/

  17. #357
    Stood in the Fire Eggwolls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarre Monkey View Post
    Can that dumb looking Raven even fly? I don't think the Raven Lord Reins could and it's based off that model.

    Also WOD won't have dailies, spongelord.

    Well you wouldn't have been able to fly in Draenor or anywhere PRIOR TO AN AREAS MAX LEVEL ANYWAY so I don't see what the big deal is?

    Get to level 60, bam, done with Azeroth, can now fly in Azeroth. When BC came out, couldn't fly until you were level 70, same with Wrath, same with Pandaria.

    You aren't being dis-serviced at all from past to present in the regard you show concern for. Besides it's those players who spam run dungeons anyway and questing is simply a way to get some additional XP during queue times which for tanks and healers isn't even a necessity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wat.

    When did Blizzard ever say mounted combat would be a thing?

    - - - Updated - - -

    They have multiple different teams, and a single mount model that has the benefit of a reused skeleton takes at most twenty minutes of Blizzard's time. There's no mechanics to sort out nor dialogue to write or voice acting to wait on. May be one or two new SFX.

    A raid tier requires balancing for current player gear level, calculations of varying degrees, several new models and rigorous testing. A mount requires a quick easy effort by some of the 3D modelling team and the rest is out of effected hands. It is a joke whether the ones saying it believe so or not. It's also not exceptionally humorous after the first time, let alone the fiftieth.
    Yes, the mount can fly.. Seriously? Also, I'm fairly certain there will be dailies in WoD, just not as much, spongelord. And even if there aren't a lot, there will still be content at max level that you'll probably have to do every day. Sorry I used a specific word like "dailies", rather than just end game content that you have to do (more than likely daily) to progress your character's gear/reputation/etc.. jeez.

    You also completely misunderstood what I was saying about players wanting to do their shit fast. I don't mean leveling. I mean capped toons doing their daily things. I want to be done with that stuff asap because I already invest hours of my time to raiding and LFR and flex. I'm pretty sure a majority of people at least do LFR every week on some capped toon or another. I'm perfectly fine not having flying in Draenor WHILE LEVELING, but if I never get to fly there...? I don't think so. And ultimately, they are still taking away a freedom that doesn't need to be messed with because they think the world needs to be experienced and explored THEIR WAY. How it's been for the past several expansions has been fine.

  18. #358
    While i love flying mounts i do agree with blizzard on it making it to easy to burn through content. But I also disagree cause ground mounts are way to fuking slow and the game is so big now, flight paths and ground mounting is way to much of a time consumer. I think it should just be like MOP and have flying not allowed until 100 and then just restrict certain zones from flying like they did timeless isle but allow us to fly to the areas and just make it a more way of getting from point A to point B. Also what would help is if they freaking speed up ground mounts to 150% or more.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla View Post
    You complained that you don't have the money to raf yourself. Hypocrite. This will be the first time I will not whip out my credit card asap. I will not pad their numbers.
    Lawlz no I'm not. Youre saying "omg store mounts rafs mounts blizzard sucking money for things i love. i should quit" I didnt say that. I expressed MY lack of money to buy something. i didnt say well im gonna quit cause of this, or bitch that its going to raf or store. just about my money issues.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

    When arguing online I like to use big words. Because by the time they're done googling it, they have forgotten what their point was.

  20. #360
    The only problem with this is the conflicting reports. The same x-pac they trim "needless" button bloat, cut CC, and simplify gameplay and rotations we hear that the reason flying wont be in draenor (at least temporarily) is that it's not necessarily a mechanic that makes for a "Good player" or interesting gameplay. These are the same reasons snapshotting is being removed. The inaccessibility of difficult mechanics to "worse players" is apparently looked down on by blizz's design team. And in the same breath we're given the edict that we can't fly for the same reasons, they don't want us to take the easy way out.

    I don't enjoy questing. I want to hit max level and do end game content as quickly as possible. I wasn't aware, or of the opinion, that questing quickly made me a worse player. Killed Garrosh before 99.8% of other WoW players and the speed at which I can level is being gated because Blizz devs think that if I did I wouldn't be as good.

    So at the same time we're being told that difficult mechanics are disheartening, we're being told that "easier" mechanics (because I'm not saying flying doesn't make content easier) should be discouraged, and eventually removed. So what's the design goal?

    People who want to take their time with quests, and experience everything, WILL. People who want to zoom through content, WILL. When we're comfortably raiding, or at the end of the tier, I will go back and experience everything I might've missed, but I really hate being forced into a slower experience.

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