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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Thevillain View Post
    I can get this when it's the first time you do that....But in his example he mentions the Tillers dailies - and if you have to do this shit 100 times on each alt - then you will get sick and tired to your bones of killing every single mob (and thus feeling "triumphant" as he says)!! I know I will hate it after a while at least!
    I totally agree on a personal level, but from a design standpoint they're focused on providing a quality experience for mains. In-game support for alts is still there (catchup mechanics), but it's not something they're really thinking about too much, for better or worse. Maybe they don't want to encourage alts too much because it usually involves doing the same activities over and over like you mentioned. I know when I played in vanilla it would have been a total pain to get alts up to speed, and maybe they're just getting back to their roots and seeing how it'd work. No flying is an extension of that concept.

    I know I'm not as eloquent as Bashiok, but I hope that makes sense. Alex is an old school dev, and I get what they're trying to do. They're valuing a more quality experience for mains higher than better support for alts. If I had to make my own "design decision" analogy here, it's sort of like how Watcher says they don't design their non-matchmaking raids around pugging. It's still possible to pug them, but they'd let it happen more organically on the player side, like the decision to level multiple alts. It's just their call on that, for the betterment of the game. Sometimes they have to make hard calls like this to extend the life or improve the quality of content.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-04-26 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Yes, the mount can fly.. Seriously? Also, I'm fairly certain there will be dailies in WoD, just not as much, spongelord.
    Well I'll hope anyway, that they stick by their word. It's quite possible they'll go back on it. I assumed the Raven Lord couldn't fly because the Anzu mount (from my memory of the PTR) could not, and it had a similar model and likely shares its skeleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    And even if there aren't a lot, there will still be content at max level that you'll probably have to do every day. Sorry I used a specific word like "dailies", rather than just end game content that you have to do (more than likely daily) to progress your character's gear/reputation/etc.. jeez.
    Lol kay, I probably won't do them if that ends up being the case, unless there's a good incentive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    You also completely misunderstood what I was saying about players wanting to do their shit fast. I don't mean leveling. I mean capped toons doing their daily things. I want to be done with that stuff asap because I already invest hours of my time to raiding and LFR and flex.
    I choose to not do dailies most of the time and as it stands I'm pretty well geared, do you need to do dailies or are you begrudgingly doing them because of a thing you want? But you're right, I did misunderstand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    I'm pretty sure a majority of people at least do LFR every week on some capped toon or another. I'm perfectly fine not having flying in Draenor WHILE LEVELING, but if I never get to fly there...? I don't think so.
    Then that's your decision and obviously I don't care enough to waste the energy to make you correct, it also isn't my place to tell you how to play the game, the majority of my focus has been people who end like it's the end of the world and are getting super-entitled about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    And ultimately, they are still taking away a freedom that doesn't need to be messed with because they think the world needs to be experienced and explored THEIR WAY. How it's been for the past several expansions has been fine.
    There's been so many good posts addressing this and I don't feel that me repeating it will make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Why I was never a sucker for buying crap from Blizz's store.. lol
    Lol, that makes two of us. I mean I buy race changes n faction xfers n' stuff but I've never had a hard on for mounts or bpets.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    As for your second part can totally understand sometimes how and why these things happen, but unfortunately as you know this is the WoW community you are talking about, as Obi Wan Kenobi once said "Mos Isely a wretched hive of scum and villainy." That is how I see some of the WoW community, though I have seen folks talk about other games communities being even worse..
    Yes, you're absolutely right, I recognize this and am continuing because it's fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    I think (and probably wrong) you would have thought Blizz would have learnt by now not to hype certain aspects of the game so much especially when it comes to gaming communities that will tear apart any bit of info they get and go either yay or boo.
    Feedback is important, no matter how negative or positive, and underneath it all there is some decent constructive critique among the hivewalls of insipid toxic filth the WoW player base is know for, though comparatively, there's far worse out there. It's probable that they regard the feedback worth the toxic minutia.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And even more so when it comes to the point that they can't make it happen for whatever reason.
    I think they are making pretty big gamble here, wisely they released the pre-order before this notion had gotten much attention so they've already made a large sum of money and success even before the expansion's beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The sig has nothing to do with being a internet "tough guy" (you might know what that means, I don't), it has to do with laws and people being under the impression that they are anonymous and can't be touched just because they have a screen in front of them.
    An internet tough guy is a dude who implies or makes threats based off of petty legal action, which is completely pointless to apply to me and I just sort of laud it as a cute barrier they put in place to avoid conflicts from the less knowledgeable. You're right, you could probably find out my IP, my name, my age and possibly my location, you'd then learn that being a resident of Australia, you'd have trouble locking me up, especially considering any charges would be 'trolling', which aren't counted as a legal offense and the police aren't going to fly over here to have a stern talk with someone who for the most part doesn't have much financial bearing just because some faggot on the internet got butthurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    You have been throwing a bit too many insults around to lecture someone else on morals, especially as you interpreted my sig as a threat to people which speaks volumes.
    It's an implied threat, I was merely making you aware of how the signature is viewed by most people, the fact that you've removed it shows you put some stock in what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Being called psychopath or sick = not something I'd be comfortable with.
    I would, I find it flattering, because I'm not really either of those things, but people calling me those things discloses the unfortunate reality that they've been proven illogical or inept in whatever it is they have challenged me on. Possibly the greatest gift in the universe is the smug confidence stolen from others when they find out that I was correct in whatever regard the whole time.

    This however, this thing I'm doing here isn't to prove a point, you can't logically argue with the majority of Wow's Rabid userbase. Upsetting them however, isn't difficult. And upsetting such swine is what I refer to as "necessary antagonism." I suppose that could be viewed as psychopathy, huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazozourus View Post
    At least Rorcanna chased away Bizarre Monkey guy so no more insults. I would prefer flying to stay after you reach max level for convenience and admiring beauty of New Draenor.
    I already have a reputation? Good golly, don't flatter me! Also Rorcanna didn't chase me away, I just wanted to do something else and decided I would resume this later. I'm pretty sure chasing me away wasn't even his intent.
    Last edited by Bizarre Monkey; 2014-04-26 at 09:51 PM.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Huh. New store mount?
    Probably going to be colored red/blue for whomever loses Azeroth choppers.
    Pokemon Y Friend Code: 4527-7566-5852. PM if you add me.
    Friend Safari: Steel, Metang, Mawile, and Klefki.

  4. #364
    It'll be RAF and there's a good chance it'll eventually come out before the August 6.0 systems patch. I believe the profession dev over Twitter said Spirit of Harmony might become BoE/BoA "even earlier" than 6.0, so we might get a small patch like this, sort of like the Blizzcon one that added the pet. Nothing major.

    They know players will start resubbing when 6.0 is imminent, and maybe even do their WoD preorder at that point. The included 90 might entice them to RAF themselves for another 90, which they can transfer over to their main account with the help of a GM, and they'll get a mount of it. Still pricy buying all those other xpacs though, but maybe we'll see another sale on those. So, 5.4.(8?) in July with the new RaF, SoH change, among other minor things, accompanied by a July sale on the previous xpacs, which will encourage players to their RAF themselves or get some friends back into the game for WoD.

    And so the full timeline would look like this:

    July: 5.4.8 and old WoW xpacs sale
    August: systems patch
    Sept 23rd (or 30th bumping this all out a week): WoD launch
    Sept 30th: Highmaul opens
    Oct 7th: Mythic Highmaul
    Nov 7th-8th: Blizzcon
    Nov 11th: Blackrock Foundry opens
    Nov 18th: Mythic Blackrock Foundry

    The tricky part is definitely pinpointing how to work the one month Foundry delay around Blizzcon, and it would not surprise me to see them push it into December instead, especially if they release WoD into the first part of October. The two things I'm confident about are WoD will come out on or before October 14th, and that Highmaul will come out before Blizzcon, and Foundry after Blizzcon.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-04-26 at 10:02 PM.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    It'll be RAF and there's a good chance it'll eventually come out before the August 6.0 systems patch. I believe the profession dev over Twitter said Spirit of Harmony might become BoE/BoA "even earlier" than 6.0, so we might get a small patch like this, sort of like the Blizzcon one that added the pet. Nothing major.
    I'm probably more excited than I should be about the changes to spirit of harmony, as a black smith, I want to make weapons for my alts, but oh damn, turns out I need STUFF! Stuff that as a boosted level 90 I don't have and don't feel like farming, now if I could transfer them between characters, it'd all be well! I think the model for spirit of harmony was great, just the soulbound thing not so much, there were some professions that barely needed them (like Alchemy) whilst others need loads (Blacksmithing)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    They know players will start resubbing when 6.0 is imminent, and maybe even do their WoD preorder at that point.
    A lot have done it already, myself included.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    The included 90 might entice them to RAF themselves for another 90, which they can transfer over to their main account with the help of a GM, and they'll get a mount of it. Still pricy buying all those other xpacs though
    I usually wait for Christmas specials. Where each is like, $5 multipled by current Xpac count + $20 for the newest one.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    but maybe we'll see another sale on those.
    That's likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    So, 5.4.(8?) in July with the new RaF, SoH change, among other minor things, accompanied by a July sale on the previous xpacs.
    No stones set, but I think your predictions are probably accurate, if rough.

    I'll worry about it when time comes. Patience is a virtue I possess in spades. I am an easily entertained man.

  6. #366
    I editted in sort of a rough timeline for folks if it helps, just a personal guess of course so take it with a grain of salt. Foundry getting pushed into December is just as likely as it coming out right after Blizzcon (they get to hype it there either way). I know the bleeding edge wouldn't want progression to center around Thanksgiving nor having to think about not going. If I'm not mistaken that's what happened with heroic toes anyway. (2 days before thanksgiving)
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-04-26 at 10:07 PM.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelric70 View Post
    When TBC was new, the FULL game required questing from the ground til L70 (L68 for druids and let me vouch for the fact that flightform felt like cheating for 2 levels). When LK was new, the FULL game required grounded questing until L78 and they used lots of caves, tunnels and buildings to force ground questing in many of the upper level quest areas. Cata was not grounded other than as a gold sink and questing was much easier in some areas because of it. MoP was forced grounding until 90 as well and many quests become trivial as soon as the toon obtains flight.
    I agree with you on this this..If you read my old post I mention that ground mounts is no problem for me while leveling to 100. MY BIG problem is that once I'm done I better have the choice to use my flying mount at 100...I saw the world, did your silly quests no give me freedom. The other thing is that Blizzard's idea of questing is irrelevant to the game. It poses no purpose at all to the story. That is why many players leveled there characters up through professions and battlegrounds. Now if they had a decent story mode like SWTOR then it would be worth questing. But I'm really tired of quests like killing 100 boars to get 1 tusk crap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    Well, in their fortress example "flying" could be easily substituted with "stealth". Does this mean they are removing this mechaincs from rogues and druids in WoD? One would logically assume so, because it does exactly the same "wrong" thing as flying...
    Exactly...Its dumb...

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Exactly. All of my enjoyment fighting my way through that fort to my assassination target is going to be ruined when before I get to the boss someone sweeps in on their flying mount and steals my kill. I picked up the quest half an hour ago and have just gotten to the boss. The other guy picked up the quest 2 minutes ago and hasn't put in an ounce of effort.

    Whether flying is removed or kept in, it isn't a choice. Or at least not a viable choice. Either there's no flying, or there is the option between flying and gimping yourself.
    Oh my goodness gracious. The horror! Its like people don't remember Seth Halls stealth runs (including the ones pining for the fjords of vanilla wow). "OMG, those damn rogues and druids! Farming for gear or the raven mount/druid flying quest without killing the all the bosses!". Of course, IIRC, blizz tweaked the dungeon enough to end those stealth runs.

    Its like people never fought through 20+ mobs for 5minutes to get to a quest boss/target/whatever only to see that a rogue/druid just killed him before you and now you're waiting for x minutes for a respawn. All the while hoping no one else shows up and tags him before you, or you can get a group with them or the other faction doesn't show up and steal it. OMG, FLYING MOUNTS ARE HORRIBLE AND GAME BREAKING!!!!!1111 WE MUST BAN THEMZ! IMMERSIONZ!

    Have you people never flown as a druid in flight form over the mountains and valleys, enjoying the views?

    The blizzard devs and the no flying crowd have lost their ever flippin minds with this nonsense.

    As for store mounts, who cares. They can't take that much resources to make. Buy them or don't. The only one I've ever thought worth the money would be a two+ seater that could fly, thus avoiding the RAF requirements. Given the WoD design statements made by blizz, that would now be a bad investment I think though.

    For me, the main choice now is, is the pre-order with free 90 power level service worth the risks given the no flying nonsense and some of the healer design changes in WoD (aka Draenor part 2: Cataclysm Crazyness).

  9. #369
    I like to ask 2 simple questions?
    Who goes and levels up in Vashj'ir?
    What about playing Isle of Thunder?
    Why or Why not?

  10. #370
    First thought on that mount - dang its really sweet looking. Second thought....how much are they charging for it. I guess I'm just nostalgic for wow prior to the microtransaction age. I haven't heard anything official about how to get it (/crossesfingers), but sadly I think it will required some extra cash.

  11. #371
    I'm glad I held off and did not preorder the next expac. Sub ran out months ago. I knew this was their intent from the first leak of the rumors.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    I like to ask 2 simple questions?
    Who goes and levels up in Vashj'ir?
    What about playing Isle of Thunder?
    Why or Why not?
    1. I used to in Cataclysm. I think I went there on alts 2-4 just to open the zone up and get the water mount. 5th one I probably skipped it. Every character I've taken from 80 since then has skipped it. Its not horrible but its one of those zones that I've never completely finished on any character.

    2. Sure, for legendary questline stuff/rep.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    I agree with you on this this..If you read my old post I mention that ground mounts is no problem for me while leveling to 100. MY BIG problem is that once I'm done I better have the choice to use my flying mount at 100...I saw the world, did your silly quests no give me freedom. The other thing is that Blizzard's idea of questing is irrelevant to the game. It poses no purpose at all to the story. That is why many players leveled there characters up through professions and battlegrounds. Now if they had a decent story mode like SWTOR then it would be worth questing. But I'm really tired of quests like killing 100 boars to get 1 tusk crap.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Exactly...Its dumb...
    With stealth though you're still grounded and not as fast as with flying mounts. Again. I see their Point. They made it sound loud and clear in the Post. Anyone who bitches, just bitches BECAUSE. And then again -> The Focus needs to be more on a Main Character. Many people have alts because of Professions. With Garrisons they effectively up your Professions from 2 .. to 4-6. That definitely shoots down all those useless Profession Alts. WoW is about Endgame. And has been about Endgame for a long time. The Argument "I've been there and done that, now give me flight for everything else" doesn't hold any water, because they clearly want to keep the Focus on Endgame. And WoD-specific stuff (thus Endgame) can't be hurt by No-flight, because it's SPECIFICALLY designed for no-flight for now. People need to realize that Alts and leveling overall aren't Endgame. Even if you personally like it more than Raiding/PvP or whatever. Leveling is no longer AS relevant. Thus, people who like to Alt because they like leveling over Endgame aren't taken into Account on this one, rightfully so. Whether you have flight or not, you are still doing the same. If you find that tedious, you shouldn't be leveling as many Characters at all. And if you don't like leveling in General, why bother? Professions? Alright, do something for it. Or use the Garrison Plots for it?!

  14. #374
    removing flying will only add extra unneeded tediousness back to end game content. It will either force people into cities to que more, or cause people to stop playing altogether. AI mobs were never a real challenge, other than the monstrous enemies that had the ability to 1-3 shot you. (and getting attacked by those was an annoyance more than a sense of danger) I also need to point out that the argument about world pvp is also going to blow up in their faces. Flying didnt kill world pvp, the introduction of instanced pvp did that. People who really care about pvp are going to focus on arenas and battlegrounds, the places where pvp is rewarded. what is left out in the world are gankers and sociopaths that just enjoy making the lives of people trying to quest miserable. The only thing flying did was allow a person to escape and avoid gankers and campers. If you take away the ability to escape gankers and campers this will only add to the number of people avoiding the world altogether and just queing in cities instead of going out into the world.

    Immersion and enjoyment of world environment are completely subjective things, if a person enjoys certain things they will be sure to take the time to enjoy them. Its like art, if a person enjoys art they will go to museums and look at art. But if a person doesnt like art then a person wont go look at art. If you then force them to look at the art, they arent going to magically start enjoying the art, they are just going to stop being your friend because you keep forcing them into doing things they dont enjoy.

    This is what is going to happen in the game, by taking away flying and telling people who enjoy flying what they should enjoy, it will not make them enjoy it, it will only make them annoyed, and it will take away their enjoyment of the game. If they dont enjoy it, then they will quit playing it. In the end, its those people who vote with their wallets that will decide the design future of the game. All you people who keep saying 'good riddance of the whiners' fail to understand that its the people who leave and vote with their wallets that will ultimately define what design choices are implemented. Sure, the blizzard dev's might have a vision but they have to answer to the board of directors, and when the board see's players quitting (loss of revenue) theyre gonna say 'fix this or we will find somebody who will'
    Last edited by ratbear; 2014-04-27 at 01:37 AM.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Shridevi View Post
    I think a lot of people here didn't play vanilla WoW.
    Huh. I started in January 2005 and your post was still one of the most painful things I've ever read on this site.

    If you wanted to go to Ironforge to Felwood to farm herbs, or from Molten Core to Azshara to get Hydraxian Waterlord waters, it took 30 minutes just to travel.
    Uh, no. It did not. It just took me 11 minutes to get from Ironforge to Felwood using only a ground mount and flight paths. 7 minutes of that was AFKing on a flight path.

    And guess what? It was fucking awesome.
    Forgive me for being very skeptical of the notion that players were blown away by the amount of traveling you had to do. ESPECIALLY after years of doing it. I think you just might be succumbing to nostalgia here.

    Flying immediately fucked up the game.
    Flying was added (at the request of pretty much everyone, mind you) at the beginning of Burning Crusade (Jan 16 2007). Both subscriber count and general opinion of the game disagree with you here.

    This was when the game was good.
    Once again, I'm getting the impression that you have the nostalgia goggles strapped on a little too tightly.

    I didn't even realize there was content anymore. When I level an alt I spam dungeons, about half the group sucks ass in the dungeons, yet you still easily clear it without wiping and without using any brain power whatsoever. You don't CC shit. A run lasts 20 minutes and mobs don't respawn if you take 2 hours like in Blackrock Depths. No one on a pvp realm is going to level up with quests. I forgot they even existed, except for those 3 first days of the expansion it takes to max level. Then you fly over shit. Even if you aren't 90 you just pay someone with a 2-seater mount to fly you places. That's horse shit.
    It's like you completely forgot this topic was about flying for the first half of this paragraph but then realized that you were going wildly off-topic towards the end.
    In vanilla wow, we still flew over shit. We just used flight paths instead of mounts we could directly control ourselves.

    The game was infinitely better, and LEGITIMATELY addictive in vanilla.
    Once again....just mmmiiigghhtt be a little overly-nostalgic.

    My raid leader got a divorce over the game. It took a buttload of time to do anything, but it made the results incredible. I would lead UBRS groups for 8 hours a day, hard as SHIT with respawns, with 15 people and no vent/skype. No DBM warnings or LFR Blizzard warnings. Your DMB warning was pressing caps lock, "SWAP TO THE FUCKING DRAGON," typing while in combat. Thank God they got rid of 10 man raids. That's not even a "raid," it's a "ladies night out" at a karaoke club drinking pomegranate martinis. Fuck that. Anyway, Blizzard is heading in the right direction.
    Voice chat programs existed back then, you know. So did boss mods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shridevi View Post
    FYI I did play since the game's release, and on stress tests before release, and yeah I'm being absurd a bit for some light comedy.
    Forgive me for not laughing.

    People in dungeons do suck. I'm a healer, so I see everything. I look at the damage meters. (By the way, I have the time to do this because healing is ridiculously easy.) First I feel angry that the hunter's top damage is autoshot and pet attacks. Then I feel guilty at myself because he might be 12 years old. Then I feel confused, angry at the confusion, and want to boot him. Then I realize the dungeon is 20 minutes long (30 with their dps), so I dps while healing, and try to feel good about carrying them. No one CCs. No one stops to drink. No one even types 90% of the time, because no strategy is required, unless they're fighting over loot.
    Semi-legitimate argument, too bad you a) said almost exactly the same thing in your first post and b) it doesn't relate to flying at all.

    Also, regarding ground mounts in vanilla. At level 40 you had to farm gold just to get the basic mount. Then at 60, if you had the gold for an epic mount (the mounts everyone is complaining about using in WoD), you might as well run for senate. People wrote conspiracy posts about your being an illuminati, for the amount of fucking gold it required. You either ninja'd an epic and sold it, got some rare world drop, or won a BOE in a top raiding guild which no one needed.
    Yes, it was a lot of money. It's not like no-one had one, though. Just go mine some thorium for a while and you would have it in not too much time.

    If you had a 100% speed mount, with a second set of gear with carrot on a stick, mithril spur boots, riding gloves, you were not only successful but smart as fuck. Those people are CEOs now, that's why there are less subscribers. When you got that mount you didn't even question that it appeared from another dimension under your ass, it's literally looking a gift horse in the mouth.
    Doing some gathering for a while sure does take some extreme cognitive ability, right?

    If WoW mounts were neutral mobs in an actual place you could click on and ride, that would make so much more sense. The point is realism, valid logic which doesn't have to be sound logic.

    Flying serpents don't exist in real life. But if they do exist in a fake world they have to come from somewhere. Flying serpents don't just fuck each other during the last 2 weeks of a pvp season, have abortions if they go over the number of glad spots, and instantly make their children grow up and appear under the asses of new gladiators. Blizzard doesn't need to make an entire zone where horses bang each other, but a nice step would be getting rid of flying mounts.
    If you can't take yourself seriously, you can understand why I won't either.

  16. #376
    "Making a fun game makes people want to play the game, not nickle and diming their time. Was the game an insulting disservice to you as an adult before flying existed?"

    I'm wondering where paid 90's fit in here.

  17. #377

    How i feel about this changes...


  18. #378
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    It's gonna be a store mount, I guarantee it.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    "Making a fun game makes people want to play the game, not nickle and diming their time. Was the game an insulting disservice to you as an adult before flying existed?"

    I'm wondering where paid 90's fit in here.
    Right where they're not max level characters any more and are free to start exploring Draenor which is where blizzard wants us to be.

  20. #380
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    It's gonna be a store mount, I guarantee it.
    Except it's not....
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

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