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  1. #341
    I unsubbed last week because our guild had screwed up lockouts for three week (lockouts were not resetting for two healers and myself) and Blizzard wouldn't do anything to help us in order to play the game. But if I hadn't unsubbed this news of no flying does nothing to to make me want to try the next expansion. When WoD was announced at Blizzcon I was really excited for the setting but almost every time they release some gameplay related tid bit I can't help but feel less and less excited.

    I won't go out into the world if there is no flying. I imagine 'if' i do get the xpac I will spend much more time sitting around in a city queing for things than I ever did. I could go on and write about how this is just going backwards and post some long thought out rant/post about the changes that are being made that don't sound fun but I'll just leave it at this. As someone who does as many achievements as I can in this game I won't be checking rare spawns in different zones without flying. I won't gather resources. If I play at all I would likely finish the achievements in each zone before and never doing the quest again on any alts. If I stick around or comeback I'll be that guy in the raid who has to be summoned.

  2. #342
    ^ every expansion is wrought with disappointment because they announce it way the fuck too early and end up stripping down a lot of the announced features just to get it released before rabid fans raze blizzard hq.

    The solution: They need to quit announcing things so damn early. Like with a completely new property like ESO, you can announce it way early, because it's shiny and new. But with WoW people are already vested; false promises are worse for business than impatient customers.

  3. #343
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    Looks awesome, i hope this is a RaF mount

  4. #344

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Hard View Post
    I hope they will remove flying mounts entirely.
    Hear hear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shridevi View Post
    I think a lot of people here didn't play vanilla WoW. If you wanted to go to Ironforge to Felwood to farm herbs, or from Molten Core to Azshara to get Hydraxian Waterlord waters, it took 30 minutes just to travel. And guess what? It was fucking awesome. Flying immediately fucked up the game. The only time flying was good was when a flight gryphon glitched and you bounced around uncontrollably at 8000% speed.

    You want to go from IF to Dire Maul? Stand at the back of the boat with an Azure Silk Belt. Because guess what? The boat just fucking sank, and you were ready for it. This was when the game was good.

    I didn't even realize there was content anymore. When I level an alt I spam dungeons, about half the group sucks ass in the dungeons, yet you still easily clear it without wiping and without using any brain power whatsoever. You don't CC shit. A run lasts 20 minutes and mobs don't respawn if you take 2 hours like in Blackrock Depths. No one on a pvp realm is going to level up with quests. I forgot they even existed, except for those 3 first days of the expansion it takes to max level. Then you fly over shit. Even if you aren't 90 you just pay someone with a 2-seater mount to fly you places. That's horse shit.

    Imagine playing Final Fantasy, 6 for example, and the goddamn airship appears immediately. Even when you did get the airship at the end there was a boss that could aggro and wipe you out of nowhere. I would suck a dick for a chocobo in those games. It was extremely gratifying, especially when the chocobo song plays when you're riding on a big flamboyant bird. That's called a real ground mount, and it's all we should be able to use.

    Even that I would debate, because the damn WoW mount comes out of nowhere. A horse just diffuses out of a cloud under your ass. You don't "summon" shit, like in Zelda 64 where the horse is an actual sentient being which runs to you from the horizon. Blizzard could even go a step further and allow you 2 abilities to use on a ground mount. Aimed shot or crackling jade lightning. Why the fuck not, knights used to do it. What knights didn't do was ride on a giant flying monkey with a venomous stinger (which doesn't sting) all the way across to America, land on Hiawatha's tent, 1shot him with stampede, feign death then fly back to Wales after defeating an entire civilization. Fuck that shit.

    The game was infinitely better, and LEGITIMATELY addictive in vanilla. My raid leader got a divorce over the game. It took a buttload of time to do anything, but it made the results incredible. I would lead UBRS groups for 8 hours a day, hard as SHIT with respawns, with 15 people and no vent/skype. No DBM warnings or LFR Blizzard warnings. Your DMB warning was pressing caps lock, "SWAP TO THE FUCKING DRAGON," typing while in combat. Thank God they got rid of 10 man raids. That's not even a "raid," it's a "ladies night out" at a karaoke club drinking pomegranate martinis. Fuck that. Anyway, Blizzard is heading in the right direction.
    Send me your paypal account name, I'm sending you some money $$. Really though, you're right. Fast food delivery WoW has made it boring and less than satisfying.

    Back when, trying to get some random 60s to help me run through Deadmines, running though alliance territory where we would end up PvPing for an hour before they finally called legions of Stormwind groupies to kill us. Join a LFG now and you'd be lucky to survive one wipe without replacing somebody. I'm of the opinion that game experience would improve without these freeloaders. Yeah Blizz might lose some customers, but they would gain some back, like me. If your effort provides dividends, that's what matters. While that may happen now to a small degree, it's just quick a dopamine release and it's unsatisfying.

  5. #345
    Fun times ahead! More and more it looks like Blizzard Store Features > Player Content.

  6. #346
    Just asking in regard of what he says: "As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

    Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away."

    I can get this when it's the first time you do that....But in his example he mentions the Tillers dailies - and if you have to do this shit 100 times on each alt - then you will get sick and tired to your bones of killing every single mob (and thus feeling "triumphant" as he says)!! I know I will hate it after a while at least!

  7. #347
    While I totally understand what they are doing with the flight thing and I respect them for that actually, cause now I get to enjoy my land mounts more. :3

    But to not include flying in the new content at all would be a bit much I think, seeing everything from above is one of my favorite appeals to the game, to be able to fly to the peak of a mountain, just to see the view. Sure mountain climbing is fun too, but what if you can't get further then half way up the mountain, it will make you really sad once it comes to pass. :/

  8. #348
    Stood in the Fire Eggwolls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarre Monkey View Post
    Can that dumb looking Raven even fly? I don't think the Raven Lord Reins could and it's based off that model.

    Also WOD won't have dailies, spongelord.

    Well you wouldn't have been able to fly in Draenor or anywhere PRIOR TO AN AREAS MAX LEVEL ANYWAY so I don't see what the big deal is?

    Get to level 60, bam, done with Azeroth, can now fly in Azeroth. When BC came out, couldn't fly until you were level 70, same with Wrath, same with Pandaria.

    You aren't being dis-serviced at all from past to present in the regard you show concern for. Besides it's those players who spam run dungeons anyway and questing is simply a way to get some additional XP during queue times which for tanks and healers isn't even a necessity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wat.

    When did Blizzard ever say mounted combat would be a thing?

    - - - Updated - - -

    They have multiple different teams, and a single mount model that has the benefit of a reused skeleton takes at most twenty minutes of Blizzard's time. There's no mechanics to sort out nor dialogue to write or voice acting to wait on. May be one or two new SFX.

    A raid tier requires balancing for current player gear level, calculations of varying degrees, several new models and rigorous testing. A mount requires a quick easy effort by some of the 3D modelling team and the rest is out of effected hands. It is a joke whether the ones saying it believe so or not. It's also not exceptionally humorous after the first time, let alone the fiftieth.
    Yes, the mount can fly.. Seriously? Also, I'm fairly certain there will be dailies in WoD, just not as much, spongelord. And even if there aren't a lot, there will still be content at max level that you'll probably have to do every day. Sorry I used a specific word like "dailies", rather than just end game content that you have to do (more than likely daily) to progress your character's gear/reputation/etc.. jeez.

    You also completely misunderstood what I was saying about players wanting to do their shit fast. I don't mean leveling. I mean capped toons doing their daily things. I want to be done with that stuff asap because I already invest hours of my time to raiding and LFR and flex. I'm pretty sure a majority of people at least do LFR every week on some capped toon or another. I'm perfectly fine not having flying in Draenor WHILE LEVELING, but if I never get to fly there...? I don't think so. And ultimately, they are still taking away a freedom that doesn't need to be messed with because they think the world needs to be experienced and explored THEIR WAY. How it's been for the past several expansions has been fine.

  9. #349
    While i love flying mounts i do agree with blizzard on it making it to easy to burn through content. But I also disagree cause ground mounts are way to fuking slow and the game is so big now, flight paths and ground mounting is way to much of a time consumer. I think it should just be like MOP and have flying not allowed until 100 and then just restrict certain zones from flying like they did timeless isle but allow us to fly to the areas and just make it a more way of getting from point A to point B. Also what would help is if they freaking speed up ground mounts to 150% or more.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla View Post
    You complained that you don't have the money to raf yourself. Hypocrite. This will be the first time I will not whip out my credit card asap. I will not pad their numbers.
    Lawlz no I'm not. Youre saying "omg store mounts rafs mounts blizzard sucking money for things i love. i should quit" I didnt say that. I expressed MY lack of money to buy something. i didnt say well im gonna quit cause of this, or bitch that its going to raf or store. just about my money issues.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  11. #351
    The only problem with this is the conflicting reports. The same x-pac they trim "needless" button bloat, cut CC, and simplify gameplay and rotations we hear that the reason flying wont be in draenor (at least temporarily) is that it's not necessarily a mechanic that makes for a "Good player" or interesting gameplay. These are the same reasons snapshotting is being removed. The inaccessibility of difficult mechanics to "worse players" is apparently looked down on by blizz's design team. And in the same breath we're given the edict that we can't fly for the same reasons, they don't want us to take the easy way out.

    I don't enjoy questing. I want to hit max level and do end game content as quickly as possible. I wasn't aware, or of the opinion, that questing quickly made me a worse player. Killed Garrosh before 99.8% of other WoW players and the speed at which I can level is being gated because Blizz devs think that if I did I wouldn't be as good.

    So at the same time we're being told that difficult mechanics are disheartening, we're being told that "easier" mechanics (because I'm not saying flying doesn't make content easier) should be discouraged, and eventually removed. So what's the design goal?

    People who want to take their time with quests, and experience everything, WILL. People who want to zoom through content, WILL. When we're comfortably raiding, or at the end of the tier, I will go back and experience everything I might've missed, but I really hate being forced into a slower experience.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Thevillain View Post
    I can get this when it's the first time you do that....But in his example he mentions the Tillers dailies - and if you have to do this shit 100 times on each alt - then you will get sick and tired to your bones of killing every single mob (and thus feeling "triumphant" as he says)!! I know I will hate it after a while at least!
    I totally agree on a personal level, but from a design standpoint they're focused on providing a quality experience for mains. In-game support for alts is still there (catchup mechanics), but it's not something they're really thinking about too much, for better or worse. Maybe they don't want to encourage alts too much because it usually involves doing the same activities over and over like you mentioned. I know when I played in vanilla it would have been a total pain to get alts up to speed, and maybe they're just getting back to their roots and seeing how it'd work. No flying is an extension of that concept.

    I know I'm not as eloquent as Bashiok, but I hope that makes sense. Alex is an old school dev, and I get what they're trying to do. They're valuing a more quality experience for mains higher than better support for alts. If I had to make my own "design decision" analogy here, it's sort of like how Watcher says they don't design their non-matchmaking raids around pugging. It's still possible to pug them, but they'd let it happen more organically on the player side, like the decision to level multiple alts. It's just their call on that, for the betterment of the game. Sometimes they have to make hard calls like this to extend the life or improve the quality of content.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Yes, the mount can fly.. Seriously? Also, I'm fairly certain there will be dailies in WoD, just not as much, spongelord.
    Well I'll hope anyway, that they stick by their word. It's quite possible they'll go back on it. I assumed the Raven Lord couldn't fly because the Anzu mount (from my memory of the PTR) could not, and it had a similar model and likely shares its skeleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    And even if there aren't a lot, there will still be content at max level that you'll probably have to do every day. Sorry I used a specific word like "dailies", rather than just end game content that you have to do (more than likely daily) to progress your character's gear/reputation/etc.. jeez.
    Lol kay, I probably won't do them if that ends up being the case, unless there's a good incentive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    You also completely misunderstood what I was saying about players wanting to do their shit fast. I don't mean leveling. I mean capped toons doing their daily things. I want to be done with that stuff asap because I already invest hours of my time to raiding and LFR and flex.
    I choose to not do dailies most of the time and as it stands I'm pretty well geared, do you need to do dailies or are you begrudgingly doing them because of a thing you want? But you're right, I did misunderstand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    I'm pretty sure a majority of people at least do LFR every week on some capped toon or another. I'm perfectly fine not having flying in Draenor WHILE LEVELING, but if I never get to fly there...? I don't think so.
    Then that's your decision and obviously I don't care enough to waste the energy to make you correct, it also isn't my place to tell you how to play the game, the majority of my focus has been people who end like it's the end of the world and are getting super-entitled about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    And ultimately, they are still taking away a freedom that doesn't need to be messed with because they think the world needs to be experienced and explored THEIR WAY. How it's been for the past several expansions has been fine.
    There's been so many good posts addressing this and I don't feel that me repeating it will make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Why I was never a sucker for buying crap from Blizz's store.. lol
    Lol, that makes two of us. I mean I buy race changes n faction xfers n' stuff but I've never had a hard on for mounts or bpets.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    As for your second part can totally understand sometimes how and why these things happen, but unfortunately as you know this is the WoW community you are talking about, as Obi Wan Kenobi once said "Mos Isely a wretched hive of scum and villainy." That is how I see some of the WoW community, though I have seen folks talk about other games communities being even worse..
    Yes, you're absolutely right, I recognize this and am continuing because it's fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    I think (and probably wrong) you would have thought Blizz would have learnt by now not to hype certain aspects of the game so much especially when it comes to gaming communities that will tear apart any bit of info they get and go either yay or boo.
    Feedback is important, no matter how negative or positive, and underneath it all there is some decent constructive critique among the hivewalls of insipid toxic filth the WoW player base is know for, though comparatively, there's far worse out there. It's probable that they regard the feedback worth the toxic minutia.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And even more so when it comes to the point that they can't make it happen for whatever reason.
    I think they are making pretty big gamble here, wisely they released the pre-order before this notion had gotten much attention so they've already made a large sum of money and success even before the expansion's beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The sig has nothing to do with being a internet "tough guy" (you might know what that means, I don't), it has to do with laws and people being under the impression that they are anonymous and can't be touched just because they have a screen in front of them.
    An internet tough guy is a dude who implies or makes threats based off of petty legal action, which is completely pointless to apply to me and I just sort of laud it as a cute barrier they put in place to avoid conflicts from the less knowledgeable. You're right, you could probably find out my IP, my name, my age and possibly my location, you'd then learn that being a resident of Australia, you'd have trouble locking me up, especially considering any charges would be 'trolling', which aren't counted as a legal offense and the police aren't going to fly over here to have a stern talk with someone who for the most part doesn't have much financial bearing just because some faggot on the internet got butthurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    You have been throwing a bit too many insults around to lecture someone else on morals, especially as you interpreted my sig as a threat to people which speaks volumes.
    It's an implied threat, I was merely making you aware of how the signature is viewed by most people, the fact that you've removed it shows you put some stock in what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Being called psychopath or sick = not something I'd be comfortable with.
    I would, I find it flattering, because I'm not really either of those things, but people calling me those things discloses the unfortunate reality that they've been proven illogical or inept in whatever it is they have challenged me on. Possibly the greatest gift in the universe is the smug confidence stolen from others when they find out that I was correct in whatever regard the whole time.

    This however, this thing I'm doing here isn't to prove a point, you can't logically argue with the majority of Wow's Rabid userbase. Upsetting them however, isn't difficult. And upsetting such swine is what I refer to as "necessary antagonism." I suppose that could be viewed as psychopathy, huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazozourus View Post
    At least Rorcanna chased away Bizarre Monkey guy so no more insults. I would prefer flying to stay after you reach max level for convenience and admiring beauty of New Draenor.
    I already have a reputation? Good golly, don't flatter me! Also Rorcanna didn't chase me away, I just wanted to do something else and decided I would resume this later. I'm pretty sure chasing me away wasn't even his intent.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Huh. New store mount?
    Probably going to be colored red/blue for whomever loses Azeroth choppers.
    Nintendo 3DS Friend Code: 4527-7566-5852. PM if you add me.

  15. #355
    It'll be RAF and there's a good chance it'll eventually come out before the August 6.0 systems patch. I believe the profession dev over Twitter said Spirit of Harmony might become BoE/BoA "even earlier" than 6.0, so we might get a small patch like this, sort of like the Blizzcon one that added the pet. Nothing major.

    They know players will start resubbing when 6.0 is imminent, and maybe even do their WoD preorder at that point. The included 90 might entice them to RAF themselves for another 90, which they can transfer over to their main account with the help of a GM, and they'll get a mount of it. Still pricy buying all those other xpacs though, but maybe we'll see another sale on those. So, 5.4.(8?) in July with the new RaF, SoH change, among other minor things, accompanied by a July sale on the previous xpacs, which will encourage players to their RAF themselves or get some friends back into the game for WoD.

    And so the full timeline would look like this:

    July: 5.4.8 and old WoW xpacs sale
    August: systems patch
    Sept 23rd (or 30th bumping this all out a week): WoD launch
    Sept 30th: Highmaul opens
    Oct 7th: Mythic Highmaul
    Nov 7th-8th: Blizzcon
    Nov 11th: Blackrock Foundry opens
    Nov 18th: Mythic Blackrock Foundry

    The tricky part is definitely pinpointing how to work the one month Foundry delay around Blizzcon, and it would not surprise me to see them push it into December instead, especially if they release WoD into the first part of October. The two things I'm confident about are WoD will come out on or before October 14th, and that Highmaul will come out before Blizzcon, and Foundry after Blizzcon.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    It'll be RAF and there's a good chance it'll eventually come out before the August 6.0 systems patch. I believe the profession dev over Twitter said Spirit of Harmony might become BoE/BoA "even earlier" than 6.0, so we might get a small patch like this, sort of like the Blizzcon one that added the pet. Nothing major.
    I'm probably more excited than I should be about the changes to spirit of harmony, as a black smith, I want to make weapons for my alts, but oh damn, turns out I need STUFF! Stuff that as a boosted level 90 I don't have and don't feel like farming, now if I could transfer them between characters, it'd all be well! I think the model for spirit of harmony was great, just the soulbound thing not so much, there were some professions that barely needed them (like Alchemy) whilst others need loads (Blacksmithing)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    They know players will start resubbing when 6.0 is imminent, and maybe even do their WoD preorder at that point.
    A lot have done it already, myself included.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    The included 90 might entice them to RAF themselves for another 90, which they can transfer over to their main account with the help of a GM, and they'll get a mount of it. Still pricy buying all those other xpacs though
    I usually wait for Christmas specials. Where each is like, $5 multipled by current Xpac count + $20 for the newest one.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    but maybe we'll see another sale on those.
    That's likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    So, 5.4.(8?) in July with the new RaF, SoH change, among other minor things, accompanied by a July sale on the previous xpacs.
    No stones set, but I think your predictions are probably accurate, if rough.

    I'll worry about it when time comes. Patience is a virtue I possess in spades. I am an easily entertained man.

  17. #357
    I editted in sort of a rough timeline for folks if it helps, just a personal guess of course so take it with a grain of salt. Foundry getting pushed into December is just as likely as it coming out right after Blizzcon (they get to hype it there either way). I know the bleeding edge wouldn't want progression to center around Thanksgiving nor having to think about not going. If I'm not mistaken that's what happened with heroic toes anyway. (2 days before thanksgiving)

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelric70 View Post
    When TBC was new, the FULL game required questing from the ground til L70 (L68 for druids and let me vouch for the fact that flightform felt like cheating for 2 levels). When LK was new, the FULL game required grounded questing until L78 and they used lots of caves, tunnels and buildings to force ground questing in many of the upper level quest areas. Cata was not grounded other than as a gold sink and questing was much easier in some areas because of it. MoP was forced grounding until 90 as well and many quests become trivial as soon as the toon obtains flight.
    I agree with you on this this..If you read my old post I mention that ground mounts is no problem for me while leveling to 100. MY BIG problem is that once I'm done I better have the choice to use my flying mount at 100...I saw the world, did your silly quests no give me freedom. The other thing is that Blizzard's idea of questing is irrelevant to the game. It poses no purpose at all to the story. That is why many players leveled there characters up through professions and battlegrounds. Now if they had a decent story mode like SWTOR then it would be worth questing. But I'm really tired of quests like killing 100 boars to get 1 tusk crap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    Well, in their fortress example "flying" could be easily substituted with "stealth". Does this mean they are removing this mechaincs from rogues and druids in WoD? One would logically assume so, because it does exactly the same "wrong" thing as flying...
    Exactly...Its dumb...

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Exactly. All of my enjoyment fighting my way through that fort to my assassination target is going to be ruined when before I get to the boss someone sweeps in on their flying mount and steals my kill. I picked up the quest half an hour ago and have just gotten to the boss. The other guy picked up the quest 2 minutes ago and hasn't put in an ounce of effort.

    Whether flying is removed or kept in, it isn't a choice. Or at least not a viable choice. Either there's no flying, or there is the option between flying and gimping yourself.
    Oh my goodness gracious. The horror! Its like people don't remember Seth Halls stealth runs (including the ones pining for the fjords of vanilla wow). "OMG, those damn rogues and druids! Farming for gear or the raven mount/druid flying quest without killing the all the bosses!". Of course, IIRC, blizz tweaked the dungeon enough to end those stealth runs.

    Its like people never fought through 20+ mobs for 5minutes to get to a quest boss/target/whatever only to see that a rogue/druid just killed him before you and now you're waiting for x minutes for a respawn. All the while hoping no one else shows up and tags him before you, or you can get a group with them or the other faction doesn't show up and steal it. OMG, FLYING MOUNTS ARE HORRIBLE AND GAME BREAKING!!!!!1111 WE MUST BAN THEMZ! IMMERSIONZ!

    Have you people never flown as a druid in flight form over the mountains and valleys, enjoying the views?

    The blizzard devs and the no flying crowd have lost their ever flippin minds with this nonsense.

    As for store mounts, who cares. They can't take that much resources to make. Buy them or don't. The only one I've ever thought worth the money would be a two+ seater that could fly, thus avoiding the RAF requirements. Given the WoD design statements made by blizz, that would now be a bad investment I think though.

    For me, the main choice now is, is the pre-order with free 90 power level service worth the risks given the no flying nonsense and some of the healer design changes in WoD (aka Draenor part 2: Cataclysm Crazyness).

  20. #360
    I like to ask 2 simple questions?
    Who goes and levels up in Vashj'ir?
    What about playing Isle of Thunder?
    Why or Why not?

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