1. #1
    Deleted

    Difference between a Castle/Keep/Stronghold/Fortress. What is this?

    Hello. So me and a couple of friends are building this pretty big thing in Minecraft, however I'm not exactly sure of what it is as I'm not too knowledgeable about the terms for medieval buildings.

    I usually just call this a 'stronghold' or 'keep' but I was informed that the building at the end might be considered the keep and then stronghold is the entire thing, with the keep inside.

    When does it become a castle? If the entire thing had a roof with multiple towers on each level? Do castles have roofs? I'm clueless.

    Thank you.


  2. #2
    Deleted
    Castles provides housing for royal families, it's not a construction with a big yard in the middle. I'd say that t's a stronghold, yards like that were used for military training.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    The "keep" is usually a smaller fortification within the castle walls (or simply connected to the castle). If the castle walls are breached, you should typically be able to keep defending from the keep.
    So simply, the entire thing is a castle with the keep inside?

    Edit: Or perhaps not ^

    Stronghold with a keep, then?

  4. #4
    Deleted
    castle
    ˈkɑːs(ə)l/
    noun
    noun: castle; plural noun: castles

    1.
    a large building, typically of the medieval period, fortified against attack with thick walls, battlements, towers, and often a moat





    keep
    kiːp/
    noun
    noun: keep; plural noun: keeps

    3.
    the strongest or central tower of a castle, acting as a final refuge.




    stronghold
    ˈstrɒŋhəʊld/
    noun
    noun: stronghold; plural noun: strongholds

    2.
    a place that has been fortified so as to protect it against attack.





    fortress
    ˈfɔːtrɪs/
    noun
    noun: fortress; plural noun: fortresses
    1.
    a military stronghold, especially a strongly fortified town.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollskalden View Post
    Castles provides housing for royal families,
    That's a palace. Castles are at the same time fortifications and residences, though in modern times long after castles had become militarily obsolete there was a movement to build palaces that look like "castles" with walls that look like fortifications but aren't. That's why some people think "castle" means something Disneyish like this...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuschwanstein_Castle

    ...but back when castles were actually used for military they didn't look all fancy like this.

    it's not a construction with a big yard in the middle.
    Plenty of castles back in the Middle Ages had big yards in the middle. For example this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumaris_Castle

    A single wall castle with an inner keep of the type the OP seems to be envisioning would typically have a small yard. A big yard like the one in the picture is completely counter-productive since the point of the yard is to trap the enemy that breaches the walls so that you can put arrows into the soldiers flooding the breach from the safety of the keep. Arrows don't actually have a very long lethal range.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    I've got to say though I'm still not sure.

    What if it had houses on the grass, what would it be?

    Can it only be a castle if nobility lives there AND you replace grass with stone?

    Does it make sense to have banners?
    Last edited by mmoc842017c00d; 2014-04-26 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Let us put it this way:
    -you build a fortified building from where you rule and where you live - this is a castle
    -you build walls isolating a certain land-area with your castle within the walls - this is a stronghold
    -you decide to expand into other lands, so you build a keep somewhere to keep the borders secure, this keep is only there for soldiers mostly, it's like a border post - this is a keep
    -you then build walls so that your keep is better defended and the living areas of soldiers and the villagers who live around are also defended - this is a fortress
    -when you build walls around your keep isolating a certain area, but not the living area, rather just an area to act as a buffer in case the first row of wall is breached - this is also a stronghold

    That is how I see the issue at least.

  8. #8
    My own definitions

    Stronghold could be just a wodden palisade or some dirt thrown up as a means of protection. The place villagers and local farmers would seek protection if raided.

    Castle a large complex of buildings, there would be several buildings housing everything from bakeries to stables to barracks, walls and other fortifications exist as a means of proection.

    Keep a large round(or whatever shape you want)stone tower, or rather building, the house of the lord, the building where he feasts his guests etc, the last outpost of a castle. Often situated in the middle.

    Fortress, a defensive structure, size could varry, from a Keep like tower to a complex of buildings built in a strategically important location.
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2014-04-26 at 03:08 PM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sar93 View Post
    Hello. So me and a couple of friends are building this pretty big thing in Minecraft, however I'm not exactly sure of what it is as I'm not too knowledgeable about the terms for medieval buildings.

    I usually just call this a 'stronghold' or 'keep' but I was informed that the building at the end might be considered the keep and then stronghold is the entire thing, with the keep inside.

    When does it become a castle? If the entire thing had a roof with multiple towers on each level? Do castles have roofs? I'm clueless.

    Thank you.

    http://i.imgur.com/GwtvAgwl.jpg
    As others have eluded to the Fortress would refer to the area enclosed by fortifications. So everything within the walls is a fortress. The keep is the central building within the fortress. (Although the position of the keep would actually all come down to defensibility, if the terrain meant it was more defensible against one of the walls that is where you would find the keep)

    Technically a stronghold is the exact same thing as a fortress and a castle is also a type of fortress, although typically only enclosing buildings of political or military interest, but not strictly defined as such... but if you go to Western Europe where the term castle was born all of the structures identified as castles have one thing in common: Unless you were a servant or a soldier only the nobility lived there.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    but if you go to Western Europe where the term castle was born all of the structures identified as castles have one thing in common: Unless you were a servant or a soldier only the nobility lived there.
    Many or probably most castles were purely military though and didn't have any nobility living in there, besides high ranking military who were of course aristocrats.

  11. #11
    There was distinct differences between a castle and fortress as times went by.

    A castle was more of a get away, a place to chill and feast, a fortress was a defensive structure.

    Here is Läckö Castle for example.


    Here is Älvsborgs Fortress.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Okay, got rid of the weird looking keep structure. Here's what we have now.



    What would it be with a keep in the center? I often see this sort and I regard it as the 'quintessential castle', which is like a 9 year olds understanding buildings.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    There was distinct differences between a castle and fortress as times went by.

    A castle was more of a get away, a place to chill and feast, a fortress was a defensive structure.

    Here is Läckö Castle for example.
    http://hittaupplevelse.se/wp-content...ttetflygvy.jpg
    That property has obviously been updated throughout the years though. The landscape itself there provides fortification against (I'm going to guess it was) 18th century weaponry, and it was probably located far away from any military hot zones, reducing the amount of actual defense required. There's no way you would be able to move artillery effectively through the surrounding forests,

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar93 View Post
    Okay, got rid of the weird looking keep structure. Here's what we have now.

    http://i.imgur.com/oXZYMydl.jpg

    What would it be with a keep in the center? I often see this sort and I regard it as the quintessential castle, which is probably wrong.

    http://i.imgur.com/QYQbxYKl.jpg

    I actually thought your keep looked pretty nice, a little bit of terraforming behind it to imply that it was the most defensible location would have done the trick.

    But with a central keep you'd probably be looking at a bit of a tiered structure, with the outer walls being nice and thick and serving as a barracks; with the service quarter in a taller central building. And Although the king obviously wouldn't live in a tower, because that would just be suicide, the central keep would have one that could see over the outer walls.

    EDIT: Stirling Castle is a pretty good example of a castle (Since you're obviously going for a British style one), considering it's one of the few Scottish castles that survived all the rigmarole in Britain.

    http://www.vacationtravelideas.net/s...e-enthusiasts/

    You'll notice the design choices; the central keep although not being a tower itself (not necessary since it's walls are relatively low because it's built on a hill) offers vantage points over the outer walls.

    edit2: Eilean Dolan castle (albeit rebuilt after the spanish blew it up) has a very beautiful looking keep. It's more of a "terrain fortified" castle and doesn't have huge outer walls though.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ei...-_Jan_2011.jpg
    Last edited by Gheld; 2014-04-26 at 04:52 PM.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Ettan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kekistan
    Posts
    1,936
    To me it depends on the era;
    Castle/Stronghold, pre dates effective siege cannons.
    >pre dates 1600 (aprox)

    Fortress/ Fort, fortification built to withstand siege weaponds.
    Anything from early rounded (and really thick) to later jagged and starshaped.
    <Later than 1600 (aprox)

    Fort-Fortress same thing.
    A stronghold is a castle, but the term is not used for all castles.

    Stronghold= smaller, purely for military purposes, designed to hold stratigic positions.
    Castles are designed for that aswell ofc, but they can also function as living quarters or encompass entire citys (for the really big ones).
    Its a useless term, every stronghold is a castle but not every castle is a stronghold.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    That property has obviously been updated throughout the years though. The landscape itself there provides fortification against (I'm going to guess it was) 18th century weaponry, and it was probably located far away from any military hot zones, reducing the amount of actual defense required. There's no way you would be able to move artillery effectively through the surrounding forests,
    Yeah, its been changed over the years, not in recent times of course but the original was built in like 1250. The way it looks now is how it looked around 1650. And it has of course seen maintainance.

    So its not an example of a medievil castle, but rather one from the 1600-1700s. During this time castles were kind of like mansions or get aways for the nobles, while fortresses like Älvsborgs Fortress were strictly defensive, life wasnt very glorious in a Fortress. Life in a Castle was all gravy though (for the nobles lol).
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  16. #16
    I'm curious what the difference is between a castle and a palace. I've seen the two words used to describe the same thing, but in my mind a castle is typically a medieval, stone building with towers and whatnot whereas a palace is essentially just a large mansion/estate. It seems that depending on the language you are reading though, the two words can be used on either type of building. Is it literally just a matter of language and culture as to how each are described or would others agree with my definitions? I know what a fortress is, but at the same time, some castles can also be fortresses whereas what I think of as a "palace" would not be a fortress at all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    Yeah, its been changed over the years, not in recent times of course but the original was built in like 1250. The way it looks now is how it looked around 1650. And it has of course seen maintainance.

    So its not an example of a medievil castle, but rather one from the 1600-1700s. During this time castles were kind of like mansions or get aways for the nobles, while fortresses like Älvsborgs Fortress were strictly defensive, life wasnt very glorious in a Fortress. Life in a Castle was all gravy though (for the nobles lol).
    Yeah but the point is it was modelled in it's current form after the introduction of artillery. Where suddenly thick stone walls were useless, but forests, lakes, and hills were pure gold. (and that castle has all of those to defend it)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •