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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeons View Post
    Balance is kind of bad damage wise no? If you reduce their off-healing the spec turns out pretty useless in arenas.
    Not at all, they can deal quite a lot of damage, and sometimes in the hands of a skilled player they can create a large amount of disarray between the enemy team.

    Balance just has a higher skill floor than most other specializations, so most people tend to avoid them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    It's not so much that Elemental's heals are broken, it's more that Elemental's burst healing and passive healing with things like HST, HTT in conjunction with their already reasonable defensives make them feel far worse than they are.
    Healing Tide Totem is the only issue that Elemental has as far as 'strong off-healing' goes. Other than that, they're fine. Healing Surge has to be cast for a hefty amount of mana, so it's hard to use while you're being trained. Ancestral Guidance has the same effect, you have to be casting for it to be effective.

  2. #22
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermahgerd View Post
    I appreciate you trying to defend off-healing, but you have to know that you can only stop off-heals for so long. You can stop an ele shaman for roughly 10-12 seconds as a WW Monk if you decide to use all of your stuns plus your interrupt on him. But you have to understand that these abilities aren't always off cooldown.

    An interrupt can be faked or baited after which an ele, spriest or boomy can just spam heal without any problems. Besides that, you're not always on your target either.

    Try to understand that you don't always have every ability at your disposal to throw at someone (or more specifically, two hybrids) spam healing one target.
    I understand that but if they are healing then they are also not doing damage. 2s are not supposed to be balanced.

    You are not supposed to stop every single one, if you did then those classes would be dead meat.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  3. #23
    its way too powerful.

  4. #24
    It is completely moot as WoD is changing it.

  5. #25
    Well, I do get sad whenever I see there's a moonkin on the opposing team trying to cap some casual 2s.
    Balance druids ... For offhealing, they are really the worst offender. They are also some slippery bastards, so I find killing one hard, 2s or not. Ele shamans throw out some decent heals too, with healing stream and Healing Tide as well as the occasional healing surge, spriests ... yeh, not so much

    I could ofc be very biased towards druids, I hate immortal resto druids, slippery balances, fucking annoying ferals and their strafe spam when you're stunned like a wannabe rogue and how fucking glued they are to you as well as the healing/survivability HotW notwithstanding. And don't get me started on guardians

    Yes, yes, QQ

    They are mostly a problem in 2s anyway. 2s are shit and not worth doing outside capping (and even 10 wins is horrible), and yes, I have developed quite a strong hatred towards druids. I know I should probably L2P a bit more rather than QQing but ... they are just so annoying!

    I thought however that the general consensus was that hybrids in previous times could heal decently at the lack of damage/utility but they do seem to have it all these days? Perhaps shamans lack a little in the CC department but that has to be the only thing.

    I want to play more classes so to learn, to see if the grass really is greener, I even have 2 shamans at 81 and 86 but llving is so fucking depressive. And when something finally hits 90, oh, the gearing process. It becomes more of an BDSM adventure than playing a game

  6. #26
    all dps healing is to high.

  7. #27
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Boomkins, 5 sources of healing- HT (2+ second cast, 2.5 i think?), can be made instant once/minute with Nature's Swiftness (But thats generally used on CC), Rejuve (Light HoT), Tranquility (8 min CD, channeled, heals for about 2x rejuve tick per tick, easily interupted), T30 talent (More powerful here. 1% health per second healing, or large HoT once/30 seconds), and T90 talent (Most likely Nature's Vigil. heals for 25% of damage, and direct heals get a 37% power boost, 33% uptime).

    Its easy to interupt hard-casted HTs, and they don't heal for much. Of course, rolling rejuves can go a LONG way against a dps/healer combo. Its also nearly impossible to run a boomkin oom from healing. Slow throughput, but they got longevity.

    Shamans, on the other hand, have Healing Surge, HST, and HTT. As well as healing rain, but I have NEVER seen a ele shaman cast Healing Rain in arena situations. So shamans, unlike druids, have fast throughput, but longevity is slow.

    So, next time you face a shaman/druid combo, focus the SHAMAN, not the druid. Have your monk friend annoy the boomkin with paralysis/stuns and such.
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  8. #28
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    all of the except enha. i can healing surge three times for 30k and go oom.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  9. #29
    Balance druid here. We have amazing offhealing capabilities yes but if we take HOTW its a 6 min CD so trying to get a kill while a boomkin is healing in HOTW just isnt that smart just play defensive while its up and the its GG.

    Did 2's on saturday with a lock and on 2 different matches out healed the healer on the opposing team.

    Classes with the ability to offheal are balanced accordingly. Balance druids defensive cool downs are what.. Bark Skin and Might of Ursoc. But if you include things like Rejuv, Healing Touch and Cenarion ward they are not in to bad of shape. The huge benefit to these is that you can cast them on other players not just yourself but that is why they are not super strong. I think boomkins are the strongest DPS off heals that can heal an insane amount in short periods of time. Just figure out how to lock them down inside of their CD's like you would for anyone else....

    Doing DPS/Healer vs 2dps with offheals is just not to good lol. I imagine it was similar to doing dps/healer vs dps/healer.

    All and all keep in mind blizzard takes into account the ability to off heal when balancing classes. And the ability to off DPS as a healer

  10. #30
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reveries1 View Post
    Balance druid here. We have amazing offhealing capabilities yes but if we take HOTW its a 6 min CD so trying to get a kill while a boomkin is healing in HOTW just isnt that smart just play defensive while its up and the its GG.

    Did 2's on saturday with a lock and on 2 different matches out healed the healer on the opposing team.

    Classes with the ability to offheal are balanced accordingly. Balance druids defensive cool downs are what.. Bark Skin and Might of Ursoc. But if you include things like Rejuv, Healing Touch and Cenarion ward they are not in to bad of shape. The huge benefit to these is that you can cast them on other players not just yourself but that is why they are not super strong. I think boomkins are the strongest DPS off heals that can heal an insane amount in short periods of time. Just figure out how to lock them down inside of their CD's like you would for anyone else....

    Doing DPS/Healer vs 2dps with offheals is just not to good lol. I imagine it was similar to doing dps/healer vs dps/healer.

    All and all keep in mind blizzard takes into account the ability to off heal when balancing classes. And the ability to off DPS as a healer
    The reason boomkin heals are so strong is not only because they heal for a lot or that you can put it on other people but because boomkins can not really go oom.

    I see boomkin heals are 'op' to some but that is how they survive. If you nerf their heals you have to give them something to compensate.
    Last edited by apepi; 2014-04-28 at 09:05 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeons View Post
    Balance is kind of bad damage wise no? If you reduce their off-healing the spec turns out pretty useless in arenas.
    so what it's a derp spec anyway

  12. #32
    Melee spec hybrids such as ret and enhance sux hard, im not sure about ww monks and their energy consumption while healing, but retribution is at the bottom because other than selfless healer we dont have a super healing talent/spell that can be used in rated play.

    caster off-healing is only good because they have the same mana pools as a true healer. Im a holy pally now but i was ret last season...ret off-healing on others was awesome, but it rly didnt matter because i was always the focus so my utility and off healing was non-existent.

  13. #33
    Why anybody apart from healers can actually do any self healing is beyond me. Remove it all and properly balance healers and dps.

  14. #34
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Why anybody apart from healers can actually do any self healing is beyond me. Remove it all and properly balance healers and dps.
    Can't tell if serious or not.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Why anybody apart from healers can actually do any self healing is beyond me. Remove it all and properly balance healers and dps.
    Because that's the way hybrids have been designed since forever? Take away the (self) healing and people would be complaining about Enhance/Ret/Feral CC or something else that they need in order to be compensated for not having heals.
    If anything the "true/pure" classes should have their healing cut back and hybrids should be more "jack of all trades, master of none" at least in my opinion.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Castozor View Post
    Because that's the way hybrids have been designed since forever? Take away the (self) healing and people would be complaining about Enhance/Ret/Feral CC or something else that they need in order to be compensated for not having heals.
    If anything the "true/pure" classes should have their healing cut back and hybrids should be more "jack of all trades, master of none" at least in my opinion.
    Pure's already have joke healing hunters, rogues? Some of the weakest healing in the game, mage heals ? what? Lock has some real heals as destro but locks have always been the healing pure.

    So you would like to see hybrids go back to joke dmg and pure heals removed the original model I'm sure that go over well.
    Last edited by Wow; 2014-04-29 at 04:23 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Can't tell if serious or not.

    You either dps, heal or tank, none of this hybrid bullshit the game seems to have which makes balancing anything impossible.

  18. #38
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    You either dps, heal or tank, none of this hybrid bullshit the game seems to have which makes balancing anything impossible.
    Hybrid roles can definitely work in PvP, but it complicates a lot of things in PvE, as everyone needs to be competitive on the meters so it means that other abilities are subject to change.

    Elemental, Balance and Shadow, and the other hybrid melee specializations will never reach the top in a raiding environment because of the hybrid tax that they have, they either bring a lot of utility, or healing, or both to make up for the damage that they're lacking.

  19. #39
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    You either dps, heal or tank, none of this hybrid bullshit the game seems to have which makes balancing anything impossible.
    Yes lets just one one dps class one tank class and one healing class, everything will be balanced then!

    If this is what you want, then this is not your game. Some specs can do a few roles, as long as it as not as strong as the ones that are supposed to do it. WoD will not be changing this, it will even be having more with spriest and warriors.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  20. #40
    @the guy that said healers should heal etc. Pures heal too... to a lesser degree, but pures heal and sometimes have better defensives to compensate. Hunters have 10% passive damage reduction, or a constant ticking second wind and x2 immubites. It's certainly not a problem in 3s and it should be more balanced in 2s with the HP changes in WoD (shamans also lose healing tide and druids tranq, which will help to some degree). I also have doubts that the usable while silenced part of cenarion ward will stay w/ the reduction of cc in WoD

    It's one thing to ask how to deal with hybrid healing (and say that you think it's powerful), but to nearly come to the conclusion that hybrid dps are gods is just ridiculous. Locks, mages, hunters, warriors. All tier 1 dps in pvp, all pures.

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