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  1. #1

    Heroic Garrosh 10 man - which classes to take?

    Yet another H Garrosh thread. Tons of informations and tips out there but I would really need and appreciate specific advice for our raid composition.

    We plan to 2 Tank and 1 Heal it.

    Brewmaster Monk
    Feral Druid

    Disc Priest

    The DPS might vary depending on who is available for the raid or not. Ele Shaman, Moonkin and at least 1 Warlock are pretty much set.

    2 x Warlock
    2 x Hunters
    2 x Mages
    Ele Shaman (+ Heal spec)
    Fury Warrior
    Moonkin
    Ret Paladin (+ Heal spec)


    Now I would really like to hear your opinion on how to handle:

    How should we assign our player for T1?

    Engineer? Warlock or Hunter?

    P4 Iron Star? Though about going with the Monk. Heard Shaman and Druid are also viable.




    Thanks.
    Last edited by owldude; 2014-04-28 at 08:40 AM.

  2. #2
    If you're 1 healing it you need the maximum amount of raid cds possible. Especially as you have the two worst tanks in terms of raid utility (no EF-with-400K vengeance prot pally,or raid cds from DK/Pally/warr).
    So Ele, moonkin, lock, fury, ret, and personal preference, a hunter (so you can immunity P4 malice easily with hunter+ret).
    Anything can kite the ironstar really. We have our disc do it (2 healers 1 tank). But yea, probably your feral druid will be the best bet, solo tank phase, and he won't do a lot of damage.

  3. #3
    I would go pretty much with above except that I would definately bring something else over the ret. Bring a second warlock, or mage/hunter if they are better.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would go pretty much with above except that I would definately bring something else over the ret. Bring a second warlock, or mage/hunter if they are better.
    Loses you an aura mastery and 2 out of 3 tank cooldowns (double hands) in favor of getting nothing in return. Rets aren't bad on this fight, really.

  5. #5
    As far as I'm aware hunters are pretty bad for engineers considering their pets can't attack them. Destro warlock would be better.

    I am not sure why you want to 2 heal it, that just makes the fight harder. The only reason Paragon did it was to meet dps requirements and they stacked raid cooldowns. They also used a holy priest, not a disc priest.

    BrM monk can solo a group in Trans 1. Either split the rest of your raid in 4 groups, each going to a corner, or 2 groups each doing a side.

    A monk can do it, I do it every week using a couple feathers our shadow priest drops for me during bombardment. I have also done it with a resto druid kiting it in travel form.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Loses you an aura mastery and 2 out of 3 tank cooldowns (double hands) in favor of getting nothing in return. Rets aren't bad on this fight, really.
    Why do you need tank cooldowns ?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Why do you need tank cooldowns ?
    Because there's only one healer, silly. Mitigating as much damage as possible is neccessary. Especially when they aren't using a prot paladin to basicly be a second healer. Even if you don't use them on tanks, they'll help greatly in intermissions if someone misses out on their damage reduction buff.
    And Toxiel, it's been done by discs at this point.

  8. #8
    P1 two iron stars explosions, possible cd for t1, 3 cds for p2 unempowered whirlwinds, cds for t2 if you do it/choose to not afk it, p2 empowered whirlwind (either one or two), cd for p3 empowered whirlwind,p4 iron star collision, possible cds for malice that is before bombardement.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxiel View Post
    I am not sure why you want to 2 heal it, that just makes the fight harder. The only reason Paragon did it was to meet dps requirements and they stacked raid cooldowns. They also used a holy priest, not a disc priest.
    The Shaman and Paladin both have heal specs by the way - equally or better geared than their DPS spec, but I saw most people recommending either 1 heal/2tank or 2 heal/1 tank strat.

    Our DPS' ilvl is around ~574.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Because there's only one healer, silly. Mitigating as much damage as possible is neccessary. Especially when they aren't using a prot paladin to basicly be a second healer.
    Our Paladin also has Tank equip, but sadly not much experience playing Prot.
    Last edited by owldude; 2014-04-28 at 08:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Loses you an aura mastery and 2 out of 3 tank cooldowns (double hands) in favor of getting nothing in return. Rets aren't bad on this fight, really.
    Tank cooldowns? What do you need them for? AM is not the insane. Another warlock or mage/hunter would bring a lot more to the group than the ret will.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Because there's only one healer, silly. Mitigating as much damage as possible is neccessary. Especially when they aren't using a prot paladin to basicly be a second healer. Even if you don't use them on tanks, they'll help greatly in intermissions if someone misses out on their damage reduction buff.
    And Toxiel, it's been done by discs at this point.
    Paladins do not bring that much healing to the table anymore since the GotBH nerf. A monk do far more raid healing than a paladin do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by owldude View Post
    The Shaman and Paladin both have heal specs by the way - equally or better geared than their DPS spec, but I saw most people recommending either 1 heal/2tank or 2 heal/1 tank strat.

    Our DPS' ilvl is around ~574.
    It is more a matter of how good your dps is. The reason most guilds nowadays go for 1 heal/2tank 2 heal/ 1 tank is because their dpsers is simply not good enough. If you have solid dpsers you could give 2/2 a go.

    With 574 ilvl going with 2 heals 2 tanks 6 dps should be rather easy as long as you are not carrying dead weight. Especially considerig you got the option of bringing 2 warlocks and 1 boomkin which is pretty much gg for Garrosh.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    It is more a matter of how good your dps is. The reason most guilds nowadays go for 1 heal/2tank 2 heal/ 1 tank is because their dpsers is simply not good enough. If you have solid dpsers you could give 2/2 a go.
    We usually ended up with the least amount of healer for our kills. Siegcrafter with 1 healer and Klaxxi with 2, after we started progress with 2 and 3 respectively.
    Last edited by owldude; 2014-04-28 at 09:02 AM.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    I'd go with monk tank, disc + shaman healer, moonkin , 2 warlocks, 2 hunters, warrior, ret; assuming all similarly geared/skilled. Or switch shaman/paladin as dps/healer.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Tank cooldowns? What do you need them for? AM is not the insane. Another warlock or mage/hunter would bring a lot more to the group than the ret will.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Paladins do not bring that much healing to the table anymore since the GotBH nerf. A monk do far more raid healing than a paladin do.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Dunno, might be true. The good thing about a paladin, though, is that he can decide where his healing goes. That said, it hardly matters as it's not an option. I do question how a 20% dmg reduc cd that can be used effectively when spread is "not that insane". Looking at their setup, assuming they took a mage or hunter, their raid cds would be:

    Tank-druid tranq.
    Boomkin tranq.
    Barrier.
    Ele shaman AG+HTT.
    Fury warrior banner+rally.

    Considering the boomkin and tank druid tranqs can only be used once per fight, they are severely lacking in the cooldown department for 1 healing the fight. Especially assuming they get 2x empowered whirls (1 in p2, 1 in p3) they won't even have a damage reduction CD for both of them, only pure healing.
    As also mentioned, Hands can have other uses than for the tanks, such as covering someone who missed their buff in the intermission, but one thing is for sure - the only thing a mage and a hunter will bring is 5-10% dps more, while a ret brings damage reduction cds. If they insist on solo healing, then they'd be stupid to not take all they can get.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Dunno, might be true. The good thing about a paladin, though, is that he can decide where his healing goes. That said, it hardly matters as it's not an option. I do question how a 20% dmg reduc cd that can be used effectively when spread is "not that insane". Looking at their setup, assuming they took a mage or hunter, their raid cds would be:

    Tank-druid tranq.
    Boomkin tranq.
    Barrier.
    Ele shaman AG+HTT.
    Fury warrior banner+rally.

    Considering the boomkin and tank druid tranqs can only be used once per fight, they are severely lacking in the cooldown department for 1 healing the fight. Especially assuming they get 2x empowered whirls (1 in p2, 1 in p3) they won't even have a damage reduction CD for both of them, only pure healing.
    As also mentioned, Hands can have other uses than for the tanks, such as covering someone who missed their buff in the intermission, but one thing is for sure - the only thing a mage and a hunter will bring is 5-10% dps more, while a ret brings damage reduction cds. If they insist on solo healing, then they'd be stupid to not take all they can get.
    The thing is with their setup they dont really need the raid cds for whirls as their entire team got strong personals. They also get avert harm. Overall they are set pretty good for survival. I honestly think the extra throughput another better class would bring is worth far more than the extra AM in a 10 man group.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    With 574 ilvl going with 2 heals 2 tanks 6 dps should be rather easy as long as you are not carrying dead weight.
    Our roster is full of clickers and people pulling 20-30% dps less then they should, so....

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The thing is with their setup they dont really need the raid cds for whirls as their entire team got strong personals. They also get avert harm. Overall they are set pretty good for survival. I honestly think the extra throughput another better class would bring is worth far more than the extra AM in a 10 man group.
    You're forgetting that 1 healing the intermission will be straight up brutal, and might require half of the CDs just to survive, though. Disc is one of the weakest, only possibly surpassed by paladins, at the constant movement healing in that room. As for personals, eh. Hunter's deterrence isn't consistent enough (2 uses then CD for 2 min, and need 2x to handle the malice), and not sure what fury warrior has.

    In the end, it's probably down to preference. I put far more weight on having another raid CD and multiple usages of singletarget dmg reduction than I do on .5% overall dps more.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    You're forgetting that 1 healing the intermission will be straight up brutal, and might require half of the CDs just to survive, though. Disc is one of the weakest, only possibly surpassed by paladins, at the constant movement healing in that room. As for personals, eh. Hunter's deterrence isn't consistent enough (2 uses then CD for 2 min, and need 2x to handle the malice), and not sure what fury warrior has.

    In the end, it's probably down to preference. I put far more weight on having another raid CD and multiple usages of singletarget dmg reduction than I do on .5% overall dps more.
    By blowing the shorter cds in the first transition they will have them back for when they need them later on. They are probably skipping the second transition so that is not an issue.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    and not sure what fury warrior has.
    I've either die by the sword + defstance or shield wall + defstance up for each whirl thanks to the cooldown reduction trinket.

    Solo healing the intermission isn't to bad even with a disc priest depending on your setup. It might look worse from your PoV due to running two tanks, both aiming to maximise their vengeance thus eating as much annihilates as possible on purpose. We've a prot paladin assisting with the hammer (highly empowered after eating some annihilates, that's several millions of raidhealing with a single button), owl using nature's vigil covering the entire phase, shamans dropping their healing rains (1 million heal from each) and one healing tide. The maximum amount of damage taken during this phase is 3.5 million per player of the course of ~ 25 seconds, with personals this can easily get reduced by one million.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    It is more a matter of how good your dps is. The reason most guilds nowadays go for 1 heal/2tank 2 heal/ 1 tank is because their dpsers is simply not good enough. If you have solid dpsers you could give 2/2 a go.
    I disagree with that statement. Most guilds push for less tanks & heals so they can skip the second intermission (which is argueable the toughest one) entirely and with enough dps only have to deal with one empowered whirl (this way you just kill the adds, no need for a poor monk or warrior tank running around in circles for several minutes). And please don't forget that depending on your setup two healer can contribute zero to almost a full dps slot worth of damage to the fight (ie: holy paladin + resto shaman versus mistweaver monk + disc priest).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    I disagree with that statement. Most guilds push for less tanks & heals so they can skip the second intermission (which is argueable the toughest one) entirely and with enough dps only have to deal with one empowered whirl (this way you just kill the adds, no need for a poor monk or warrior tank running around in circles for several minutes). And please don't forget that depending on your setup two healer can contribute zero to almost a full dps slot worth of damage to the fight (ie: holy paladin + resto shaman versus mistweaver monk + disc priest).
    The second transition is incredibly easy compared to the first one. There is no time pressure or anything on it, and you could just afk the entire transition anyway.

    Also do many 10 man guilds kite the adds from the whirls? We always killed them on progression, we usually had 3-5 whirls.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Paladins do not bring that much healing to the table anymore since the GotBH nerf. A monk do far more raid healing than a paladin do.
    I vomited a little reading this.

    Prot Paladins do way more raid healing than BM monks, it's called Eternal Flame, which they can maintain 1 on themselves and 2 on others. Monks don't have a single shred of it without guard.

    If you don't know this, it means you are running with a bad prot pally, or you never ran with one before and are just pretending to be knowledgeable on the subject.

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