No Hit Rating for PVE Rogues in WoD?

[Deleted]

Am i the only one freaking out about this? Maybe my perception is wrong but if i remember correctly, when my rogue is a fresh max level with zero hit rating it's impossible to do decent DPS.
Any pro PVE Rogue around here that could elaborate on this topic and the consequences for rogues?

"Dual-wield classes (rogues, enhancement shamans, frost DK's, fury warriors, potentially windwalker monks) will have an additional 17% chance to miss with no way to improve it in order to balance their DPS out against 2h users."
WoWinsider

Nowadays all rogues have 24% chance to miss attacks (19% of DW + 5% base miss chance).
So this means in WoD will be 17% + 5% = 22% to miss attacks or will simply be 17% miss chance? What are the consequences of this?
The primary stat to improve on a fresh rogue raider was always "hit rating". Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.

Thoughts?

[grimsanta]

Everyone will get the equivalent of 7.5% hit and expertise. You won't notice a change.

[Morgaith]

the 5% is being removed so it'll be 17% miss chance for all dual wielders.

looks like single 2h is the way to go.

[Rezhial]

EDIT: Nevermind I should read entire articles before posting about it.

[Sinzaram]

Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.

Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.

Also no numbers tuning has been done yet at this stage of development, they are more concerned about getting everyones rotations right with everyones new abilities and perks and changes.
Randomly speculating that because of X mechanical change; damage might be lower, doesn't make sense because they will tune all the numbers to where they want them to be once they have finished with the mechanical changes.

They went though this process in MoP beta too.
Class changes first.
Number changes second.

[Deleted]

Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.

Niiiiice! That's what i always wanted. The 24% miss chance on rogues is the most frustrating thing ever. I made my decision, i am going to be combat rogue for the first time in WoD ^-^)

[Lesane]

Am i the only one freaking out about this? Maybe my perception is wrong but if i remember correctly, when my rogue is a fresh max level with zero hit rating it's impossible to do decent DPS.
Any pro PVE Rogue around here that could elaborate on this topic and the consequences for rogues?

"Dual-wield classes (rogues, enhancement shamans, frost DK's, fury warriors, potentially windwalker monks) will have an additional 17% chance to miss with no way to improve it in order to balance their DPS out against 2h users."
WoWinsider

Nowadays all rogues have 24% chance to miss attacks (19% of DW + 5% base miss chance).
So this means in WoD will be 17% + 5% = 22% to miss attacks or will simply be 17% miss chance? What are the consequences of this?
The primary stat to improve on a fresh rogue raider was always "hit rating". Maybe rogues will do less damage in WoD compared to today, not sure.

Thoughts?

There is no base miss chance anymore other than the 17% you mentioned which only goes for auto attacks. Specials will never miss anymore, and specials were the main reason you go for hit rating above all else. Once you have enough hit rating to never miss specials, the value of hit rating dived or became completely useless if you weren't dual wielding.

[Deleted]

Combat Rogues in particular will have a Draenor Perk called "Improved Ambidexterity" which removes this dual wield penalty since white damage has always been a Combat Rogue thing.

Nice, I'm really happy about this. Not even because of damage increase, but just because not being able to miss "feels" more fun. Having also played hard hit capped lowbie combat rogue alt (not my main rogue) always landing auto attacks felt much more rewarding.

[catablitz]

Improved Ambidexterity also boosts energy regen.

[Battlebeard]

The question is not wether this will be better or worse, the answer is obviously better.

The question is why they even added Hit rating into the game in the first place...

Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.

[Kael]

Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.

While I primarily agree with this, this isn't what Blizzard thinks, or we'd never have seen RPPM trinkets pop up, or cloaks/meta run on the same system, and see gargantuan DPS swings for equal play from 1 pull to another. If you have a crucial time in the fight that occurs at the same time every time, you can save CDs for it... but since CDs alone pale hard in comparison to CDs and trinkets, you really shouldn't expect to get the same DPS each pull, generally with the exception (not always) of the first 20 seconds. Granted, there are specs that suffer from this way more than any rogue spec (feral, affliction, demo, balance, others I'm not thinking of), but the DPS swing is fairly large even for us -- and outside of snapshotting issues, Blizzard likes that aspect.

[fierydemise]

The question is not wether this will be better or worse, the answer is obviously better.

The question is why they even added Hit rating into the game in the first place...

Hit rating means means more RNG. RNG = Bad thing! Less RNG in the game will really improve the quality of the game.

RNG isn't inherently a bad thing, without RNG rotations would be totally static. Obviously too much RNG is bad but no rogue spec is really a casino spec like an undergeared boomkin or a cata ret pally. There is a sweet spot for RNG and I think Blizzard has done a pretty good job with it for rogues.

While I primarily agree with this, this isn't what Blizzard thinks, or we'd never have seen RPPM trinkets pop up, or cloaks/meta run on the same system, and see gargantuan DPS swings for equal play from 1 pull to another.

'
RPPM is a great system for thinks like the legendary items and weapon enchants, it is a strictly better version of the old PPM system which they used for those in previous expansions. RPPM isn't so good for trinkets but that is partially related to trinket procs being insanely powerful rather than any inherent problems with the rogue spec. Blizzard has said they don't like the results of the really powerful trinket procs so they plan to tone those way down, if trinkets do get toned down substantially then RPPM could be a fine system for trinkets. I really like the approach they used this tier, basically RPPM trinkets had more average case stats to compensate for the reduced reliability, just like on use trinkets tend to have less average case stats than a proc trinket.