1. #1

    Post [WoD Idea] What if shields (DA) absorbed half the damage?

    Hey there, everyone!
    First of all, I'm a fan of the disc kit and a disc myself.
    As all of you know, discipline priests have been great healers for the whole expac, even though they need a partner to get the raid HP up while he fails as doing so. The greatest complains about Disc are about the healing meters - it's not that they heal more, they heal first, not giving you a chance to heal. Normal mode is just... BLEH if you have a disc on your group (and it's not you) (sup healing rain divine star crit).
    This is mostly because of Divine Aegis, not Spirit Shell or PW:S which are not "used" as often. One prayer of healing is almost a guaranteed shield-whole-group with some proc and Archangel2P up, and that "takes away the other healers numbers".

    BUT what if Divine Aegis absorbed only part (like, half) of the damage taken? That would make people HP go down while still making the random DA shields pretty useful. Maybe extend the duration of DA to not make it go to waste.
    I'll try to explain, just in case.

    Without the shield dimishing (currently):
    1. HP: 300k DA: 100K
    2. This person takes a 80k damage
    3. HP: 300K DA: 20K (nothing for other healers to do. BORING)

    WITH the shield dimishing (50%):
    1. HP: 300k DA: 100K
    2. This person takes a 80k damage
    3. HP: 260k DA: 60K (yay, I can actually heal someone!)


    If I want to actually prevent damage (like on Sun's Calimity or Wind Lord's blade storm) I would pop Spirit Shell and give DEM SHIELDS to the raid. Maybe damage spikes like Nazgrim's Execute would be harder to counter for discs, if the tank happens to have Weakened Soul I usually pop IF + GH for some big shield, which wouldn't be as efficient, but I don't really see a problem on that, maybe make Inner Focus DA not absorb less damage...? (no)

    I really think this is a good idea, but I fail to see where it wouldn't work and would like you guys input on this.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Would this not be stronger for high levels of burst than our current implementation of absorbs?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kassadin View Post
    Would this not be stronger for high levels of burst than our current implementation of absorbs?
    Yes, it would make shields a very strong external % damage cd, which is even more broken.

    It's like giving everyone divine protection that works on all damage.

    Bad idea in the making.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  4. #4
    Yes, it would ease out and even the damage. Spread it across time.
    But that "Divine Protection for all damage" would only last for about 2 or 3 ticks of damage, if you're thinking of something like Sun's Phase. And Divine Aegis isn't something so "easy" to spread across the whole raid.
    You're missing out that shields are already a VERY high % damage reduction cd, making mechanics like Aim (Hisek) seem like they do NO DAMAGE at all (1 IF + 1 PoH on setted soak group)

    Plus, if the damage takes out the whole shield and short after does the same amount of damage, wouldn't that be a huge spike of damage and be something that is going to be avoided in WoD? And if that pulsing damage does not break the shield on one tick, the shield is going to last for the other one anyways, making it a much stronger %cd reduction cd, a 100% damage reduction. You have to consider this.

    Thok is a great example of high levels of burst damage and how shields ignore some of those pulses. Inner Focus can grant no damage to one group for 3 Thok Casts if you're lucky with the crits. The goal with the design is to make shields impact less on others healing while still maintaining their damage reduction power

    I understand the concern, though I don't agree with it yet, mainly because of the way Divine Aegis is applied. It may come down to how damage patterns on fights are designed, tbh
    Last edited by moothz; 2014-05-05 at 12:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Thanks for stealing my idea from 6 months ago.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Thanks for stealing my idea from 6 months ago.
    That means someone else had the same idea and could join us on this discussion, which is great!
    I'd be glad if you could share your conclusions and concerns about it, if someone has made a point clear why it would not work or something like that...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    Yes, it would ease out and even the damage. Spread it across time.
    Has the side effect of making shields even more toxic than they already are. Bravo.

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    But that "Divine Protection for all damage" would only last for about 2 or 3 ticks of damage, if you're thinking of something like Sun's Phase.
    Better than lasting for only 1 tick.


    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    And Divine Aegis isn't something so "easy" to spread across the whole raid.
    Do you even play disc? Because an actual disc priest will never be shameless enough to say this of their own class.

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    You're missing out that shields are already a VERY high % damage reduction cd, making mechanics like Aim (Hisek) seem like they do NO DAMAGE at all (1 IF + 1 PoH on setted soak group)
    No, I didn't miss out anything. The situation you outlined is way healthier because shields drop off quicker. If they worked exactly as you outlined, you would have the soakers having more than sufficient shields to stay alive for aim, AND stay alive after that for whatever mechanics they take(fixates and whatnot).

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    Plus, if the damage takes out the whole shield and short after does the same amount of damage, wouldn't that be a huge spike of damage and be something that is going to be avoided in WoD? And if that pulsing damage does not break the shield on one tick, the shield is going to last for the other one anyways, making it a much stronger %cd reduction cd, a 100% damage reduction. You have to consider this.
    Because disc priests need to be stronger than they already are. Oh yeah totally.

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    Thok is a great example of high levels of burst damage and how shields ignore some of those pulses. Inner Focus can grant no damage to one group for 3 Thok Casts if you're lucky with the crits. The goal with the design is to make shields impact less on others healing while still maintaining their damage reduction power
    The actual effect of your proposed changes is shields impact even more on other healers' healing because it lasts longer, and shields have more damage reduction power in general.

    Instead of invalidating 3 pulses of Thok casts, you now invalidate more than 6 of it if you are anywhere near decent at abusing your T90/IF PoH/SS/paladin BoP/Devo.

    Yeah, great idea there. Not.

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    I understand the concern, though I don't agree with it yet, mainly because of the way Divine Aegis is applied. It may come down to how damage patterns on fights are designed, tbh
    I find it weird someone who has obviously 0 high end experience with disc(lol disc priests can't blanket DA on the raid easily), has the temerity to disagree with the actual disc users on how DA should be balanced.

    tl;dr version:

    50% damage reduction for 2 ticks is infinitely better than 100% damage reduction for 1 tick in any practical situation imaginable.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  8. #8
    High Overlord Tatahe's Avatar
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    I like the idea

  9. #9
    The problem is the level 90 talents not da.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    50% damage reduction for 2 ticks is infinitely better than 100% damage reduction for 1 tick in any practical situation imaginable.
    I totally agree with this, better for the whole raid.

    Gosh, why do people always tend to be so extreme about stuff? I never said anything extreme, and put quotation marks on "easy" for a reason - you depend on a crit chance for it to happen, so it is not guaranteed, that's what I meant with "easy". Sitting on almost 45% crit after buffs (not current gear on armory) gives a huge change of applying it (consider trinket proc and archangel and damn, that's a huge chance), but that's on 578 ilevel and very crit oriented build.
    I also never said that I want these changes to happen or anything even close to that, I just had an idea and wanted to share and see if other people agreed with it, what were the major flaws, or why it would be so overpowered (in your case). Stop putting words in my mouth and poisoning the thread.

    I think you're taking everything to an extreme (like 120k+ DA 100% uptime on the whole raid, or instant recast whole shield again).
    Ps.: I do play a disc priest and I'm currently 12/14H (Moothz TolBarad).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    The problem is the level 90 talents not da.
    I'm not so sure about it, even though Divine Star is really an overtuned spell... Might be.
    Last edited by moothz; 2014-05-05 at 05:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    The problem is the level 90 talents not da.
    It is definitely the combination of the two. A lack of damage output also makes Disc seem stronger than it really is. In a 25m setting, the T6 talents make us insane. Fix DR and we're far from the best healing class for raw output (resto shamans will absolutely dominate us.) Now imagine that damage was constant (think Thok) and intense, or that all healing was nerfed enough that even less intense damage overwhelmed absorbs quickly.

    In that scenario, the scenario they're going for in WoD, Disc suddenly doesn't look so hot. We go back to what made us strong--using absorbs to buffer in prep for damage, not getting insane absorbs from our normal healing that snipes everyone else. On Magaera, particularly on 10m, disc was strong because it could spirit shell before each rampage on earlier kills (before gear made the DPS fast enough to prevent this.) It was a huge buffer and helped a lot. I think Disc being able to do that is fine. What doesn't make any sense is when we can then stack up and continue doing insane hps that puts up powerful shields before anyone else can even heal. Yet on rampage, prior to Disc's overgearing it, resto shamans were still better AFTER the rampage started. Their CDs were perfectly timed, and their stacked HPS was great.

    Disc should have that niche role of being able to prep for damage with shields. We're not losing that. SS and PW:S will still be in the game along with Inner Focus for DA's. What we're losing is the capability to then use DS/Halo or even Cascade to a lesser extent to continue producing incredibly strong DAs, all while our most effective healing otherwise is to just DPS the boss (for a noticeable amount) and have that DPS be converted into smart healing, which also makes more shields. They're fixing the latter. We're keeping the former. So long as they give us decent AoE healing to compensate, which Holy Nova and PoH are hopefully going to do, we'll be perfectly fine.

  12. #12
    Perfectly said about the niche! I'm worried that they do some terrible things with Divine Aegis, there haven't been much explanatory blue posts about how they're gonna "tone down shields".
    I'm really looking forward to the Holy Nova and PoH kit for disc. I want to keep playing disc for that exact reason. It just hit me - that things that make this DA look hot may not (and will probably not) be present in WoD anymore...

  13. #13
    Giving healer absorbs, if not all absorbs, the "block" (i.e. mitigates a % of damage instead of all damage until gone) treatment has been suggested many times before. Imo it's a very good idea and would work to prevent absorb "sniping" even if/when the Blizzard's "the raid won't be topped off all of the time" falls by the wayside as we gear up/go to mythic mode.
    Last edited by Kitmajere; 2014-05-05 at 09:42 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kassadin View Post
    Would this not be stronger for high levels of burst than our current implementation of absorbs?
    Excuse me but how would shields only healing for half of their current healing make them an even bigger problem?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitmajere View Post
    Imo it's a very good idea and would work to prevent absorb "sniping" even if/when the Blizzard's "the raid won't be topped off all of the time" falls by the wayside as we gear up/go to mythic mode.
    Considering they're doubling the rate at which stamina gives us HP but not doubling the amount of spellpower per int (or other forms of healing stats), HP pools will always be in a place where trying to top off the entire raid may not be wise or even possible (unless you're overhealing an encounter). It'll be like a healer during DS trying to heal up a raid with MoP HP pools, relatively speaking.
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