Glyph of Mind Harvest

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they intend for Shadow Orbs to decay out of combat considering Chi and Holy Power already do. If they will change it is another story, but I remember reading somewhere they didn't like that you had to generate Orbs before a pull, and that they didn't decay out of combat.

More then likely this glyph/perk will mean Shadow Orbs will start to decay out of combat.

The thing about Shadow Orbs vs. HoPo and Chi is that Paladins and Monks have various and reliable ways of generating their class power.

As a holy paladin I can:
Crusader Strike, Judgement (with SH), Holy Shock, Divine Light / Flash of Light (on beacon of light) or Holy Radiance. Not to mention I could use Holy Avenger and get 3 HoPo for all of these.
As a MW monk I can:
Jab, Spinning Crane Kick, Expel Harm, Soothing Mist, Crackling Jade Lightning, Surging Mist, and Chi Brew (if talented).

Shadow priests orb generation overall is poor enough (even with this glyph) that having them decay out of combat would be entirely counterintuitive.

[Count Zero]

Shadow shining on multitarget??? Insane.

EDIT. Put it in perspective: Would it be more OP than ToT's Mannoroth's Fury + Fire and Brimstone + Rain of Fire?

That was OP and got nerfed. Similarly, they are changing Drain Soul to only grant one shard on enemy death. It's a bit different since Afflic can use those shards to instantly apply 3 dots to a target ... but imagine a fight like Will of the Emperor, with two main targets and an endless stream of adds ... Afflic had its dots adjusted like every single tier because of its multidot capabilities ... in the end they'll try what they can to keep things balanced, but I'd be careful about cheering for this change ... could wind up they have to nerf DP if you're getting too many orbs from this glyph.

[Dierdre]

That was OP and got nerfed.

I was actually waiting for a warlock to chime in. Yes it was nerfed. So it's slightly less OP. It's still absurdly OP and the strongest AoE in the game, in a level that would not likely be attained by this glyph / perk.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they intend for Shadow Orbs to decay out of combat considering Chi and Holy Power already do. If they will change it is another story, but I remember reading somewhere they didn't like that you had to generate Orbs before a pull, and that they didn't decay out of combat.

More then likely this glyph/perk will mean Shadow Orbs will start to decay out of combat.

..will start to decay out of combat once again.

It used to stay around for 1 minute.

The thing about Shadow Orbs vs. HoPo and Chi is that Paladins and Monks have various and reliable ways of generating their class power.

As a holy paladin I can:
Crusader Strike, Judgement (with SH), Holy Shock, Divine Light / Flash of Light (on beacon of light) or Holy Radiance. Not to mention I could use Holy Avenger and get 3 HoPo for all of these.
As a MW monk I can:
Jab, Spinning Crane Kick, Expel Harm, Soothing Mist, Crackling Jade Lightning, Surging Mist, and Chi Brew (if talented).

Shadow priests orb generation overall is poor enough (even with this glyph) that having them decay out of combat would be entirely counterintuitive.

Your two examples are both healers. Mistweaver and Holy Pala are healers.

Retri and Windwalker are not healers.

EDIT. Put it in perspective: Would it be more OP than ToT's Mannoroth's Fury + Fire and Brimstone + Rain of Fire?

F&B had 34 yd in 5.0 with MF. Amount of yd got nerfed. I remember breaking CC on boss #4 HoF LFR, almost got me kicked too.

[Tokas]

So how will it determine the "first" hit? If it's once per entering combat then that could be really OP in PvP with Spectral Guise.

You stay in combat with SG.

[Setheria]

You stay in combat with SG.

It seems buggy for me and occasionally drops combat. I'd assume others have the same experience. It would certainly happen in pvp.

[Raone]

Seems like I was correct, Shadow Orbs will decay out of combat. Celestalon just replied about it on twitter.

Celestalon ‏@Celestalon 4h
@RussellCane Yes, though slowly. (Offhand I believe it's 20sec til it starts decaying, then 5sec per. Something close to that.)

So this makes this glyph mandatory for every PvE fight, even single target.

[Dierdre]

It seems buggy for me and occasionally drops combat. I'd assume others have the same experience. It would certainly happen in pvp.

You drop threat with SG. 0 threat ≠ out of combat. The player/add/boss remains in combat as long as there's someone on the threat table. E.G: Siegecrafter Blackfuse doesn't reset when you use SG. Likewise, he wouldn't award you another glyph proc.

[Deleted]

..will start to decay out of combat once again.

It used to stay around for 1 minute.

Your two examples are both healers. Mistweaver and Holy Pala are healers.

Retri and Windwalker are not healers.

F&B had 34 yd in 5.0 with MF. Amount of yd got nerfed. I remember breaking CC on boss #4 HoF LFR, almost got me kicked too.

I am surprisingly aware that mistwaver and holy paladin are healing specialisaions, however, other than one fateful afternoon I've not played Ret/WW and the spells that generate chi were eluding me at the time, though I was aware they were plentiful.

WW:
Jab (no CD, resource cost balance scaling with haste), Spinning Crane Kick (no CD), Chi Brew (2 every 45s).

Ret:
Crusader's Strike (4.5s CD), Judgement (6s CD) - CDs scale with haste. Exorcism (15s, regular procs), Hammer of Wrath (6s but only under 20% health). Holy Avenger to generate 3 HoPo for every ability if talented.

Shadow:
Mind Blast (8sec CD - no haste scaling), Shadow Word: Death (6s but only under 20% health).

I hope my point between orb disparity is so high that decay out of combat is not particularly fair. However, if we would like to be anal and proclaim that WW and Ret are melee specs, we could look towards warlock resources, but even then, none of them begin the fight with 0 of their resource, and generation is much faster and reiably scales with gear.

[Keosen]

Yay more excuses to plunder further our pathetic single target DPS (you are good on fights with adds)

[Deleted]

You drop threat with SG. 0 threat ≠ out of combat. The player/add/boss remains in combat as long as there's someone on the threat table. E.G: Siegecrafter Blackfuse doesn't reset when you use SG. Likewise, he wouldn't award you another glyph proc.

I can reset blackfuse with SG :/

[Deleted]

Really good change for spriest, now I want my TEB perk/glyph for my windwalker too.

[deviantcultist]

So this makes this glyph mandatory for every PvE fight, even single target.

In this case, they will turn it into a perk. For numerous reasons, I find this change along with Readiness affecting Mind Blast quite refreshing.

[Juicebox]

Confirmed, and I'm happy for this change with Mind Harvest staying. It's still a pure buff.


I also forgot to mention they're not 100% sure that procs like DI/FDCL will work with multistrike.

[villie]

Cool glyph/perk, now im getting more into arena with my new sp, the orb ramp up mechanic is quite annoying, since i play with a rogue. This will be such a amazing qol change and open up much more comps and allow much needed on demand burst in the openers.

On a side note, SG does drop combat, i regularly use it to drop and drink in arena, however the mechanic celestalon is talking about i believe will be when you mind blast a target it will place a debuff on that target, like CoE, that is hidden and will remain on the target until it dies regardless of dropping combat. Makes sense and is an easy solution to problem, your dots don't fall off when you drop combat so why should it.

Actually just thinking, i would be even better if blizz made the debuff visible to only the sp that has cast it, therefore would be far easier to keep track on add fights which adds you havent MB'd for optimal generation, otherwise no doubt an addon will be spawned to accomplish this.

[Dierdre]

I can reset blackfuse with SG :/

Once no one else has threat, yes.

- - - Updated - - -

In this case, they will turn it into a perk.

Hopefully.

[Deleted]

SG does not drop combat, it puts you in stealth with 0 threat, like Shadowmeld, but much more temporary. If there is nobody else with any threat the boss resets.

I am surprisingly aware that mistwaver and holy paladin are healing specialisaions

Good, then don't compare apples to oranges.

however, other than one fateful afternoon I've not played Ret/WW and the spells that generate chi were eluding me at the time, though I was aware they were plentiful.

That and your list is irrelevant.

What you need to know is that they cannot generate their resource out of combat, and it decays out of combat.

What you also need to know is that their burst builds up slowly, compared to one Warlock spec, and akin to us.

I hope my point between orb disparity is so high that decay out of combat is not particularly fair.

Compared to Retri and WW, why not?

However, if we would like to be anal and proclaim that WW and Ret are melee specs, we could look towards warlock resources, but even then, none of them begin the fight with 0 of their resource, and generation is much faster and reiably scales with gear.

Destruction's Ember and Demonology's Fury require both combat to build up, and both resource decay out of combat.

Affliction works different. They start with full resource of 4 Soul Shards, and if they are half decent they snipe their Soulburn 20-30 seconds before boss is pulled (or 10-20 seconds before 10 seconds pull timer) which is also nigh annoying. Their regen of Soul Shards requires execute which is very different from ours.

[Dierdre]

Destruction's Ember and Demonology's Fury require both combat to build up, and both resource decay out of combat.

Neither decay to 0. Both destro and demo have enough OOC resources for burst on pull.

[Deleted]

Neither decay to 0. Both destro and demo have enough OOC resources for burst on pull.

Yeah, but they do decay to near zero whereas we can generate one orb on pull.

Destruction's and Demonology's burst is a joke compared to Affliction's. Demonology's burst was a beast in ToT, partly due to UVLS.

Then again, Power Infusion is a joke compared to Dark Soul, and Dark Soul is baseline for all 3 Warlock specs.

[l33t]

Well, am I the only Shadow priest here who is waiting for another -15% flat damage output decrease due to this glyph?

Glyph is amazing though! /cheers

Also, it looks like the most mandatory glyph ever created. Maybe they should make it baseline? I hardly can imagine anyone not taking this glyph...