Remove LFR completely?

[Galluccio]

With this new flexible mode there should be no more excuses on inability to find raid members,

So, what's your stance on this?

That's cute... no more excuses.. Good stuff.

How's this as an excuse? Work, Family?
The ability for some people to schedule off "blocks" of time each week is impossible (on the same day and time each week for years). Even if it's just 2 hours twice a week. Some people's schedules aren't that flexible.

Thus, the idea of a raid finder allows people to form a quick group whenever they have time. And, it allows them to also leave a group quickly without consequence. Try leaving a organized group quickly? You'll never get invited back or you'll let people down.

[xenogear3]

LFR must die

[Templis]

That's cute... no more excuses.. Good stuff.

How's this as an excuse? Work, Family?
The ability for some people to schedule off "blocks" of time each week is impossible (on the same day and time each week for years). Even if it's just 2 hours twice a week. Some people's schedules aren't that flexible.

Thus, the idea of a raid finder allows people to form a quick group whenever they have time.

I'm not sure how work and family factor into this. It's currently a lot quicker to find a flex group via OQ and complete a wing than it is to sit in LFR queue for god knows how long. The notion that LFR is significantly faster is really not accurate, and I think most players who are too shy to even attempt a higher difficulty (which I think is more prevalent than some people might think) would be surprised just at how capable they would be in an environment that offered a very minimal increase in performance with a significant payout in terms of loot.

The thing is most people don't even try. A lot of players feel quarantined to LFR and that that's where they belong while LFR which, to me at least, seems horribly inconvenient with its long queue times, high rate of players leaving, and failure rate.

[Galluccio]

I would donate money out of my own pocket to Blizzard if they completely removed LFR.

How much money exactly?

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I'm not sure how work and family factor into this.

Well, let me think... A client calls me at 6 pm and needs my help... The raid is at 7 pm. What do you think I'm going to do?

My kid is crying and wants me to read a book at 8:15 during raid? What do you think I'm going to do?

I'm awake at 6 AM and no one else is awake at the moment, there's no raid out there to join except for LFR.

A lot of people would view playing a game as being lazy surprisingly enough.

[Asmekiel]

How much money exactly?

For $20 they'll remove the option to queue for and enter LFR.

[Templis]

How much money exactly?

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Well, let me think... A client calls me at 6 pm and needs my help... The raid is at 7 pm. What do you think I'm going to do?

My kid is crying and wants me to read a book at 8:15 during raid? What do you think I'm going to do?

I'm awake at 6 AM and no one else is awake at the moment, there's no raid out there to join except for LFR.

But that's not true. You can do flex on your own time by pugging it. If you gotta leave halfway through you just excuse yourself and leave, then pick it up again later and join a new run or find a raid in progress that's looking. It requires just as much commitment to a schedule as LFR, which is none.

Flex requires no guild. In fact, the fact that it is flexible hints at that it was designed to cater to pugs. Don't knock it until you try it. Get OQ and just give it a shot. I think you'd be surprised as just how easy it is.

[Rainsorrow]

how its going to be if you remove LFR - "casual" players will not want run dungeons over and over again, get bored by game, unsub, wow will loose subs in numbers, players will be shouting "its because WoD sucks QQ" and the history will repeat, and again...and again
don't try to response with "you can level alt" - you can, but then what? run dungeons too? or level another alt? and another? and with all characters at lvl 100 with full dungeons do what? try to get into flex, and when you find after hour or two decent group, you need to go away, so you waste your game time (which could be used in LFR)
i tried going flex (because all i do is lfr, or farm equip in other ways), group was formed in about 45 minutes (yep, try to get tank on trade...), we got inside, wiped on first trash pack, wiped second time, third time, tanks and healers left, group disbanded, and my time nicely wasted

flex is NOT a good replacement for LFR, it should be as it is now, maybe slightly harder so you need to look on websites and learn what to do, and if you screw raid mechanics, you get "banned" from lfr for a time, maybe for few hours for first time, more hours for second, day for third etc, without reseting and (just imagination) some thingy that will make sure you cant take an advantage to "troll" other players (like for fake reporting, you get penalty)

[Templis]

Those aren't the issues. Pugging died in WoW because of one major issue: Ninja looting. Nothing pisses people off more than working hard at something and having their reward stolen away. As a matter of fact when Flex debuted there was an initial blind panic because that is EXACTLY what raid leaders started doing - changing the loot settings in combat and then stealing all the epics. LFR makes ninja looting impossible. And my understanding is that flex will have a personal loot option as well as the fix (which might be implemented) that prevents loot options from being changed in combat. I'm not willing to waste my time and energy "playing the game" if I'm going to be cheated out of a reward or even a possible reward. No one will. People only used to "tolerate" ninja looting because they didn't have a choice and then little by little Blizz put features in the game to make it harder and harder from scum to do this.

Flex already has the personal loot option, unless that's being changed. Players who don't respect loot etiquette can turn a good run sour, that's true, but since we have a viable solution for this in place it should no longer be an issue. There are a lot of good options for puggers at the moment and I honestly think they'll get better in WoD.

[Nihilist74]

Unless you handpick the group yourself or the leader of the flex group you happen to join knows what hes doing, flex groups are often not any better than lfr groups.
I like to tank a lot so when I set up a group in oque for flex 1 it was pretty easy since it is harder to find a tank.
If you are handpicking a group of random people for flex, you are not going to want to pick the classes or specs that are not known to be op or good in there fields. If you want to play an affliction lock instead of destruction, shadow priest, if you want to play marksman hunter instead of survival, then no one will pick you for there flex group. Some of these people may be really good at playing these specs but they have to prove it because the majority are not good at these specs.
If you are a tank or healer, flex is fast. If you are a dps, you have to wait a lot longer to get into a flex raid.
These people have no other choice than LFR to gear up.
Personally I don't have a problem with the tier being removed from lfr even though its being removed because of normal raiders who are acting like babies. Its really just an ego trip for them.
As long as LFR is a tool to get higher item level gear to help you progress, I'm fine with it. I will use it a lot. I'm a really bad altaholic and it sounds like the wod lfr will be even better for gearing your alts with higher drop chances.

[MoanaLisa]

Blizzard says that the reason Normal+ raiders feel forced to do LFR is because of set bonuses and trinkets. Does removing those from LFR not fix the problem?

Given that Raid Finder gear will be somewhat better than Heroic Dungeon gear it's questionable if that's fixed or not. The problem in this case is not and never really has been Raid Finder. It's people who don't want to be there convincing themselves that they have to run it. There are plenty of people around who are raiding just fine that never saw the inside of Raid Finder during the entire expansion. It's a little harder and takes a little longer. So people take the easy way out and complain about the easy way out even existing. So better gear than heroics will mean that those same people will again feel forced if they need anything at all.

[rulee]

LFR was the reason that I got into the game. I've "played" since 2005, meaning I bought the game and played on and off every couple months then took years off in between resubs. I would do the 10 free day trial thing then stop. I subbed this past december and I got hooked on LFR simply because I could now "raid" and see end game content. I couldn't do that before because I didn't have time to raid with guilds. Now I can pop on for an hour, tank a LFR, and be done. But now that I've done LFR, I've stepped into Flex and normal. So I've had the longest running sub time that I've ever had since I began playing and it was because LFR hooked me in.

Since I'm flex/normal geared now, I just don't step foot in LFR because it drives me crazy but I like that it's still there for my alts.

It'd be silly to remove it and these threads are pretty useless. Just complaining to complain about something.

[Banzhe]

LFR was the reason that I got into the game. I've "played" since 2005, meaning I bought the game and played on and off every couple months then took years off in between resubs. I would do the 10 free day trial thing then stop. I subbed this past december and I got hooked on LFR simply because I could now "raid" and see end game content. I couldn't do that before because I didn't have time to raid with guilds. Now I can pop on for an hour, tank a LFR, and be done. But now that I've done LFR, I've stepped into Flex and normal. So I've had the longest running sub time that I've ever had since I began playing and it was because LFR hooked me in.

Since I'm flex/normal geared now, I just don't step foot in LFR because it drives me crazy but I like that it's still there for my alts.

It'd be silly to remove it and these threads are pretty useless. Just complaining to complain about something.

Everything is silly and comes as complaining just to complain, if the person reading doesn't align with the views of the poster

[Sansnom]

I'd personally much prefer it if pre normal mode raid progression was done in TBC style HC's

LFR is blizzards attempt to put lipstick on a pig, it would be much better if blizzard just accepted that the bulk of the playerbase doesn't want to raid and cut spending on raids and made other content instead.

They can do that. I have no objections to this. This will mean there will be less raids per expansion. Will the raiders accepts this?

[Mirishka]

Everyone who put some actual effort into the game. If someone doesn't have the time, he shouldn't be able to see everything at the same pace as someone who actually tried to accomplish something by himself, and not get it handed to him.

This post is incredibly stupid.

Skilled raiders have cleared everything by the time LFR even has all its wings opened. So spare us the bullshit 'omg QQ LFR bads shouldnt be able to see raids when I can' hyperbolic whinefest.

Also, this is probably the part where I should remind you that WoW is a video game, not a life lesson or an accomplishment to take to your grave. People like you, with your running around and crying OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE CASUALZ CAN SEE THE SAME POLYGONZ AND TEXTUREZ AS LEET PLAYERS LIKE ME.. I think you guys need to go play outside more.

[lawow74]

Nope. Just make it a 25-man Scenario, remove the need for Tanks and Heals completely. All the whiners and crybabies who had their inner child molested by being 'forced' to run LFR got their wish, now they never have to play with all those dirty casuals and bads ever again.

At least until the backlash from this hits Blizzard in the face like a tightly-wound wet towel and they realize what a horribly stupid and arrogant stance they took, just like the start of Cata.

Automated queues for Flex inc by 6.3. Count on it.

[Paulosio]

LMAO what kind of statement is this?? WOD's normal modes like be like MOP's flex mode, aka EASY and COMPLETELY puggable. Cataclysm did NOT have that.

Flex is too hard for a large proportion of the player base... There's a reason most people making groups for flex wont take people lower than 540-550 ilvl.

[Santti]

I feel LFR has it's place. I see no reason to remove it.

[Templis]

Flex is too hard for a large proportion of the player base... There's a reason most people making groups for flex wont take people lower than 540-550 ilvl.

Flex honestly feels at the same difficulty level of LFR with slightly higher gear requirements.

[Seefer]

This post is incredibly stupid.

Skilled raiders have cleared everything by the time LFR even has all its wings opened. So spare us the bullshit 'omg QQ LFR bads shouldnt be able to see raids when I can' hyperbolic whinefest.

Also, this is probably the part where I should remind you that WoW is a video game, not a life lesson or an accomplishment to take to your grave. People like you, with your running around and crying OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE CASUALZ CAN SEE THE SAME POLYGONZ AND TEXTUREZ AS LEET PLAYERS LIKE ME.. I think you guys need to go play outside more.

This is the only video game that EVERYONE can see the end to regardless of skill, if I suck a Call of Duty or God of War or any other video game I won't be able to beat it, I'm sorry but you can either do it or you can't, the game company shouldn't hold your hand like mommy and daddy and say "It's ok there are no losers" to quote George Carlin "Everyone needs to hear YOU'RE A LOSE BILLY! at least once in their life"

[Thimagryn]

45mins sign me up, oh 1 hour queue time, nope. Would be nice if LFR functioned like it is supposed to be, but MoP shows how much bullshit the time argument is with rarely a complaint about it yet players will keep saying it is fine and casual, bullshit it is no-lifer is what it is.

So why the hell are you complaining about a feature you don't use? Unless you are using it and are dissatisfied to the point where you feel it should be pulled just because you don't like it.