View Poll Results: Would you support Blizzard removing LFR

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  • Yes, remove LFR

    256 35.31%
  • No, keep it

    433 59.72%
  • Undecided

    36 4.97%
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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    I'd much more like to force the most bad people into proving grounds before they can que up again something like
    "You performed terribly in your previous LFR please complete proving grounds begore queing for Lfr again"
    And that is exactly why LFR in WoD requires silver from PG.

    Trolls and professional asshats is what's wrong with LFR, not underperformers.

  2. #422
    Neither of the above two solutions will do anything but antagonize and alienate players further. If you get disconnected from LFR you suddenly have a 24h cooldown. Adding gates to LFR is nonsensical since it is supposed to be absolutely entry level given the difficulty.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    And that is exactly why LFR in WoD requires silver from PG.

    Trolls and professional asshats is what's wrong with LFR, not underperformers.
    LFR does not require PG silver, only 5Hs require that.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    If you get disconnected from LFR you suddenly have a 24h cooldown.
    DC would not trip any of those things I outlined above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    LFR does not require PG silver, only 5Hs require that.
    Not confirmed, but they've talked about PG achievements being requirement for using the raid finder, not just item level. It could mean using higher difficulties or all difficulties, or different achis for different difficulties.

  5. #425
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Not confirmed, but they've talked about PG achievements being requirement for using the raid finder, not just item level. It could mean using higher difficulties or all difficulties, or different achis for different difficulties.
    They talked about letting you use Proving Grounds to bypass the item level check, not gating it behind Proving Grounds entirely. The only reason they're doing it with 5-man Heroics is because matchmade groups in Cata Heroics were an unmitigated disaster until 4.3 introduced the easier Hour of Twilight Heroics. Fully-premade groups can still queue without the medal and you can solo-queue for the MoP-easy level 100 Normal 5-mans which will be sufficient for gearing up for LFR.

  6. #426
    Yes! Remove it. Cause the players who are not willing to put time and effort into the MMO game should NOT see the same content than the ones who are..

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Have legendary quest chains been confirmed for WoD? I think that system has been absolutely horrid in this expansion. Basically put up a several month long barrier for new characters to get into raiding. Been super alt unfriendly and new player unfriendly. Hopefully they will get rid of that system.
    In one of the recent chats, the dev acknowledged the alt problem with the LQC, and said a new LQC in WoD would not require alts to repeat the steps.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-438

    "Having to redo the grinding parts of the legendary quest chain again on alts also wasn't great, so in the future this would be something that you can skip on alts."

    As for new players, that's working as intended. Blizzard doesn't want people not sending them $$$ for most the expansion, and just jumping in at the end. So there's a cost if you do that.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2014-05-06 at 02:28 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    In one of the recent chats, the dev acknowledged the alt problem with the LQC, and said a new LQC in WoD would not require alts to repeat the steps.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-438

    "Having to redo the grinding parts of the legendary quest chain again on alts also wasn't great, so in the future this would be something that you can skip on alts."

    As for new players, that's working as intended. Blizzard doesn't want people not sending them $$$ for most the expansion, and just jumping in at the end. So there's a cost if you do that.
    For new players, I might agree it works as intended. The problem becomes returning players that played before. People that played before and the is startig again do not want to be behind a 2 month artificial roadblock to play with friends. The biggest problem with it is that it is completely out of your hands. It is not like you can put in extra time and catch up. You simply do the grind every week and wait for the next week.

    Having a time gate in the current tier may be goodish, but it gets quite insane when you have multiple tiers to catch up through. For example in 5.4, the sigils, valor and secrets feels way overkill for the legendary chain. Simply requiring to complete those raids and getting the runestones feels like it would be enough.

    I would actually much prefer if the grind was limited by time spent in-game, not time passed irl.
    For example, instead of having a quest like the 6k valor points requiring 6 weeks to complete, make the quest require say 15 hours of grinding or so to complete. That way you can decide to spend one day, one week, six weeks or twelve weeks to complete that grind. As a returning player if you wanted to catch up you would have the option to do so by simply putting more time into the game instead of being a helpless bystander just waiting to be able to catch up.

    I think the entire subject is tricky, there is a lot that could be done in it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #429
    Herald of the Titans ReleaseDay's Avatar
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    Ofc not. It just needs some polishing.
    There was no such thing as "ability bloat" just l2fp.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    And that is exactly why LFR in WoD requires silver from PG.

    Trolls and professional asshats is what's wrong with LFR, not underperformers.
    I have found that the majority of problems in LFR are caused by 'short timers', people who only show up long enough to run lfr until the final boss of the tier dies and then they unsub and run off to the games they would rather be playing. These people show up a few weeks before the tier drops to gear up to qualify for the next tier and turn LFR into a wipe fest until a month later when the final boss dies. These players have no intention to learn strats, gem, enchant, reforge or learn rotations. They just don't care. Once the boss goes down and they leave the competency in LFR sky rockets until a few weeks before the next tier when they come back in preperation of the next tier when it falls to shit again.

    No raid guild wants these guys as they have no intentions of helping the group gear up for the next tier and are in the wind as fast as possible.

    The rest who raid in LFR and use it for an end game tend to farm it every week, want to complete an armor set and know the mechanics, try and want everything to go as efficiently as possible and are not the problem.

  11. #431
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    Yes! Remove it. Cause the players who are not willing to put time and effort into the MMO game should NOT see the same content than the ones who are..
    Then adjust raiding accordingly. Give it a reduced budget and move all the conclusions to major story arcs out of raids and into 5-mans, scenarios, and world content. Design item sets for 5-mans and give dungeons and world content the lion's share of the development budget. There's your choice: keep getting raid development propped up by LFR, or go back to Firelands and Dragon Soul every tier while we get brand-new art a la Well of Eternity.

  12. #432
    Moderator Pendra's Avatar
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    Blizzard would probably even lose a lot less subs if they'd remove Heroic (or Mythic with WoD) difficulties.

    Does anyone here really think that they are that stupid, or is this thread just another occasion to vent about something some people don't like?

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    The people who want it removed want the game returned to an elitist paradise. These are the people who have not figured out that being elite (the best at something) is not the same as being an elitist (who believe they deserve special recognition and rewards based on a percieved superiority) and that being an elitist has never been used as a compliment. "Oh him? He's great, he's a real elitist.", said no one ever.
    Before I got into heroic mode raiding back years ago with 24 others, I used to sit in SW or Org and oogle at the gear others had, and that's what made me want to get better at my class and raid with an organized group. Being an "elitist" as you call it doesn't necessarily mean being a jerk, talking down to others, or not helping those who need education on their class. There's too much generalizing in the WoW community. Ya, I know.. welcome the internet, but still. I am a very nice, helpful, compassionate 25M heroic raider. I got there because way back when I oogled at the guys wearing those purples and wanted them so bad. I did not have LFR to queue for.. in fact there really wasn't a queue system at all at the end of BC. Now, I still raid with those same people.. we have a great time.. and it's just an amazingly rewarding hobby. Not everyone with a 576 ilvl (such as myself) is a jerk and an elitist. In fact.. quite honestly, most are not.

  14. #434
    in some way I want it gone

    - - - Updated - - -

    but then its kinda handy for gearing alts and such

  15. #435
    Why do so many people forget that it's going to be a gearing alternative to doing Heroic Dungeons in WoD? I'd rather have the option of not doing H Dungeons to get some gear, to be perfectly honest. I got really burned out on them in Cata, which is why I didn't do them much at all in MoP. Having LFR as an alternative means I can switch back and forth between the two for gear before I get ready to try and do Normal with my guild.

    Also: If you don't do LFR, it existing does NOTHING to you, so stop asking for it's removal. And you people wonder why others think you are elitist jerks...

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Meiluy View Post
    Why do so many people forget that it's going to be a gearing alternative to doing Heroic Dungeons in WoD? I'd rather have the option of not doing H Dungeons to get some gear, to be perfectly honest. I got really burned out on them in Cata, which is why I didn't do them much at all in MoP. Having LFR as an alternative means I can switch back and forth between the two for gear before I get ready to try and do Normal with my guild.

    Also: If you don't do LFR, it existing does NOTHING to you, so stop asking for it's removal. And you people wonder why others think you are elitist jerks...
    I disagree with those asking for it to be removed, but it does affect the entire community. When those who queue for LFR and get all purples and decent gear, it almost takes away their carrot on a stick, so to speak. If there is such easy accessibility to very decent gear, why put in the effort to improving your knowledge of your class, learning boss mechanics, being social and joining a guild? The myth that people need 20-30 hours a week to raid heroic modes is kind of 2009. It's just not necessary. Our 25M guild raids about 6-9 hours a week (depending on peoples lateness) and we're nearly 11/14 heroic mode, almost have Heroic Spoils down. If someone in Shrine sees my gear, but they have "beaten" LFR and have full purples.. it really gives him no reason to want to improve and play better and better the WoW community as a whole. The more better, knowledgeable players in the community, the better the game as a whole will be.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeline10 View Post
    I disagree with those asking for it to be removed, but it does affect the entire community. When those who queue for LFR and get all purples and decent gear, it almost takes away their carrot on a stick, so to speak. If there is such easy accessibility to very decent gear, why put in the effort to improving your knowledge of your class, learning boss mechanics, being social and joining a guild? The myth that people need 20-30 hours a week to raid heroic modes is kind of 2009. It's just not necessary. Our 25M guild raids about 6-9 hours a week (depending on peoples lateness) and we're nearly 11/14 heroic mode, almost have Heroic Spoils down. If someone in Shrine sees my gear, but they have "beaten" LFR and have full purples.. it really gives him no reason to want to improve and play better and better the WoW community as a whole. The more better, knowledgeable players in the community, the better the game as a whole will be.
    Purples haven't meant anything since Wrath, so don't get so caught up on that thing. Keep in mind, that while an LFR player may have all their purples from SoO and you're only halfway through gearing SoO normal with the rest ToT Normal, you STILL have better gear than them over all. As far as giving them no motive, if they want to experience the harder raiding, there's nothing necessarily stopping them from doing so. If LFR didn't exist, they just wouldn't raid. LFR existing means more players have a reason to continue paying $15 a month to play, and business wise that's a good thing. Heck, community-wise that's a good thing. I know three guildies who have fallen in love with Raiding because of LFR, when before they thought it a waste of time. They are some of our best DPSers (and one tank) in our Normal runs now.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeline10 View Post
    I disagree with those asking for it to be removed, but it does affect the entire community. When those who queue for LFR and get all purples and decent gear, it almost takes away their carrot on a stick, so to speak. If there is such easy accessibility to very decent gear, why put in the effort to improving your knowledge of your class, learning boss mechanics, being social and joining a guild? The myth that people need 20-30 hours a week to raid heroic modes is kind of 2009. It's just not necessary. Our 25M guild raids about 6-9 hours a week (depending on peoples lateness) and we're nearly 11/14 heroic mode, almost have Heroic Spoils down. If someone in Shrine sees my gear, but they have "beaten" LFR and have full purples.. it really gives him no reason to want to improve and play better and better the WoW community as a whole. The more better, knowledgeable players in the community, the better the game as a whole will be.
    1) No one says, "Oh, 528, that's just like 570+ because it's purple.

    2) No one says, "I beat the game because I did LFR."

    3) If anyone DOES say those things, that person was never going to be "chasing the carrot" of heroic raids in the first place, so why does it matter?

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Meiluy View Post
    Purples haven't meant anything since Wrath, so don't get so caught up on that thing. Keep in mind, that while an LFR player may have all their purples from SoO and you're only halfway through gearing SoO normal with the rest ToT Normal, you STILL have better gear than them over all. As far as giving them no motive, if they want to experience the harder raiding, there's nothing necessarily stopping them from doing so. If LFR didn't exist, they just wouldn't raid. LFR existing means more players have a reason to continue paying $15 a month to play, and business wise that's a good thing. Heck, community-wise that's a good thing. I know three guildies who have fallen in love with Raiding because of LFR, when before they thought it a waste of time. They are some of our best DPSers (and one tank) in our Normal runs now.
    Agreed. The more people subscribed, the more money, the more they can hire, the better the game, etc.. that's an easy concept to understand. However, the feeling of seeing others in SW or Org and wanting to achieve their status and get the gear they got is gone. That magical feeling of seeing someone who has achieved far more, and continuing to subscribe in hopes of improving and getting on their level. I believe that's how most MMO's get their popularity.. at least the semi-successful ones. And WoW is really on another level when it comes to MMO's and the genre-defining features they implement. It doesn't directly affect ANYONE when ANYONE runs a BG, a heroic dungeon, a scenario, or LFR.. but there are MANY MANY indirect ways LFR DOES affect the community. Mostly in a negative way. Some positive, but mostly negative.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    1) No one says, "Oh, 528, that's just like 570+ because it's purple.

    2) No one says, "I beat the game because I did LFR."

    3) If anyone DOES say those things, that person was never going to be "chasing the carrot" of heroic raids in the first place, so why does it matter?
    You're missing my point, and that's okay.. I may not have been clear enough.

    The only way to get that GOOD gear in the past was gearing up in heroic dungeons, and then getting in raiding. Now, all you have to do is hit "queue" and get into LFR, which is essentially the same raid but with zero rules, no raid leader, no mechanics, no anything. So, no, no one says "I've beaten the game because I've been carried through LFR." However, there is a hugely negative impact when those who would have initially taken the time to learn their class, get better, and take the dive into real raiding choose NOT to because they can do LFR.

    This doesn't apply to those who don't have time to raid or scheduling issues or whatever. This is strictly for people who now don't want to take the time to learn to play and get into a guild and raid for real, but instead just hit a button and do, as Blizzard says, a scenic tour of the content they created. Granted.. Blizzard spends so, so many hours and tons of money creating these raids, they want all 7 million people to see it. But, once you take the exclusiveness away, the feeling of WANTING to get better at the game and learn your class to EARN better gear goes out the window for a lot of people.

  20. #440
    The only way to get that GOOD gear in the past was gearing up in heroic dungeons, and then getting in raiding. Now, all you have to do is hit "queue" and get into LFR, which is essentially the same raid but with zero rules, no raid leader, no mechanics, no anything. So, no, no one says "I've beaten the game because I've been carried through LFR." However, there is a hugely negative impact when those who would have initially taken the time to learn their class, get better, and take the dive into real raiding choose NOT to because they can do LFR.


    1) You could get "good gear" just fine without raiding in Vanilla/TBC though. In fact, the gap between 5-man gear and raid gear was actually smaller than LFR to Heroic gear is now. The only difference is the purple color, which no one else is obsessing about.

    2) History disagrees with you. People in Vanilla/TBC clearly weren't super motivated to get better and raid, because only a tiny, tiny fraction of people raided at all. Even if you don't count LFR, more people raid today than in Vanilla/TBC, so if your stated goal is to get more people learning their class and raiding, then you're getting it right now.

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