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  1. #1

    DK, rogue or hunter burst damage/survivability

    So who has the most dangerous burst and who best survivability out of the 3? I've watched all three classes put out some pretty mean numbers. Which one is the toughest for you under the control of a good player?

  2. #2
    High Overlord heartless8604's Avatar
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    Warrior, but out of those 3 I would say it's a toss up between the DK and the hunter. I'm playing a rogue, and honestly they're not that strong at all unless you're in capped gear and even then they're gimmicky as hell. You have to be Sub and you all your burst is around shadow dance. As for their survivability it's kinda crap right now. You can get stun locked from full to nothing because of the sheer abundance of CC and bursts in the game and rogues low innate survivability.

    Though I'm not a good pvper so my views are almost entirely useless.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    Warrior, but out of those 3 I would say it's a toss up between the DK and the hunter. I'm playing a rogue, and honestly they're not that strong at all unless you're in capped gear and even then they're gimmicky as hell. You have to be Sub and you all your burst is around shadow dance. As for their survivability it's kinda crap right now. You can get stun locked from full to nothing because of the sheer abundance of CC and bursts in the game and rogues low innate survivability.

    Though I'm not a good pvper so my views are almost entirely useless.
    Yea I watched a DK put out 3 mil damage on a pvp geared target in under 45 seconds while the target getting healed by a disc priest. And still managed to kill the target which amazed me. So I'm just kind of curious about the three classes compared.

  4. #4
    Dks put out incredible damage, but the most "dangerous" burst goes to rogues. This is due to it being quicker, and allows for the kill target and others to be cc'd and things like smokebomb. No other class can force my hpally to bubble solo in the first 8 seconds of a match if I don't get teammate help. Hunters have good burst and high consistent damage with the advantage of being ranged unlike rogues or dks.

    Survivability-wise, they are all fairly iffy. Dks have high passive defensives but lack cds for burst. Hunters have essentially 2 immunity cds and can kite well but are fairly squishy. Rogues probably have the best survivability of the 3 but its all active abilities and playing smartly, so its much more difficult to pull off.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Dks put out incredible damage, but the most "dangerous" burst goes to rogues. This is due to it being quicker, and allows for the kill target and others to be cc'd and things like smokebomb. No other class can force my hpally to bubble solo in the first 8 seconds of a match if I don't get teammate help. Hunters have good burst and high consistent damage with the advantage of being ranged unlike rogues or dks.

    Survivability-wise, they are all fairly iffy. Dks have high passive defensives but lack cds for burst. Hunters have essentially 2 immunity cds and can kite well but are fairly squishy. Rogues probably have the best survivability of the 3 but its all active abilities and playing smartly, so its much more difficult to pull off.
    So with the way its going for the expansion for burst cooldowns, do you think it will change the way most classes play?

  6. #6
    High Overlord heartless8604's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragaflask View Post
    So with the way its going for the expansion for burst cooldowns, do you think it will change the way most classes play?
    Only time will tell, but rogues aren't too hopeful for the expansion. They're neutering CC and not making giving rogues anything in return. The class design is still very old fashioned. Honestly hunters to me seem like they have some chances to shine come the expansion for pvp. Lone wolf talent looks like it may see some hell of awesome uses for surv in pvp. You'll give up some amount of utility but you get a 30% damage increase which seems like it may make pvp pretty interesting and fun.

    We'll have to see how the expansion comes out. Rogues are the second lowest played class at max only beaten by monks who haven't been out that long.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    Only time will tell, but rogues aren't too hopeful for the expansion. They're neutering CC and not making giving rogues anything in return. The class design is still very old fashioned. Honestly hunters to me seem like they have some chances to shine come the expansion for pvp. Lone wolf talent looks like it may see some hell of awesome uses for surv in pvp. You'll give up some amount of utility but you get a 30% damage increase which seems like it may make pvp pretty interesting and fun.

    We'll have to see how the expansion comes out. Rogues are the second lowest played class at max only beaten by monks who haven't been out that long.
    Hmm yea I'm pretty successful against rogues in arenas on my monk who is decently geared but if I run across a decently played hunter or DK, I have a lot of trouble especially if they have a healer and my touch of karma is down.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Anium's Avatar
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    No one can 100 to 0 someone like a rogue if they get the perfect opener, + combos + crits. Downside, you get caught in a bad spot with no feint and recup rolling and you can kiss your ass goodbye.
    Hunter, generally pretty good survivability ( you may find you have to trinket a lot of openers though just so you can dictate play because you ain't getting that hp back unlike most classes nowadays zzzz), kite no end and burst is good.
    Dk, lvling one currently, but from playing with + verus many burst is ridic, dots are amazing, but survivability isn't all that great anymore, still very competitive though.

    All in all if you're asking because you're unsure about the class for you, play the one you enjoy the most. Fun > all/fotm.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragaflask View Post
    Yea I watched a DK put out 3 mil damage on a pvp geared target in under 45 seconds while the target getting healed by a disc priest. And still managed to kill the target which amazed me. So I'm just kind of curious about the three classes compared.
    sad news for pve guys who are mid of the pack or lower gg blizz balance team
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anium View Post
    No one can 100 to 0 someone like a rogue if they get the perfect opener, + combos + crits. Downside, you get caught in a bad spot with no feint and recup rolling and you can kiss your ass goodbye.
    Hunter, generally pretty good survivability ( you may find you have to trinket a lot of openers though just so you can dictate play because you ain't getting that hp back unlike most classes nowadays zzzz), kite no end and burst is good.
    Dk, lvling one currently, but from playing with + verus many burst is ridic, dots are amazing, but survivability isn't all that great anymore, still very competitive though.

    All in all if you're asking because you're unsure about the class for you, play the one you enjoy the most. Fun > all/fotm.
    Well Im just looking at the different comps I can do with my monk versus the dps like rogues, DKs and hunters. Truthfully I would love to run sure dps with my guild when they raid but ive been lucky on my monk enough to do so but looking at other alternatives at this point. I kind of float in between in pvp, definitely having fun with my monk.

  11. #11
    hunter has the worst survivability of the 3 and the worst burst. They make up for it by unpredictable and almost impossible to peel. Our damage comes out in a continuous stream that can only be interrupted with hard cc or line of sight; and that doesn't stop us for long. The pet does a fair chunk as well (I've seen almost 30k crits when it's above 50 focus with it's damage ability) and it provides a lot of utility.

    DK isn't really "burst" but more like "I'm going to kill you and there's not much you can do about it" easier to peel than hunters but still almost unstoppable because they have so many cc breaks. Blood presence is stupid, it really doesn't penalise their damage enough. Probably equal on survivability with rogues depending on what you're facing and MUCH tougher than hunters.

    Rogue burst requires a lot of setup, but if it's done correctly can 100-0 someone in a smoke bomb pretty easily with another person. Survivability is weird, you're a horrible kill target UNTIL you trinket. You have a lot of cds but none can be used while stunned meaning that trinket is basically your life.

  12. #12
    Assuming everything crits, your on demand burst I'd say:

    1. Frost DK
    2. Hunter
    3. Rogue

    Reasons I say this is because, with diseases up, Frost DKs can Unload, Empower Rune Weapon, Unload again. Where as Hunters you really need Instant Aimed Shot up so you can Aimed Shot, Chimera Shot. Rogue requires more finesse and has an actual burst window (Find Weakness), but is devastating when pulled off properly.

    For Survivability, DK has a lot more anti-CC CDs and their heal doesn't take away from their CC or Damage (much) when compared to using Combo Points for the Rogue. Rogues are tricky until you force trinket like Illana said. Keeping feint up (which I'm terrible at) helps a lot.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    They all have sick burst.

    DK burst you have to respect by kiting or using CDs. Hunter burst you have to respect by LoSing and rogue burst you have to respect by using CDs and CCing.

    Rogues definitely have the scariest burst simply because of the CC. Hunters have scary consistent burst and DKs have scary 'every 3 min' burst if you're unholy, or scary constant burst if you're DK.

  14. #14
    DK
    Pressure: 9/10
    Mobility: 5/10
    Survivability: 8/10
    Burst: 6/10

    Hunter
    Pressure: 8/10
    Mobility: 6/10
    Survivability: 6/10
    Burst: 9/10


    Rogue
    Pressure: 6/10
    Mobility: 8/10
    Survivability: 7/10
    Burst: 10/10

  15. #15
    Pit Lord DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    DK
    Pressure: 9/10
    Mobility: 5/10
    Survivability: 8/10
    Burst: 6/10

    Hunter
    Pressure: 8/10
    Mobility: 6/10
    Survivability: 6/10
    Burst: 9/10


    Rogue
    Pressure: 6/10
    Mobility: 8/10
    Survivability: 7/10
    Burst: 10/10
    i think dk survivability is a little lower. i think rogue survivalist is higher also considering vanish. rogue pressure is higher yes but also alot harder to master and line up.

    the stupid part about this game is that everyone has buttons for everything so we all have burst. its just which one is easier to mitigate. i would vote dk is the easiest one out of those to play. but also the least viable in 3s currently.
    Last edited by DiscoGhost; 2014-05-02 at 01:18 PM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    DK
    Pressure: 9/10
    Mobility: 5/10
    Survivability: 8/10
    Burst: 6/10

    Hunter
    Pressure: 8/10
    Mobility: 6/10
    Survivability: 6/10
    Burst: 9/10


    Rogue
    Pressure: 6/10
    Mobility: 8/10
    Survivability: 7/10
    Burst: 10/10
    About dks,i would say mobility/survivability should be lower,especially survivability, for hunters all 1-2 points higher except survivability for rogues all higher except pressure,which isnt high at all,they have 10/10 burst every minute with dance but outside that,they arent that hard to handle in terms of pressure.
    Keep in mind that rogue has the highest skillcap in the game atm,in an inexperienced player they are really crappy but in the hands of a skilled player even w/o full gear can do miracles,not damage wise,because they need the top gear,but in terms of peel/cc.

  17. #17
    Actually you're right. Even with blood pres + conversion I think we can rate DK a bit lower on survivability.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Actually you're right. Even with blood pres + conversion I think we can rate DK a bit lower on survivability.
    well its a different kind of survivability, dks can break stuns and have another 2 trinkets so have more survivability in terms of that. Rogues are just very slippery but can be blown up in a stun if they don't have trinket up.

  19. #19
    I'd say this is more realistic.

    DK
    Pressure: 8/10
    Mobility: 5/10
    Survivability: 4/10
    Burst: 6/10
    CC: 2/10

    Hunter
    Pressure: 6/10
    Mobility: 9/10
    Survivability: 6/10
    Burst: 9/10
    CC: 5/10


    Rogue
    Pressure: 3/10
    Mobility: 8/10
    Survivability: 5/10
    Burst: 8/10
    CC: 10/10
    Note* Rogue burst requires SnD, trinket procs, SD and SB all up at once to be very effective. a 5cp evisc with nothing up hits for ~22k.
    Last edited by Aven Blackery; 2014-05-02 at 08:22 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aven Ballantyne View Post
    I'd say this is more realistic.

    DK
    Pressure: 8/10
    Mobility: 5/10
    Survivability: 4/10 Too low. Should be higher
    Burst: 6/10
    CC: 2/10

    Hunter
    Pressure: 6/10 Too low. They have good pressure.
    Mobility: 9/10 This is too high. Besides roar & disengage i can't think of what they have in mobility
    Survivability: 6/10
    Burst: 9/10
    CC: 5/10 Way too low. At least a 7 for them.


    Rogue
    Pressure: 3/10 At least a 4 here.
    Mobility: 8/10
    Survivability: 5/10 Too low.
    Burst: 8/10
    CC: 10/10
    Note* Rogue burst requires SnD, trinket procs, SD and SB all up at once to be very effective. a 5cp evisc with nothing up hits for ~22k.
    I think this is a bit off, to be honest, marked it in bold.

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