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  1. #1

    They continue to struggle with PvP gear

    Still they struggle. The answer is clear = normalize PvP stats. But instead they choose to keep the gear treadmill alive. Grinding is not a good thing fellas, no one wants to do it. No clue why they continue to keep that shit on life support other than just they think the gear carrot is the only reason pvpers stay subbed . Pull the plug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  2. #2
    I like the Gear treadmill, It gives me something to work towards.

    Having the same gear from the beginning to the very end of every season would be fucking horribly boring.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  3. #3
    Couldn't disagree more with OP. I love the gear treadmill just as the above poster says. I like seeing my character grow stronger and get bigger crits. If my character's gear and stats were static in pvp and I never got item upgrades or exciting new looking gear I don't think I would pvp as much as I do.

  4. #4
    Some incentive is definitely needed, not everyone plays for rating only. We want shiny new gear every season.
    Also the gear needs to stay on-par with PvE gear, else you wouldn't even be able to decently complete the newest quests/daily's.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    they think the gear carrot is the only reason pvpers stay subbed.
    While not the single reason I'd imagine for some its one of the reasons.
    Professor Johnston often said that if you didn't know history, you didn't know anything. You were a leaf that didn't know it was part of a tree. ~Michael Crichton, Timeline

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk matheney2k's Avatar
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    Amazing how every reply to the OP is a direct contradiction to his amazing 'insight' on how to handle WoW

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Still they struggle. The answer is clear = normalize PvP stats. But instead they choose to keep the gear treadmill alive. Grinding is not a good thing fellas, no one wants to do it. No clue why they continue to keep that shit on life support other than just they think the gear carrot is the only reason pvpers stay subbed . Pull the plug.
    So should the same thing happen in PvE? Just normalize it... dont grind (hope for drops) for new gear.

    Working for new gear isn't a bad thing.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  8. #8
    Blizzard is staffed with intelligent people that are fully aware of the power of the "carrot on a stick". They know the power of rewards, no matter how trivial, in encouraging further play. Look at how many people chase achievements. Even if you don't care about them, I think it is safe to say the vast majority of players still get that little flicker of contentment every time that flashy gold banner pops up at the bottom of your screen in conjunction with the "TA DAAAA!!!" sound! Gear upgrades are even more powerful, and the basis of any RPG (which WOW is still based on afterall) is developing and improving your character.

    Blizzard is a shrewd company, despite all the vitriol they gather on fan sites like this, and they know what would happen to PVP participation if they removed power (i.e. gear) rewards.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    I'm 100% against you here OP, I think it's fine^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  10. #10
    Even though most of you will still disagree with me, I probably should clarify I think getting new "shiny" gear is a positive thing, I just don't think it should have stats on it. Or if they do, new sets should just have different secondaries to change it up. Horizontal profession over vertical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Even though most of you will still disagree with me, I probably should clarify I think getting new "shiny" gear is a positive thing, I just don't think it should have stats on it. Or if they do, new sets should just have different secondaries to change it up. Horizontal profession over vertical.
    This still doesn't make sense. People that invest time should be rewarded with better gear, whether that is PvE or PvP. People that play in the current season should be ahead of the people that have past seasons gear. You wouldn't' expect someone in PvE gear from the last tier to go straight into Heroics would you?

    Yes, part of it is the design behind MMOs... constantly playing to get better, stronger items. GW2 had "shiny" gear for gaining PvP rank, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't nearly as popular as WoW PvP. Sure you could go into game play, but I personally didn't like gaining rank only to get different looking gear and got burned out after rank 20ish. I want to feel rewarded when I PvP just like when I raided I want the best loot.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    Couldn't disagree more with OP. I love the gear treadmill just as the above poster says. I like seeing my character grow stronger and get bigger crits. If my character's gear and stats were static in pvp and I never got item upgrades or exciting new looking gear I don't think I would pvp as much as I do.
    Apparently I'm in the minority and Blizzard is in fact doing it correctly to serve the majority. I just prefer having any player vs player game giving both sides equal footing, and not necessarily hate that equal ground behind weeks of gear grinding. I prefer the set up of FPS games where any noob can jump in and kill a veteran player with the starting gun. All of the upgrades are in fact side grades or cosmetic weapon skins.

    When I know that I have to sink in X amount of hours before my gear is on par with my opponent to actually have a fun match, I have no desire to participate. That's just me though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirayne24 View Post
    This still doesn't make sense. People that invest time should be rewarded with better gear, whether that is PvE or PvP. People that play in the current season should be ahead of the people that have past seasons gear. You wouldn't' expect someone in PvE gear from the last tier to go straight into Heroics would you?

    Yes, part of it is the design behind MMOs... constantly playing to get better, stronger items. GW2 had "shiny" gear for gaining PvP rank, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't nearly as popular as WoW PvP. Sure you could go into game play, but I personally didn't like gaining rank only to get different looking gear and got burned out after rank 20ish. I want to feel rewarded when I PvP just like when I raided I want the best loot.
    Of course it makes sense. In PVE it works because you're competing versus the computer. In PVP you're fighting other players. So veteran players end up with experience and skill advantage as well as a gear/numbers advantage. Just doesn't advocate a lot of accessibility to new players or players with limited time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Of course it makes sense. In PVE it works because you're competing versus the computer. In PVP you're fighting other players. So veteran players end up with experience and skill advantage as well as a gear/numbers advantage. Just doesn't advocate a lot of accessibility to new players or players with limited time.
    But that's what MMR is for. As much as I want to be a 2.4K Rogue, I don't play 3s so if I did I wouldn't expect to walk in and get the rank. I'd stay at whatever MMR I was until I invested the time to get gear/skill.

    And if it's gear, not skill holding you back, your MMR will rise until you reach the right level.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirayne24 View Post
    But that's what MMR is for. As much as I want to be a 2.4K Rogue, I don't play 3s so if I did I wouldn't expect to walk in and get the rank. I'd stay at whatever MMR I was until I invested the time to get gear/skill.

    And if it's gear, not skill holding you back, your MMR will rise until you reach the right level.
    So what if a full quest item guy goes into a BG with all conquest people. It's not just about rated stuff, in fact it's more about the casual stuff. If I'm a limited time player I'm doing skirmishes and random bgs. This is where the problem is for me. If you're in arena or rbgs, likely you're fine with a grind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    So what if a full quest item guy goes into a BG with all conquest people. It's not just about rated stuff, in fact it's more about the casual stuff. If I'm a limited time player I'm doing skirmishes and random bgs. This is where the problem is for me. If you're in arena or rbgs, likely you're fine with a grind.
    In WOD, you'll be closer than currently. Currently full quest gear is like 350k HP, but full Conquest is 550K+. I expect in WOD it'll be more like quest gear 30K, full conquest 40K or 45K.

    I see your point, but since some people, like me, only play to PvP now.. I should be rewarded, better geared than casual PVPers. Even if all I did was random, I should have better gear (honor) then a casual PvPer.

    I understand where you are coming from... but I don't think a MMO can survive without a feel of rewards (gear). Obtaining gear is its own Meta leveling game, which the majority of people are fine with, and unfortunately, since WoW is a business, they will cater to the majority.

    They had your idea with that limited time Gladiator fights, but felt that it wasn't appropriate or rewarding to those that can't make the times.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Even though most of you will still disagree with me, I probably should clarify I think getting new "shiny" gear is a positive thing, I just don't think it should have stats on it. Or if they do, new sets should just have different secondaries to change it up. Horizontal profession over vertical.
    They are putting more and more efforts to make sure that gear differences aren't too big.

    Also you have T2 gears that is purely cosmetic.

  17. #17
    The Patient
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    With the changes to PVP gear in warlords i think you'll find a bit less grind. as to your quest item guy vs conquest geared players, people expect to get lit the fuck up in quest gear. . .its just part of the game. As soon as your honor geared the difference comes down to skill because the stat difference is not that noticeable unless your playing sub-optimally against the other person, in which case you get lit the fuck up just like if you were in quest gear.

  18. #18
    High Overlord Sativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pool of the Dead View Post
    I like the Gear treadmill, It gives me something to work towards.

    Having the same gear from the beginning to the very end of every season would be fucking horribly boring.
    I disagree 100% and feel the game could do with 1 set of pvp gear used through a whole expansion
    Sativ on Youtube: Informational Guides and PvP Tips for Rogues!
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  19. #19
    If it makes you feel any better, OP, I'm fully with you. Given my time/interests, end game for me mostly consists of casual PvP. I have six 90's, with another on the way. There is absolutely no way I can devote enough time to all of them to get them fully geared to be able to compete with players running around in Prideful gear, so my choices are to either concentrate on one or two (which is frustrating because I want to play them all and get bored only playing a couple, so I eventually unsub), or play them all with inferior gear and get blown up (which is frustrating for obvious reasons, and I eventually unsub). The single reason I unsub from this game is the neverending gear treadmill, and that goes for the people I play with as well. And even if I manage to get a few of my characters in full honor sets, well then here comes the new season and I have effectively been nerfed back to 85 and have to relevel to 90 to be able to play again. It's ridiculous. I would never quit this game if they had a BG system for people like me, with no rewards (and no bots) and standardized ilevels so I could take advantage of the awesome class variety and combat this game has to offer. As it is, Blizzard basically says "no" to anyone who doesn't want to treat this game like a second job.

    I admire those people who look at the gear treadmill as a journey to something exciting. I see it as more like going to a dentist. Getting geared for the billionth time is the point of relief I'm trying to reach through all the misery.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    I like seeing my character grow stronger and get bigger crits. If my character's gear and stats were static in pvp and I never got item upgrades or exciting new looking gear I don't think I would pvp as much as I do.
    Conquest increases by certain number every week for everyone. What it means is its server that is progressing,
    not you.

    You cant progress in current system, its illusion.
    Last edited by z4x; 2014-04-30 at 11:19 PM.

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